DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
Anyone else find it interesting that Drew has not chimed in on here in a LONG time now?
XAircraft SuperX on heavy lifter
- Thread starter octocine
- Start date
No, not really interesting.:02.47-tranquillity:
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
:dread:
Maybe he's not getting his notifications. He was quick to respond to emails and has been active on other forums.
Closer, maybe, but the to the best of my knowedge, the Movi, (and the Zenmuse), both use legimate limited angle torquer drive motors, not repurposed brushless hobby motors. A Markedly different technology and *the* choice for serious gimbal systems such as aerospace applications. I keep waiting for someone else to jump on this bandwagon at the high-end of the market but it hasn't happened. I'd buy a Zenmuse in a heartbeat if it would work with non DJI flight controllers. I will probably make do with a 32 bit Alex Mos based system, just like everyone else.
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
haha! 
jfro
Aerial Fun
So what is the difference in price for a limited angle torquer drive motor vs the $70 - $300 brushless motors that are being used.
Since the brushless gimbal technology is a little over a year old now, I'm hopeful for continuing improvements.
I've never investigated actual prices for a given torque rating, but they'd be more. The requsite drive electronics and sensor suite would be higher, as well. I also feel certain that the real issue is that these devices are made to at least commercial, and up to military, standards. Not to hobby grade standards. This is their target market. Since this market is limited and has high demands the devices are produced to high standards and in limited quantities. All of which adds up to big(er) bucks. E.G. when I was working a radar sensor program, some years ago, the (spinning) gyros we used were 7500 bucks apiece. Our employer was not real crazy about you doing something stupid like drop one, for instance. Is this what Movi is using? I doubt it, but parts from farther up the ladder, for sure. The torquers in the Zenmuse come from Maxon in Switzerland, a big maker of minature motors of all sorts. Seriously, I'm not aware of any brushless hobby gimbal motors that cost $300, if so, they must be some big old honkers for Reds and the like.
yeehaanow
Member
Thanks for the info, Electro. I have been wanting to take apart the movi and see the insides, but they all have been owned by someone other than me. It was pure luck that my camera OP WON the M5 in the freefly NAB contest! After I've seen what it can do though, I wish I could take back all the hours converting and tuning my brushless gimbal and just buy one of these. So so worth it if you can make it work for you financially.
I will post some raw footage as soon as I get some time.
I will post some raw footage as soon as I get some time.
Yep, like I said, I keep hoping someone will approach this design paradigm at a lower cost level or DJI will wake up and open the Zenmuse architecture up for other controllers. I have to believe there's a market waiting for this. (Yes I realize the DJI CAN bus protocal has been hacked and one could probably code up a Zenmuse adapter, but I really don't want to take on this project.)
Last edited by a moderator:
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
I was just thinking the other day that I am surprised no one has found a way to hack the wookong or A2 to find the snippet of code required to satisfy the Zenmuse. Someone could make a pretty penny if they did it economically.
If you were to open up the inline box on the SuperX GPS assembly and Google the larger of the internal chips, you'd find that it crosses to a CanBus transceiver
We know this, the CAN bus is I2C to the outside world. Most of the protocal has been hacked, dunno about the Zen commands and attitude data, which are the two things the Zen would look for. It's a matter of someone wanting to spend some months coding this for an Atmel MCU, or whatever, and working out the bugs. It's not gonna be me.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I've been working with my 3 -MR's and 3 gimbals getting ready for a visit 12 hrs away with a friend who flies gliders. We are going to goof off and do nothing but fly for 3-4 days.
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the xAircraft on the X8 is not very good. I'm going to wait for another update and see if it gets better. If not, I'll sell the SuperX and start looking for something different. I've two quads and the x8 and don't need another MR. Maybe someday, I can try someone's hex with the SuperX and see if it handles any better. I like flying the SuperX, but I just can't keep it buttery smooth on my X8, especially in the wind. But it does stay airborne!
It's also possible that I don't have it set up as good as it could be, but after hours on the forums and countless hours tuning, I'm guessing that's not the case. Even though I'm new, I've had decent success with other builds so after spending too much time on the X8 w/ SuperX, I'm going to just fly and live with it the way it is till I find something better.
I'm testing a Pixhawk on a small quad. If I get that flying smooth, I may try that, but I'd guess that's a long way off.
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the xAircraft on the X8 is not very good. I'm going to wait for another update and see if it gets better. If not, I'll sell the SuperX and start looking for something different. I've two quads and the x8 and don't need another MR. Maybe someday, I can try someone's hex with the SuperX and see if it handles any better. I like flying the SuperX, but I just can't keep it buttery smooth on my X8, especially in the wind. But it does stay airborne!
It's also possible that I don't have it set up as good as it could be, but after hours on the forums and countless hours tuning, I'm guessing that's not the case. Even though I'm new, I've had decent success with other builds so after spending too much time on the X8 w/ SuperX, I'm going to just fly and live with it the way it is till I find something better.
I'm testing a Pixhawk on a small quad. If I get that flying smooth, I may try that, but I'd guess that's a long way off.
Last edited by a moderator:
Paraphrasing Artie Johnson, a "Veeerrry Interesting" post. I, too, have tuned endlessly on my large hex, (1000mm), and I can't get it to fly "buttery smooth" like my smaller quad, (635mm), does. (Both have the SX installed) I sort of assumed it was the motor/prop combo that was not optimal, maybe not? For one thing the IMU is dead center on the quad and offset on the hex, a factor ? Maybe not "the" factor. All I know is, the quad is an absolutely divine flyer and the hex isn't. Maybe the lack of an open PID grid or motor mix table is a factor, maybe not. I just bought a third SX for a new quad, but that won't tell me anything becuase it's a another quad. I too will try another update, if that doesn't fix it, it's A2 city for me. I can't believe the hex is all that bad, absolutely no reason it would be.
jfro
Aerial Fun
If that's meant for me, my x8 is Avroto 3515's with maytech 40amp / simonK esc's.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I've heard peeps love the quads and hex's w/ SuperX. It seemed only the x8 config that peeps have complaining about. Surprised on your hex.
I believe Mr Kloner flies heavy weight hex's (worth 10's of thousands of $$) on the SuperX or at least did till a few weeks ago when he decided to do a drop test his gh3.... Not sure what's happening there, but again, I'd heard good things on everything but the x8 config.
I believe Mr Kloner flies heavy weight hex's (worth 10's of thousands of $$) on the SuperX or at least did till a few weeks ago when he decided to do a drop test his gh3.... Not sure what's happening there, but again, I'd heard good things on everything but the x8 config.
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
Just doesnt make much sense that a quad would work but an X8 would not. The motors are at the same cardinal points so what is different other than motors spinning in the opposite directions?
i called Freefly and they said they are swamped with the Movi but are expecting to release the Synapse in late summer.
i called Freefly and they said they are swamped with the Movi but are expecting to release the Synapse in late summer.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I'm guessing they will want to make sure they are more expensive than all other product on the market. Hoping I'm wrong on the price.
mediaguru
Member
I was having the same issues with wrapping my head around how the gains worked. Like you, I assumed that the software was "tuning" and the rotary knob was "fine tuning." But as Kloner describes is the more appropriate way to think of it (and how it actually effects the craft).
Also, just a heads up: in trying to figure out all this, Anthony from Xaircraft (very quick responses and helpful) mentioned that Taranis (could be other brands too) often don't equate what superx thinks of as zero and maximum additive/reduction to the atti gain. So for instance on a rotary knob, center might be -6, full left might be -30, full right might be +106. You can adjust this within the Tx with sub-trims to get the throw correct, and that it lines up with what the SuperX wants to see. My Futaba is definitely off, and needs to be calibrated with the aux channel send.
You should be able to check this by powering up and running the gamut on the rotary knob, and then checking it against the G channel section of the log. To make life easier, you can delete the last log you ave in your SuperX when mounted as a hard drive from the log folder - that way the next round of tests will only show your latest flights/take-offs. Makes life easier. And you can rename the file as well for backup (black box will still recognize it).... makes life MUCH easier.
Good luck.
Woa wait a sec. I'm trying to solve some vibration issues with my SuperX/Zhaohun/Taranis and ran across this. I just looked at my logs and guess what? All my gains are at -18%. Might that make a difference on vibration if I get my gains set to 0%?