Hello from Western Massachusetts

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Scott- "The questions & learning continue..."

There's the old 80% of capacity rule for lipo's which translates out to 3.72 - 3.74 volts/cell or 11.6 - 11.22 volts for my 3S LiPo's and then one has the mAh's and C ratings to throw into the confusion. I mentioned that one of my Zippy batteries was suspect previously based on how it took its first charge. Well it's now more than suspect. It's a bad battery it will not take a charge, and it's last run on that battery was the shorter flight that gave me the idea of maybe I have a (1100KV) motor. I do not know. How does one really define/determine mixed flight? The other battery is performing as expected. So the mystery of the motor remains. There is no mystery about the battery. Something more to research.

As to what happens at and after 3.72 volts is a good question. I should post it.

Thanks Scott.

Jay
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
If you have questions about that battery, you should retire it, no? I don't want to read any horror stories in this thread!!!

Do you have a volt alarm on the quad? I got one of those cheap ones from HK that is not totally accurate - but seems to err on the side of caution. I can see it turn red from a decent distance, and it monitors all 3 cells individually.

I just oust finished up with HK live chat asking about the motor Kv rating. No help at all, and they sent me to the email form to see if someone else can figure it out. I'll report back when I hear in 3 days....

the only way I can figure to test the Kv is to use my RPM reader - but that would require putting the reader tape on all the motors and ramping them up to an equal throttle setting - and I'm not even sure that would work. This might be an arguement for buying better, more name brand motors. Might pay a bit more - but at least you'd know what rating they are!!!!
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Yes there is a low voltage alarm on the KK board and they provide a 2 pin JST connector pin and the alarm thingie thing, but I have yet to see clear information as to how to connect it and one has to solder it into the board, Soldering boards is definitely not one of my areas of expertise I have done it on my V911's, but I do not like doing it. I will get around to it at some point when I see a good guide and directions. They say the KK alarm is pretty decent. I am not exactly happy with my Zippy battery, CQ/reliability is not the best. That has been a complaint. They are lightweight for their mAh's and 25/35C. One battery will slow me down, but that means I'll probably be able to "now" find time to focus on some of the things that I really should be focusing on. I will try to analyze the battery with my smart charger. I think that I was a way to look at the cells. In fact during its first charge there was a problem with balance charging one of the cells if I remember. WhateverI do with that battery it will be outside.

Corey had a way of spinning the motor shafts with a power drill at a known rpm and reading the voltage off the motor leads and could figure stuff out that way. Like a generator/alternator kind of thing. I really do not know much about that stuff. I was a psychologist. :monkey:
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I've seen the technique for using the drill. In fact, I think they said the drill press would be even better for a constant speed. I could do that at the shop when the new motors arrive. I guess that would tell me if the 2 shipments are the same.

The volt alarm I was talking about costs $4 at HK and just plugs into the balance lead of your battery when flying. THIS one is local. Simple. The other thing I got was a battery tester that you can use to check each cell after a flight right there on the field (at your septic tank I guess :)
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Scott- Thank you for the lead on the low voltage alarm. Just what I could safely use. Thanks again. My cheap multimeter accompanies me in my even cheaper kind of water resistant Tx carry bag. It works. I have a new theory on the Rx reception strangeness. My antenna hangs down limply, a wet noodle so to speak. I was looking at it on the kitchen table and it was wrapped around the 4mm carbon fiber landing strut rod. If I remember correctly CF messes with antenna reception. This could explain some of what what happened I think. Thar antenna could have wrapped itself around that strut in flight. That will change. Maybe a standoff a' la' chopstick. Friends are feeling sorry for me since wifey is back in Buffalo, NY to look after her aunt who is bake in long term "care" and have invited me over for a "few" beers and pizza. I may post a bout this antenna limp noodle antenna thing later maybe. Thanks for all your help. Jay
 


M

mbowser

Member
Another good topic from you guys, a timely post. Even though I haven't flown the quad outside my bedroom yet, the three batteries I went through today messing around went south quick when the voltage dropped. I'm glad I want 50 feet up. So I ordered the following from hobbyking:http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=34120.html
They had it in their US warehouse so it should be here reasonably quick.
On the antenna issue, mine is the same wet noodle arrangement, but I did see that alot of posts with people using plastic drinking straws (the bendy kind). I may give that a whirl once I get it outside for real.
Jay, it sounds like your dialing things in pretty well; sorry about the crash, but it seems like you learned more and the quad survived pretty well.
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
So I got back and ordered another 4000mAh Zippy battery and that neat little balance plug low voltage alarm/voltage cell voltmeter gizmo from the USA warehouse thanks to you guys. It will save me the hassle of packing my multimeter around. We'll see how long the USA warehouse will take to deliver.

Matt- If you can direct me in some general direction of those posters also afflicted with the wet noodle antenna syndrome and their solutions it would be appreciated. I do not like it hanging down like it is, but in some ways I thought it would at least have a relatively open area for reception until I started to learn about antennas and had this Rx strangeness happening. With only one battery at the moment I can look at this a little more closely and not worry about battery influences.

It was not much of a crash. I was trying to land it without full control. It was weird. It was more of a skid and flip... no cartwheel... no extra points....no damage.... one hot glue "weld" separated... I was not happy about the snow getting inside the upsidedown dome, but no moisture got to the electronics. It flew afterwards without problems. That's what matters.
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
I went back and reviewed the oddcopter.com build and looked carefully at his build pictures. It appears that he just runs his Rx antenna along his aluminum boom which may negatively affect Rx signal reception. More research needed.
 


Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I think I misread the other post. Are you guys talking about the RX antenna on the craft? If so, I don't have any links - but before I came up with the infamous chopstick solution :) I had done a bunch of research. I think the key is the 90 degree separation, and keeping it as clear from interference as possible. It can be 1 up and one to the side, or a V shape - regardless, make it separate and preferably not on the arms (where most ESC power lines run).

Theres also something to do with the direction the Tx antenna faces once you have your RX set up correct. That's in the Tx manual though.

jay, I had a couple of those type tip-overs too. That's what made me start thinking the landing gear on these x650f frames was too damn high. As you've said - always going to come down with a little more force than you'd like - and then this landing gear coupled with the momentum makes for easy tip over.

As far as the batteries: from recommendations on this site and others I went with the Nano-Tech. It seems this could be one of those "best engine oil" debates, with no definitive answer in sight. I just know that I've been getting a few minutes more than Jay so far in the testing phase. They're brand new though. Also keep in mind that we aren't zipping across the field yet - so performance will vary as we get more comfortable and move from mostly hover to more "mixed" flight.
 
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jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Thanks Matt. It now appears likely that the "weirdness, strangeness" was some signal interference between Tx and Rx. I still have that bad battery. That's real; not imagined at all. It looks like I have a bad cell within that 3S, that neat little gizmo you guys alerted me to is neat tool I can use in the field to assess that kind of issue in the future. I can see the utility of those fancy tubes in some applications where space is of premium like in planes, etc. but for a quad like mine our yours and considering the size of the wet noodle a drinking straw would work if it is even needed. I think in this regard I may be more challenged (mental status-wise as well, but that's another matter) because of the metal booms, unless your booms are CF. I really do not know. There is an excellent video on antennas contained in a thread somewhere in this site simply explaining a complicated subject. Like I posted more research. Again thanks. No testing today- I'll fly over snow, not in snow with this quad. Jay
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Jay, you guys getting the snow down there??? We got some yesterday and the temp is now dropping like a stone. By early week it's supposed to be 2 degrees!!! No testing outside for me...
 

R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Motopreserve said:
Jay, you guys getting the snow down there??? We got some yesterday and the temp is now dropping like a stone. By early week it's supposed to be 2 degrees!!! No testing outside for me...
Click to expand...

Pouring rain here at the moment which is better than a raging Nor'easter IMO! You folks up in the north country can keep that arctic cold, I'm OK with the warmer temps and rain till spring... ;)

Ken
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Scott, yes it started about an hour ago. They are predicting ~2-4" here and the pending cold weather next week. Nuisance snow today. I charged up a couple of 600mAh lipo's for my little guys. I might take them out- more an issue of wind and visibility. I really do not show the 1S lipo's the same respect that I show my 2S and 3S batteries as I will leave them in a full charge state for a couple of days every now and then. So far I have not ruined any of them (yet). I will fly the little guys in cold weather. They are winterized and I can manage them as it relates to cold weather post flight stuff. I do not think I will push it with the build as to low temperature operation just because of condensation issues and the electronics post flight. Anyways I got another battery and that low voltage alarm pending so I can slow down the pace so to speak.

Today I am just researching out the antenna stuff. Maybe play with antenna placement on the quad. Maybe do something useful around the house :highly_amused:

Ken- your area scored on the last nor'easter snow event. I happen to like cold and snow (an issue of mine) We only got 6.5". I/We live (house) up in the Berkshire hills at ~1400', due to elevation and location we get uplifting effects from the coastals and clippers and lake effect snow plumes from Lake Ontario. They call our area the "Snow Basin" for a reason.
 
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M

mbowser

Member
It's snowing hard here now, 4-8 predicted tonight (YAY!). The kids are in the Gunstock ski program and we are about to head up for the afternoon and evening for skiing. Before the snow started though, conditions all lined up perfectly for my son and I to take the quad out to a pond behind the house and fire it up for the maiden outdoor voyage. I am happy to report that it was 100% a success. We (me) only landed hard one time and my son seems to have immediately dialed in his piloting skills and was zooming back and forth by the time we got to the third battery. We even strapped a cell phone to the quad and did a little aerial video (I'll share once I've uploaded it).
It is WAY less nerve racking to fly in an open area where you don't have the prospect of getting tangled in curtains or hitting the ceiling. There is still a little drift that needs to be tuned out, but it is very controllable even in current state.
Here's a video of first outdoor flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AUlyZg4Aac

-matt
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Great stuff Matt! Congratulations on the maiden voyage. Looks super smooth and stable. Pretty bold flying over the hard ice!!!
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Nice stuff Matt and son. The younger operators pick this stuff up a lot quicker than the older operators. Quicker reflexes; quicker synapses. Good for you guys.
 


R

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Indeed, we did hit the jackpot on the last storm with somewhere around a foot or so of snow followed by that blast of frigid air. Since then it warmed up and all the snow went away but that is changing as the rain turned to snow an hour or two ago and it has accumulated an inch or so of wet slush since. Figures, I have to drive a 50 mile round trip in a couple hours to pickup my wife since her car toasted a wheel bearing this week and is in the shop. Just as well, she hates driving in anything but clear and dry conditions anyway...

I usually like to get out for some FPV flight this time of year at the club field, usually I'm the only one crazy enough to be out there in the snow. Unfortunately family issues, work, and a whole lot of crappy weather has kept me from little more than short flights in the yard since before Christmas. Good time for fleet maintenance so when things improve I'll be able to just pack up and go fly, something my wife tells me to do a lot! :highly_amused:

Since we seem to be getting a fairly large concentration of multirotor pilots in the New England area I'm going to see about setting up a fun fly of some sort in the early summer, venue yet to be determined. I can easily use the large club field however since it's an AMA club, AMA membership is required to fly there. I may be able to workout a way to get a day or two worth of supplemental insurance so non-AMA pilots can fly, that's really about all the AMA charter gets us is the insurance policy that the landowner requires for us to use the field. If that doesn't pan out maybe we can find a less used piece of public land somewhere in the middle of MA where we can get together for the day and fly.

Ken
 

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