Photohigher skyline rsgs

can someone send me a close up pic of the programming cable ( the end that goes into the skyline), I did not get one from the seller of my skyline.
is the cable proprietory or can I get one local at an RC shop? Your thoughts on that?
also it is not clear to where to plug it into the skyline for programming. seems it is the pan servo to program the skyline.

can I use a castle bec programming cable ?

ken@vipstudios.tv

The programming cable is made with a standard usb to ttl serial converter. If you use your own one it is important that it outputs 3.3V or 5V, not the full RS232 14V.

The skyline "Pan Input" is wired up as follows:
Black : GND
Red : TX (Connect to RX on your usb/serial converter)
White : RX (Connect to TX on your usb/serial converter)

Hope this helps.

Definitely needed! Disabling the pan control all together makes little sense. Having manual control over pan has no ill effects, having automatic stabilization on pan has (on some occasions). Disabling the pan (manual + automatic) sounds an overkill solution to problem introduced by pan stabilization only.

I put the pan control on simply for taking and landing, but there's no reason I can't add manual control on the pan. It may even be possible with a bit of firmware change to stabilise the pan on speed and not position which would provide manual control with a little bit of stabilisation and no spinning on the ground. You can see the effect this would have by turning all the pan gains to zero and increasing the pan speed gain to about 400 you just wont have transmitter control of the pan.
 

pixvertex

Member
Bringing back my roll issue. As said before
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...her-skyline-rsgs&p=60928&viewfull=1#post60928
and
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...her-skyline-rsgs&p=61142&viewfull=1#post61142

The Skyline shows is not horizontal when flying/moving to the side. You can see it works perfect when you stand.
Does any body have the issues. Could somebody please test this too.
I use a av130 V1 and a modified rsgs 1.1 with dummy pots

At home stable horizon

In the Air had horizon
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Can you post a screenshot of the parameters you're using? (gain window)
In fast translation my skyline slightly looses the horizon too but the amount of disalignement is zero if compared with yours.
 




Hello
haven't been able to test your parameters mainly because in sunny Italy it has been raining the whole evening but also because there is no way my skyline works with these parameters, maybe the fact that i am using hitec servos (5245) makes for a difference but if i put 600 on the roll the gimbal roll starts to shake.
Actually i have:

Tilt P: 100
Roll P: 200

Tilt vel: 101
Roll vel: 150

both (R & T) integrals are set to 5
 

Blacksails

Member
If your not able to hit the higher gains without oscillation try manually tuning the servo centres and then running auto tune. Doing this on the last few firmwares allowed me to run gains in the 6-700 range. If I manually tuned only, I couldn't run above 2-300
 


Blacksails,
thanks for the tip, i'll surely try it:tennis:
Maybe there is more to be had from the rsgs although i am already really happy with the results.
I tend to set the compensation in a conservative way but may change my mind if someone answers to "the" question:
what are the advantages of using high gains in flight?

P.S.: can't find the sheet Cedric used to share the gains....
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
John,

That's looking good mate, the next thing you must learn to do is not to correct every movement of that F550, let her drift a bit & that will help smooth out the video.

Keep at it.

Ross
 

pixvertex

Member
Hello
haven't been able to test your parameters mainly because in sunny Italy it has been raining the whole evening but also because there is no way my skyline works with these parameters, maybe the fact that i am using hitec servos (5245) makes for a difference but if i put 600 on the roll the gimbal roll starts to shake.

Let's hope today the weather will be fine ;)

About the integral gains.
They are 0 by default.
furthermore from the manual
The integral gains correct the left over error when the aircraft is
rotating. It will keep the camera more level on average but add
some overshoot when the aircraft stops rotating.

I am not rotating the aircraft. Sure i will try some higher values than 0 but still i can't see how should affect my problem.

I have written an pm to Brendan I hope he will reply soon.
 

Let's hope today the weather will be fine ;)

About the integral gains.
They are 0 by default.
furthermore from the manual


I am not rotating the aircraft. Sure i will try some higher values than 0 but still i can't see how should affect my problem.

I have written an pm to Brendan I hope he will reply soon.


I'm at a bit of a loss to explain why it works on the ground and not in the air. Are you able to do a test video with something on the multirotor in the frame so it's possible to see exactly what the roll is doing? Maybe point the camera straight up if there are clouds in the sky to act as a background reference.

Are you using a standard roll servo? Is there anything different when you fly it? How much vibration are you getting when you fly?
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Other than the issue I'm having with the Cinestar isolation mounts, I think I've finally found the sweet spot for the RSGS on my setup. I changed the orings in the iso mounts and removed a pair from each in the process, the old ones were definitely harder and less flexible than the new ones so they do deteriorate over time and should be replaced. In this case they're a year old so it looks like a new set every year may be needed. Now the issue is the hard twitching motion is gone, a combination of renewing the orings and gain tuning, only to be replaced by some subtle motion that is the AV130 and Nex 5N shaking around in the breeeze on the softer mounts. I think on a dead calm day it would likely be near as good as you can ever expect a standard servo driven mount to be and the degree of motion that remains can easily be taken out with a little software magic on the back end. I did a comparison of the most recent test video with some of the best video I was able to do without the RSGS and the difference is very noticeable, it's an order of magnitude better with the RSGS.

In my case at least I don't think it can or will get much better without swapping over to stepper motor drive and doing something about the flex and sway in the iso mounts. Now I just have to find the time to get out in the field and put it to good use!

Here's some cuts from the last test flight, raw video with no enhancements or stabilization added, when it lands you can see the AV130 shimmy a bit after the frame stops, that's the motion of the iso mounts I'm referring to...


Ken
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ken,

Nice - but it looks to have a lot of twitching going on.

Why not do a quick flight without the mount powered so we can see if the Skyline is causing it or if it is indeed the isolators + vibration ?.

I say this because you can usually get better than that even with the camera hard-mounted.
 


The integral gains correct the left over error when the aircraft is
rotating. It will keep the camera more level on average but add
some overshoot when the aircraft stops rotating.

Just thought I better clarify this as I've badly worded it and it's confusing everyone.

The integral gains corrects errors on the same axis as the rotation. Here's what should happen with and without integral gain on the tilt.

If you put a laser pointer on your gimbal pointing straight ahead and tip the gimbal back and forward without the integral gain.

When you tip the gimbal forward the laser pointer will go down and stay pointing a little low until you stop tipping the gimbal and it will return to level resulting in one down-up movement. How far it goes down depends on how fast you tip the gimbal over.

When you turn up the integral gain the following happens.

When you start tipping the gimbal forward the laser pointer til point down a bit then correct itself quickly resulting in a quick down-up movement. When you stop tipping it forward to will overshoot a bit creating another down-up movement. So it stays closer to level but has twice as much movement.


The roll effect when panning is affected most by the Set Level XY and a little by Set Level Z. It's really important the have the gyro (not necessarily the camera tray) level when using the Set Level commands. If your gimbal was tilted too far down when the set level was done. then your image will roll clock-wise while you are panning to the left on an AV200 or right on an AV130.
 

Trnquill

Member
About soft mounting the gimbal to the frame... I had pretty rigid mounting via 3mm thick triangular CF plate and some thin rubber gaskets between washers on three mounting bolts some 150mm apart. I suffered from violent oscillation of the whole hexacopter if I raised the gains to 50 or above. This was because the CF plate bent under load just a hair when the copter moved around and gimbal did it's job. Stabilization was unacceptable at those gains. What I had to do is hard mount the gimbal to the frame with two 3mm stacked CF plates and bringing the mounting points closer together (six bolts on a 50mm diameter circle). Only after that I could raise the gains to ~200-300 range where the stabilization works effectively enough. I find it hard to see how people could make things work with CineStar-type very soft mounting. Then again, my gimbal is a DIY 3-axis version which might be the root cause of my problems... :) (I doubt it, though).

I was able to use high gains on the ground even with "soft" mounting, it was only in flight when the violent oscillations occurred. Now with hard mounting the gimbal I have high gains and no oscillation what so ever. Fortunately my hex frame filters out any vibration it has and none of it makes its way to the camera. Even if the mounting is as hard as it can get.
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Before I changed the iso o-rings I did a test where I "hard mounted" the gimbal to the Cinestar by tywrapping the iso mounts so there was no movement. That did eliminate the soft twitch I'm seeing now but the hard mounting introduced other issues.

Looking at the whole thing as a systems engineer I think the bottom line is there are too many variables to make a perfect system that works flawlessly on each and every multirotor/gimbal combination that exists. Add to that the fact that servos currently available are not the ideal way to drive a gimbal with the speed and precision required and the best we can hope for is to get to a place where the results are the best that can be achieved with the hardware in use. There will ALWAYS be something unanticipated that affects the system as a whole and it will vary from platform to platform when dealing with systems that are built from parts that were not designed as a unified system but rather for a particular purpose that can be adapted to use with other manufacturers products. In my case the Cinestar isolation mounts are not the ideal mounting method for the weight of my camera and gimbal while using the RSGS, it's really as simple as that. The solution is much harder and usually not something that can be solved by making changes in the firmware, it requires looking at the problem from an engineering perspective and determining the root cause of the issue and implementing a change that fixes or at least minimizes the root cause.

If I was after absolute stability and precision using my NEX 5N I'd take a serious look at a DJI Zenmuse gimbal. Problem there is while it works fantastically well with a very specific camera and setup, it isn't very tolerant of things as simple as swapping to a different lens, it needs to be recalibrated to maintain its level of performance. For the $3500 price tag I would expect a bit more flexibility on what can and cannot be done by the user in the field so in that light I'm willing and able to deal with where my particular setup is at right now, it's far better than what I was dealing with before installing the RSGS and for the minimal cost of the Skyline it's a definite and concrete improvement. No, it's not perfect and to expect that adding a standalone stabilization system is going to make a less than optimal setup perfect is fantasy. A lot of professional and amateur photographers and videographers expect exactly that mainly because they don't really understand the capability of the platform they're using, they're coming into this from the perspective of it being a new tool to use for APV and not from the perspective of a hobbyist or engineering type that knows the platform is far from flawlessly stable and perfectly suited for professional quality APV. In terms everyone can understand multirotors for APV are still in the Ford Model A era, things have a long way to go before the performance levels will be up to Ferrari standards out of the box, in the meantime it's a matter of learning your particular system and how to tune it to the best level of performance it can achieve, and then work within its limitations and capabilities.

Ken

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Macsgrafs

Active Member
in the meantime it's a matter of learning your particular system and how to tune it to the best level of performance it can achieve, and then work within its limitations and capabilities.

Ken


The bottom line, yet so many wonder why a friends setup works & there's does not ;)

Ross
 

Top