Photohigher skyline rsgs

[Soaringclauz]

..... The key for me was not to plug in the pan INPUT, despite what the instructions say....

Same thing happening here, i just did not plug any pan plug. Maybe this was the main reason i never experienced any problems except some uncertainty at startup (the roll goes to one side but slowly gets back to a steady center after some seconds).
As you show on your video the behaviour of the unit in flight is (IMO) simply amazing, which makes me confident that, once the problems are solved, the Skyline will be a winner.

 

[jappie911]

I think mine is actually working quite good on my av-200.

I am not using a pan / 360 system, but tilt and roll do look very fine on the table, much better than over the mk system alone.

I have to fine tune it with my gh2 on it, but would like to know what exactly do the the different sliders ?

Maybe they can explain in short even before releasing the new manual / firmware, so I can start using it.

So: what's Velocity gain, and Position gain ?

 

[psionic001]

You can adjust all of the gains real time when the gimbal is powered and connected to see what they do.
I would say that velocity gain is absolute speed, slide to the right to increase travel speed
Position gain would be the ability to correct its position. The higher the gain, the quicker it reacts to find its mark. We found that anything over 60% was getting too sensitive.
That's my guess based on what we have seen when tuning this gimbal.
The tilt was much easier to tune than the roll too.

Edit: if I'm wrong, maybe someone from PH can correct me.

I think mine is actually working quite good on my av-200.

I am not using a pan / 360 system, but tilt and roll do look very fine on the table, much better than over the mk system alone.

I have to fine tune it with my gh2 on it, but would like to know what exactly do the the different sliders ?

Maybe they can explain in short even before releasing the new manual / firmware, so I can start using it.

So: what's Velocity gain, and Position gain ?

 

[1001 Copters]

Hi Jappie911, we have a deadline for the manual release and that's a very good point, just be a little patient

 

[jappie911]

Hi Jappie911, we have a deadline for the manual release and that's a very good point, just be a little patient

I will ! But I thought a bit of positive response about the skyline... they deserve.. there is potential..

 

[DucktileMedia]

Can someone explain to me WHY/HOW when using the Skyline, you would NOT need the potentiometers? There is all this confusion on whether to use them or not but arent the pots the only way the system gets feedback for actual position? Otherwise you turn this in to a stepper motor type setup. This had me confused the second I read that people were taking them out when using the gyros.

As many are upset their new toy doesnt work flawlessly out of the box, i think it's great that Photohigher is making a huge effort to remedy things AND keep us in the loop on the forum. You sure wouldnt get this from DJI or MK, thats for sure. It seems the problems with firmware changes are much more complex than just adding a few features every update. You change one thing and something else starts having issues. It's like having a car that has treated you well for many years, then you go sell it and the person who bought it complains that the engine is making funny sounds. Sometimes unexplained unfortunate things happen in life. but it sounds like we are all backed up by the mother ship.

My big question is, do I wait for the new instructions or do I give it a go without pan and follow the current instructions? I havent opened my box yet in fear of stripping servo gears.

 

[1001 Copters]

Hi Iris,

what's stabilization system ? it's a loop back function. The potentiometer is a detector. On a standard MK stabilization, the flying card request a resistor value , hte gimbal moves, and when the potentiometer gives the right value , the FC say "stop!"
With the skyline, no more need of this analogic detector: we use Gyros and acelerometers.

Gyros and accelerometers have a reference position, they send information to the servo in order to maintain this position. The skyline emulates a potentiometer signal for the servo and.. that's it

potentiometer or gyroscope is only a detector, it feed a mircochip with data and the microship send orders using these data to take decisions.


About your skyline: actually I would recommend not to use it with the software: just plug it on like indicated on the manual and try it.
if you have a good behavior, stay with it until newt week

 

[DucktileMedia]

So even if i dont update firmware i shouldnt plug into the software to tweak the gains? I have the av200 with 360.

I'm still not clear on how a gyro can get accurate postion feedback without the pots. The pot is what makes it a closed loop. You take that out and the skyline has no idea where it is, only what it told it to do. Difference between a stepper and a servo. Is Photohigher recommending to NOT use the pots? Maybe thats why the gimbal is going so crazy when you plug it in. Without the skyline, if you take the pot out, the servo will keep spinning indefinitely.

 

[psionic001]

Iris, the Skyline IS the new pot. It's three of them actually.
I removed my roll and tilt pots and threw them away so trust me, this is not a pot issue.

The Accelerometers on the skyline are the position sensors. As they know where down is, they know how to provide position with reference to down. The gyros sense rate of change of position and are responsible for helping the gimbal return to a determined position at a determined speed.....that is a very basic overview. With good firmware there should be very little drift from the tilt or roll.

The pan will be different because it has no fixed reference to work from and I believe there is no magnetometer on board to provide that reference. I think we will find that it will behave like an RC heli gyro and sense purely change of position that is not user commanded, and try and return the gimbal back to its original position. There will be pan drift when the system/firmware is enabled, but it will probably be very gradual. To the camera operator driving all three axes on a multirotor that is flying around, drift won't be noticeable unless they are not using any pan functions.

 

[1001 Copters]

Well it seems that I havn't been enought clear

You speak about closed loop so you are familiar with it. On a flying card, you agree that it works in closed loop no ?

the accelerormeter give the orientation of the vertical and the Fc give the gaz info to all the motors in order to maintain the horizontal position right ?
Where does the information come from about horizontality ? from the gyrs and accelerometers.

What are we trying to do with a gyrostabilized gimbal ? we try to maintain it horizontal. The skyline is equiped with gyros and accelerometers that give the µchip informations about ? yes horizontality
So if the skyline's accelerometers and gyros say to the skyline µchip : "hey ! we are not horizontal ! correct this please!" the Skyline will request the servo to spin until the gyros and accelero say "ok, we are good now , so stop spinning the servo "

you are totally wrong about potentiometers scope: a potentiometer is only a variable resistor. In the flying card software there is a correlation between the angle given by the gyro and the potentiometer value. For example a 10° angle is set to correspond to 2.5Kohm resistor. If you balance your copter of 10°, the flying card will request the potentiometer of the gimbal to have 2.5Kohm value: the servo will spin until the potentiometer gives a 2.5kohm value to the flying card. You see that with this setup you have on more stage than on the skyline. On the skyline, the servo will spin until the gyros says "ok we ar horizontal, so stop now)

No more need to have a variable resistance we have DIRECTLY angles ! "spin until I come back to my reference position" that's how the skyline works.

About tweaking the gains: make a test without tweaking. If you find that the compensation is good, no need to try to change it to have a potential enhancement until Photohigher release his software. If something works, why would you change it
If you are really not satisfied with the compensation so yes, plug the software and try to enhance. No need to request informations about the meaning of this or this tweaking in the software, we will let Photohigher working in serenity until next week
I would really appreciate that we let them work without sollicitating them each day

 

[DucktileMedia]

Ok, I think what confused me, since I haven't installed anything yet, is I saw a cord for roll pot so I assumed it needed that input. but i see now that it is only an output from the servo to the skyline, not from the pot to the skyline. Otherwise I would have assumed the skyline would only need 1 wire for each servo.

 

[DennyR]

I ordered one a couple of weeks ago, paid with Paypal and never heard another word from them. Is that how they do business?

 

[psionic001]

I agree. The plugs should not be labelled "Roll Pot" or "Tilt Pot" as it's very confusing.

In the context of what they do, they could be called "Roll Gyro Output" or similar.

Ok, I think what confused me, since I haven't installed anything yet, is I saw a cord for roll pot so I assumed it needed that input. but i see now that it is only an output from the servo to the skyline, not from the pot to the skyline. Otherwise I would have assumed the skyline would only need 1 wire for each servo.

 

[DennyR]

I just heard from Photo Higher and the Skyline is temporarily withdrawn from sale for a short while, they will give a new firmware on the 27th of this month and instructions. They mentioned a production delay of about a week.

 

[1001 Copters]

I ordered one a couple of weeks ago, paid with Paypal and never heard another word from them. Is that how they do business?

You order from who ? photohigher ?
ANyway, you have to know that resellers have preordered and paid the skylines 2 month ago. 320 units where produced and 160 have been destroyed in the manufacturing process.(while molding the housing). So the resellers didn't have their full batch delivered and there is a preorder list. No doubt that you are in this list.
I have made myself a list of customers with a number regarding the date when they have made the order to serve them regarding their position in this list.

Photohigher is VERY busy working on the problem and it takes a little time to answer email.
Contact me by PM with your personnal data (name and mail), I will try to contact them about your case.

Best regards,
Cédric

 

[1001 Copters]

I agree. The plugs should not be labelled "Roll Pot" or "Tilt Pot" as it's very confusing.

In the context of what they do, they could be called "Roll Gyro Output" or similar.

I think it should just be explained in the manual because on the stock servo you have two plugs: on to power the servo and give him signal and the second to connect... the potentiometer.
I will shoot a video today on how to plug the cables

 

[RancherPete]

jeyjey

 

[1001 Copters]

I have better tan a diagram

I'm currently uploading video on youtube

 

[RancherPete]

235

 

[1001 Copters]

Hi,

here's a video about how to place the cables correctly: