I was trying to get the X8/Super-X/BlackMagic rig ready for that trip, but could not get it working in time. Good reason to go back!
XAircraft SuperX on heavy lifter
- Thread starter octocine
- Start date
I was trying to get the X8/Super-X/BlackMagic rig ready for that trip, but could not get it working in time. Good reason to go back!
Hi guys,
I have been keeping up with this thread since the beginning and I had high hopes for this controller. Having two heavy lift Octos that typically have Epics or Dragons in the camera mounts I was looking for something a little more reliable than a Wookong, which I have in my primary machine, so I bought the Super X. It is super easy to program and adjust, but it flies like crap. It can be down right scary in windy conditions. Some of the comments in this thread confirm that this controller is not ready for Octo use. I can run the gains really high or low on my WK-M and it flies great. Unfortunately it is time to sell the Super X and get another Wookong. I am currently helping to setting up a Quad with the Super X. We will see how that goes.
Thanks for listening
Wayne Mann
I have been keeping up with this thread since the beginning and I had high hopes for this controller. Having two heavy lift Octos that typically have Epics or Dragons in the camera mounts I was looking for something a little more reliable than a Wookong, which I have in my primary machine, so I bought the Super X. It is super easy to program and adjust, but it flies like crap. It can be down right scary in windy conditions. Some of the comments in this thread confirm that this controller is not ready for Octo use. I can run the gains really high or low on my WK-M and it flies great. Unfortunately it is time to sell the Super X and get another Wookong. I am currently helping to setting up a Quad with the Super X. We will see how that goes.
Thanks for listening
Wayne Mann
dazzab
Member
@WayneMann - After a couple of years with the APM/Pixhawk I'm just now using a Wookong on a Skyjib coax 8 and a SuperX on a Droidworx hexa. I'm curious as to your comment about looking for something more reliable than a Wookong. I'm not really a DJI fan boy but I thought everyone considered them the 'Rolls Royce' of flight controllers. What issues have you seen with them. I haven't flown the SuperX on anything but my hex and it's flying great! I'm really impressed with the flight characteristics and how stable it sits in the wind with GPS mode on. This seems to be a bit different than other people are stating so I'd be interested to hear more about your experiences. Cheers.
I have several hundred flights on my WK-M and it has been very reliable, BUT I have had two instances where it did not boot up correctly. The second time I caught the error before take off, but the first time it happened I was flying out in the ocean off of a boat and when it took off I had no fore and aft or right and left (cyclic) control. I could climb and descend and I had yaw control. Luckily it was stabilizing the machine and we were able to get the boat into position so that I could catch the machine by hand.
On the Octo with the Super X I have tried many different prop sizes and with ten pound dead weights and five pound weight underneath the machine and it is a hand full to fly in windy weather.
Wayne Mann
On the Octo with the Super X I have tried many different prop sizes and with ten pound dead weights and five pound weight underneath the machine and it is a hand full to fly in windy weather.
Wayne Mann
I think you will find the Rolls Royce of FC's is probably MK
Check with some of those who have flown MK and all the other controllers for a number of years, from everything those people have said it sounds to me like MK is the Rolls Royce.
yeehaanow
Member
Well add me to the list now. It seems my initial tests did not have enough wind to see the effects. The other day I was flying the X8 in very turbulent and gusty winds behind a car and around trees, with the blackmagic 4k and heavy lens/ brushless gimbal. It was quite a handful, to say the least. It sent plenty of jolts down through the gimbal that will need to be corrected.
In calm weather it flies great with the same weight. I think I need to test out manual mode some more before switching to another controller, but I prefer the ATT mode way of flying anyway.
Wayne, did you fly in manual at all? Did you try the heavy props like the APC multirotor props?
The next thing I was going to try as an experiment was to set it up as a dual quad, so that each set of motors would run the same direction, splitting the motor outputs.
In calm weather it flies great with the same weight. I think I need to test out manual mode some more before switching to another controller, but I prefer the ATT mode way of flying anyway.
Wayne, did you fly in manual at all? Did you try the heavy props like the APC multirotor props?
The next thing I was going to try as an experiment was to set it up as a dual quad, so that each set of motors would run the same direction, splitting the motor outputs.
jfro
Aerial Fun
I was finally successful with my x8/ xAircraft Superx and 2 axis Alexmos gimbal & gh3. I've been fighting gimbal issues that I thought were possibly coming from flight controller, but turned out a 2nd attempt at using ferret rings worked. I've tried them before that didn't fix my problem, but this time put a more windings through the ferret ring and it worked.
I'm flying 3515 Avroto's at around 860mm with 15" tiger clone FC props. I'm around 17.5- 18 lbs with 2 axis / gh3. Will go to 16" with 5d and someday the 3rd axis.
With little wind, I'm very happy with the floating style shots. However, I get an occasional wobble when flying with a little speed. Gonna have some wind the next 2 days so will give it a go and see how it acts. That will be the better test.
For those of you using Alexmos controllers on gh3/ 5d weighted rigs, what are you doing to stabilize (not asking about post fix) your shots at mid to higher speeds? Is it in the dampening for the gimbal or maybe the Alexmos settings, assuming it's not vibrations or twitching form the X8? I tried upping my power on roll, but that introduced some vibration in the gimbal at rest. ( using 5208 iPower 150t motors on the gimbal).
My black box data is showing my vibrations are under .5, 99% of time and motor output is consistent. My prop/engine noise during flying as opposed to drifting seems to not be as smooth sounding as my Hoverfly pro did with 11 inch props and smaller motors, so not sure if that's an issue, since I don't see anything in the blak box vibration graph. The problem is fixable in post, but I'm looking to fix it while flying, just don't know if it's possible.
Since there seems to be a few SuperX users on X8 on this thread, thought this was a good place to get some opinions.
On a side note, I have a small 550mm quad with Pixhawk I'm playing with as well as well as a 650mm quad w/ 3520 KDE motors and Naza V 2. If I get some good results with the Pixhawk, I'm contemplating trying that on the X8 if I can't sort out the x8 issues. I like the x8 configuration, so trying to find a flight controller that will work for video capture. Sure would be nice to get away from stabilizing in post. Also, all 3 of my rigs now have aluminum arms. I'm tired of aligning motors on the round tubes. Have lots of fiber carbon tubes to make gimbals with!
I'm flying 3515 Avroto's at around 860mm with 15" tiger clone FC props. I'm around 17.5- 18 lbs with 2 axis / gh3. Will go to 16" with 5d and someday the 3rd axis.
With little wind, I'm very happy with the floating style shots. However, I get an occasional wobble when flying with a little speed. Gonna have some wind the next 2 days so will give it a go and see how it acts. That will be the better test.
For those of you using Alexmos controllers on gh3/ 5d weighted rigs, what are you doing to stabilize (not asking about post fix) your shots at mid to higher speeds? Is it in the dampening for the gimbal or maybe the Alexmos settings, assuming it's not vibrations or twitching form the X8? I tried upping my power on roll, but that introduced some vibration in the gimbal at rest. ( using 5208 iPower 150t motors on the gimbal).
My black box data is showing my vibrations are under .5, 99% of time and motor output is consistent. My prop/engine noise during flying as opposed to drifting seems to not be as smooth sounding as my Hoverfly pro did with 11 inch props and smaller motors, so not sure if that's an issue, since I don't see anything in the blak box vibration graph. The problem is fixable in post, but I'm looking to fix it while flying, just don't know if it's possible.
Since there seems to be a few SuperX users on X8 on this thread, thought this was a good place to get some opinions.
On a side note, I have a small 550mm quad with Pixhawk I'm playing with as well as well as a 650mm quad w/ 3520 KDE motors and Naza V 2. If I get some good results with the Pixhawk, I'm contemplating trying that on the X8 if I can't sort out the x8 issues. I like the x8 configuration, so trying to find a flight controller that will work for video capture. Sure would be nice to get away from stabilizing in post. Also, all 3 of my rigs now have aluminum arms. I'm tired of aligning motors on the round tubes. Have lots of fiber carbon tubes to make gimbals with!
yeehaanow
Member
I've never found satisfactory results with the alexmos setup during high-speed flight or windy conditions. I've tuned and tuned and tuned forever and while it might be perfect on slow moves, the turbulence it receives at high speed has always caused little bounces for me. I use a lens with image stabilization and that definitely helps a little. Soon enough I'll be flying the Movi which I think will cure just about all my gimbal woes, and allow for easy camera/ lens swaps.
I too really like the X8 layout. It's much easier to get in the car than the big octo, and it seems a lot better at descending quickly than a flat 8.
Wayne, did you try manual mode on the Super X much?
I too really like the X8 layout. It's much easier to get in the car than the big octo, and it seems a lot better at descending quickly than a flat 8.
Wayne, did you try manual mode on the Super X much?
Hi Tim,
Yes, I flew it in manual mode a couple times just to see how it felt. It wasn't hard to fly it just wasn't very stable and I had the base gains at 1.4 I am not sure how it would have been if the gains were at 1.0 or less.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
Yes, I flew it in manual mode a couple times just to see how it felt. It wasn't hard to fly it just wasn't very stable and I had the base gains at 1.4 I am not sure how it would have been if the gains were at 1.0 or less.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
I too have struggled with very small, but annoying vibrations. When I went back to Hoverfly after trying Super-X ,the vibrations were considerably less which I could tell by the reduced scaling needed in post stabilization. I'm also using a two-axis Alexmos board. If anyone figures out a way to reduce this in Alexmos settings, I'll buy the beer!
yeehaanow
Member
Not to get too far off topic, but I think that it is a fundamental problem due to the use of brushless motors that have cogging steps. I've mounted a laser pointer on my gimbal that projects on a wall 25' away, and tried to get the motion smooth while maintaining good stabilization. I could never achieve "perfect stabilization" without introducing little bumps as the motor passes each pole/cog step. The only way I found was to reduce the power significantly so that D gain is as low as possible. But then when you introduce bigger movements and wind it can't hold position well and is prone to feedback. And with a low D-gain, it has very little dampening ability for bumps.
The best results I've gotten have been on the heavier cameras that have enough inertia to smooth out the cogging steps, and are less susceptible to vibrations. Maybe try adding weight??!
I think one of the reasons the Movi has been so successful is because its motors are fundamentally different, and seem to have a constant force that has no apparent cogging steps. Plus, it uses encoders on each axis that give more accurate feedback as to where that axis is. Can you tell I'm a fan??
The best results I've gotten have been on the heavier cameras that have enough inertia to smooth out the cogging steps, and are less susceptible to vibrations. Maybe try adding weight??!
I think one of the reasons the Movi has been so successful is because its motors are fundamentally different, and seem to have a constant force that has no apparent cogging steps. Plus, it uses encoders on each axis that give more accurate feedback as to where that axis is. Can you tell I'm a fan??
jfro
Aerial Fun
Not to get too far off topic, but I
I don't think it's off topic, but it's not my thread, however, I posted my comment here because the first post is 1). Super X 2. X8 3. Fllying Characteristics/gains etc. 3. Vibrations in gimbals. 4. 20 lbs .
I think most of the peeps commenting in this thread are all trying to achieve the same thing. Can the SuperX carry 20lbs or more, get super smooth video, and have great handling characteristics in calm as well as windy conditions.
I've thought about buying the dslr version of the Movi, but I'm guessing we will see motor improvements and controller improvements which will allow our current builds to work with slight changes at a fraction of the cost. 5k is a bit steep for me.
Non the less, if it's ok with with octocine, maybe we can talk about tuning the SuperX and the gimbals. It takes both to achieve the high quality video that we all seem to be reaching for. I personally am looking for what others have done to see where the efforts should be on tuning both the SuperX and the gimbal.
I do have the 32 bit alexmos sitting on the shelf, maybe I should break that out. Trying to hold back because the flowers and trees will be blooming soon and I'd like to fly instead of spending mindless hours tweaking settings.....
yeehaanow
Member
Well, I can tell you from my experience so far, the Movi has solved all of my problems I had with the alexmos setup. I flew the same setup, X8 heavy lifter, in winds around 15mph and even though the copter was bouncing around at times, the footage is buttery smooth. The movi is so much easier to adjust for lens/ filter changes, and it didn't matter that the super X wasn't super stable. It never got to the point of being scary, it just wasn't ideal. I think I could've turned down the gains more and it would be smoother, but as long as it's not showing up in the footage I don't mind so much.
I wish it flew as well as my HFP in winds, but other than that, I really like the super X controller, especially combined with their OSD. At the end of the day, when the wind died, it was so fun to fly, and sooo smooth.
I wish it flew as well as my HFP in winds, but other than that, I really like the super X controller, especially combined with their OSD. At the end of the day, when the wind died, it was so fun to fly, and sooo smooth.
jfro
Aerial Fun
Jealous! Wish I could afford the Movi, but it's not in the cards. Hoping the new 32 bit Alexmos can up it's game a bit and get better, ie, closer to the Movi's performance.
That's great news! Any chance you could post a clip of un stabilized footage. Might have to save my pennies for a Movi.