Hello from Western Massachusetts

[Motopreserve]

Jay, that's some fine work on the landing gear!!! I have gone back and forth about whether to reattach my aluminum bar mod to the landing gear. I originally did it for rigidity - but now wonder whether the "bounce" upon impact/landing is actually desirable???

I have resigned to the to the fact that I'm not going to smooth land - you are totally correct that these beasts aren't built for it. I was just pointing out that the area lower than 3' throws the controls (I'm assuming due to ground effect). Because it's not like I changed my stick controls during this section of the landing.

The only luck I've had with semi-soft landings is to pop it back up a hair when at 3' and begin to ride the effect. If you are lucky, you can sorta get used to the odd control at that height, and drift it sideways with minute throttle changes to lower it with a "bump" instead of a smack!

 

[jbrumberg]

Matt- Those crossmembers seem to be a common feature on a lot of different design setups, and they do stiffen things up. I am not going too heavily on the hot glue either. I want the gear to give not the chassis or booms. etc. I really want to avoid overly hard landings that result in "planned part failures".

Scott- I think that those "bump landings" seem to be the standard; a lot better than my hit, flip, and cartwheel maneuver.

 

[Motopreserve]

Matt, I have the same frame as you do and put some cross members onto it when I first build it. You came see them HERE. I think Jay has the right idea with the t fittings. I am going to try to adapt mine using his method. I worry that the frame needs to flex a bit to sustain hard hits. But ultimately, I think these can help away since the COG is inherently high. And mine even higher with my Japanese garden FC rig.

the he other problem with the landing gear on these frames is that it pops off easily during crashes. The open "hook" method they use has popped loose on me several times in my limited flights, and frequent crashes.

 

[mbowser]

I like the t-fittings as well, I think I'll try them as well and attempt to get them to press fit so they "break away". That way, you'll maintain the flex above a certain level, but able to sustain some minor crashes a bit better. It's hard to tell if the landing gear on these frames is designed to flex as much as they do to absorb the impact loads or if they are just cheap junk. The rest of my frame seems pretty nicely done, so I wonder if the landing gear was intended to be so flimsy. I think I am going to preemptively a few sets of landing gear in anticipation of crashes.

 

[jbrumberg]

FYI: A 4mm CF rod fits ~loosely inside a 5/16" automotive vacuum "T" connector. A 1/4" was a little too narrow for the 4mm rod.

 

[jbrumberg]

She flies and pretty well with my newest PI settings. :victorious: I just got back from a 7 minute flight testing basic hover, simple maneuvers, and auto leveling. :triumphant: At take off took the quad took the "pink board" insulation launch pad with it due to morning dew, but it dropped off (pretty neat) at 10'. Landed a really sweet landing, hardly a bounce. Really happy with my newest PI settings. I will tweak my self leveling PI a little. Wind (4 mph) did cause mild elevation changes for which which the KK board can apparently adjust. Voltage was 11.52 at the end of this flight, when I get comfortable with soldering on this board I will solder up the battery connection side of the low voltage alarm. Right now I will use the Tx count down timer. I have another battery charged and ready to go. Hopefully some video at some point. I am busy at the moment Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

So awesome to see you've gotten it up in the air and feel comfortable.

I did a few prop off tests yesterday and found one ESC to be warmer than the others - but I think that is from powering the gear - which research has shown to be common. Wasn't hot - so I'm going to assume this thing is still flight worthy and that it was the flight mode snafu that cased my latest crash.

Sunny up here today. Onwards...

 

[mbowser]

Excellent, glad to hear you made some progress. I'm curious about your voltage reading, where are you getting that from? My kk shows voltage = 0.00 on the safe screen. Is there somewhere else to see it, or is there something I have to turn on?

Also, do you mind publishing your PI settings?

 

[jbrumberg]

2nd flight ended rather abruptly rather quickly at that from about 10' when the battery cable disconnected because "somebody" :shame:was in a hurry and did not make sure the EC cable connections were secure. This one was on me big time:shame:. I did not do it for the purposes of science, but those connectors and the setup itself held up pretty well (those "T's" that did not suffer catastrophic failure). Dropped straight down vertical. It definitely got my attention. I am pretty impressed with my landing strut setup. Yes I blew out 3 connectors. That was it. No other damage. Now I do need :hororr: to come down to the "Big City" to pick up some replacement stuff- pipe insulation, electrician's tape, and some more of those "T" connectors. Live and learn. Jay:strawberry:

Matt- I get the voltage with my multimeter. One has to solder a connection to connect the KK board to the battery to get the voltage reading off the board. I am not ready for that step yet.

And I was having so much fun.:black_eyed:

 

[COMike93yj]

Excellent News Jay! Glad you got it sorted out. The POSTMAN was busy yesterday. I got some of the bullet connectors and misc other connectors from the SLOW BOAT from China finally!!!! Happy day as I can start making some wires for practice!

The USBasp programmer also came (actually on Monday)....that Ebay shipper was FAST!!!! I also got the flat tip Weller soldering tip. The pencil tip that came with it might be fine for very precise board stuff but was simply lacking in surface area for the wires I was making for my DIY Power supply.

I have given up on the HK shipment of my ESCs. If they ever DO come then so be it, however, I have written them off at this time for my needed items.

Getting nervous about setting the KK2.1 and my receiver set up.....when everything gets here I will be sure to be in much better shape

@Jay...while I am not a card carrying member of the ST club I have seen every episode and simply love science fiction. I tried to make it a point of reading all the Hugo and Nebula award winners religiously. I like David Brin, Arthur C Clarke, Asimov, Orson Scott Card, Kim Stanley Robinson...the list goes on

 

[Motopreserve]

Man, it seems we are having great weather, and even greater crashes!!!

glad to see the landing gear basically took the brunt and helped. I'm thinking I'm going to put the braces back on my quad. The bouncing it does without them is terrifying. The damn frame is just too high!

 

[jbrumberg]

Well I got everything I needed plus a few extra "T" connectors(just in case) got home got everything back together. I am starting to get really good at repair and reassembly of this landing gear rig and got the quad airborne again. This time I made really sure I had those battery cable connections secure and got another solid 7 minutes of flight and a sweet landing. I would have flown longer, but this was the battery that disconnected earlier and had some run time on it, maybe a minute maybe two. Voltage at the end of this flight was 11.33 volts. I am actually more comfortable with the auto-leveling function off at this point which is probably a function of my experience with my SYMA X1's which are 3 axis stabilized and do not have self leveling. I am pretty happy with how today worked out in the end.

FYI: Of the "T" connectors that failed 3 of 4 5/16'' connectors failed- they were vertically mounted. They took the brunt of the compression loads upon impact. None of the 3/8" "T"'s failed- they were base mounted so they did not take the compression loads on impact.

My current settings: Roll/Pitch P-gain: 80 Limit: 100 I-gain: 60 Limit: 20 Roll/Pitch Yaw P-gain: 60 I-gain: 60 Limit: 10 Self- Level P-gain: 60

Hope this helps.

Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Nice! Keep at it. I'm sure you'll have your gains all set and tweaked here soon.

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott: The way I file things "hard copy-wise" it is best that I post my settings on the internet. I do have all my RC aircraft Tx settings buried in the internet and in a "special" binder and a folder. Matt was curious about my settings so I posted them. They may be helpful to others. I definitely will be tweaking them. It will take awhile to get settings I like. Currently it's like a really similar to a much bigger, heavier and more powerful X1 in some ways with auto-leveling off (The way I now have my X1's D/R & EXP settings.). I could probably tune it in to very similar flight characteristics just through the KK board if I so chose without any Tx D/R & EXP setting changes. This KK2.0 board is user friendly. I did order a firmware upgrade thingie thing today. One of these days I will order the parts and do firmware upgrade to my Tx too.

Right now I need to practice, practice, practice to get more comfortable and to get a better handle on auto-leveling. I will try to create a "Tx SYMA X1/HAL" with flight characteristics more like this quad by pushing the EXP settings. I am already running fairly high EXP settings at -80. This may be a reason to upgrade my Tx.

 

[Motopreserve]

I definitely think it's helpful to post those settings. People in the future will be able to reference not only your starting point, but you tweaks as well, and the reasons you made them.

ive got a bounce going on when I switch to the barometer mode. But I also think there is a motor shaft bent. So I need get back to checking one thing at a time...

 

[mbowser]

Thanks Jay, sounds like you had a great day. Happy flying.

 

[jbrumberg]

Another round of fine tuning this AM. I am much happier with my new settings which also raises new questions and a really hard landing and flip which actually tested my landing gear with positive results. New settings: Roll/Pitch P-gain 60 limit 20 I-gain 60 limit 20 Yaw P- gain 60 limit 20 I-gain limit 20 Self-level P-gain 0 limit 0. There appears to be some degree of self leveling at 0, and I had stick control that I liked because today every now and then I got a little wind. What I did not like was at 6 minutes almost exactly for no apparent reason with self-leveling off it appeared that the Rx stopped receiving Tx signal consistently and got rapidly worse which resulted in a rather hard landing which flipped the quad in the snow and separated my new and improved landing rig. No damage but separation of the fixtures. and some snow got inside the upside own dome but not on any components. Snow/moisture got on the motor casings, but the motors were warm/hot at the time anything that got inside the upside down motor casings probably evaporated.. I had questions about this battery to begin with the way it took its first charge with my "smart" charger the other day. Voltage at the end of this flight was 11.22V (3.74/cell) so I was pretty low, but not really drained. Now I am wondering if I have mis-labelled HK motors and am running 1100's instead of 1000's (I will do an eCalc later.)? I ran through the KK board afterwards and other than on the RX check needing a one click adjustment on the RUD everything checked out. I have another battery charged. I need to follow up with this. Be back Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

Jay, great stuff here. Bummer about the flip but obviously all part of the learning process.

When end you mention loosing connection, do you mean it went on/off repeatedly???? I've never heard of that happening from low battery voltage, have you? That would sound more like bad connection (cables/ wires) to the RX? Or maybe range (but not likely if you were staying close for testing).

Does the KK2 have a fail safe mode? Or you Tx set up for it???

Curious us to see how you make out with the other battery.

 

[jbrumberg]

Thanks Scott. The only reason I flipped is that there is very little if any level ground here at JaysterAcres. I live on a freaking slope. My liftoff pad is s leveled plastic crate topped with a board that I periodically check for level and there is an almost level landing zone near the septic tank. That's it. Cesspool safety at its best. I use that crate/board for landing/take off's for my little guys or my deck. In warmer weather (like 40) I hang out with a lawn chair. Obviously I have no life.

Now this gets interesting. I just got back from my second flight which was a successful 6 minute flight and landing. Voltage after landing 11.47V (3.82/cell) so I was pretty low with this my considered "better" battery. I can say that I kept the quad close this time, within 15' to rule out range effects. At around 6 minutes the quad flight/control just started to get wonky. Just like when my little guys are out of charge at the end of their flight times for a given battery. I said I was going to do an eCalc on a different size (1100KV) motor. I thought of that because of what I posted over at your thread about the the "mislabelled" motor casings for the size HK motors that I had ordered. Well this is what eCalc comes up with for the motors I think that I bought 1000KV- Mixed 6.2 minutes and the possible translational mis-labelled 1100KV- Mixed 5.1 minutes. So I am not really sure about which motor that I really have, but I am sure that I am going to set my Tx timer to 6 minutes rather than 7 minutes. I still will check range... slowly with auto-level off. I need to work on auto-level settings.

We'll see.

Jay

 

[Motopreserve]

I appreciated the heads up on the HK motor mislabel. It pisses me off - because how will I know whether the ones I reordered are running on the same power???

Well, it seems like you have the level ground figured out

The reason I mentioned the reception issue is that I don't recall ever having that happen with a low battery - although I have always played it safe. But now that you mention it - I have had similar with my mini-quad. I thought that the low battery would effect motor performance only - with less juice going to the motor, it may react unlike the commands you are sending witht the sticks.

But this would be a good question for the pros...

If low battery: does the power to the Rx go on and off, or is it simply all on OR all off? Or is it a matter of low battery just not powering the motors as it should, therefore creating "wonky" flight characteristics?

The questions & learning continue...