Hello from Western Massachusetts

[jbrumberg]

Ken- Keep me posted on that flyin funfly event. I do know if I would know how to fly over any level surface larger than a bedroom floor. How much does an AMA membership cost? And are there senior or AARP discounts? I am curious, fixed income poor, but I am curious nonetheless. A really impressive signature line you have. I like it.

 

[mbowser]

Ken, definitely keep us posted, I'd love to get together and compare notes. Where are you located? We have 2 clubs in the Concord nh area and have looked into getting an ama license since we are doing some rocketry stuff as well.

 

[RTRyder]

I'm south of Boston MA, down in the Brockton area off RT 24. I used to live up on the north shore in Lowell and for a while had a camp in Bristol NH, so I'm pretty familiar with all of the territory in between those points.

There will definitely be some get togethers this season. There was a good one that was starting to grow down in Swansea Ma but unfortunately the sponsor, an avid M/R builder and pilot, passed away after a long bout with cancer this past December so I doubt that one will continue to be held. Late last fall a group from the greater Boston area got together at Larz Anderson Museum of transportation in Brookline MA for a fun fly. This is a video I did with my MK hexa at the event, conditions weren't so great for being outside that day, but they were perfect for flying APV, completely raw video out of the GoPro...

Ken

 

[jbrumberg]

Thanks for sharing Ken. I really liked your video. I saw your associates. Do we all get that "look"? :frog: Every "selfie" I see, myself included, there is this "look" :frog:. I worked in mental health all my life- I know a "look" :frog: when I see one. Looks like a nice place to fly. One thing I do have to say about driving out your way is that there is a huge difference in driving styles and practices east of I91 in MA. :hororr:

And I needed the visual relief from all the eye strain from researching out antenna information as it relates to Tx-Rx signal strength trying to figure out that intermittent flight quirkiness and for which I am posting questions all over the internet. The way it appears to me a person of very little quad build experience and technical real science formal training: A failing/failed 3S lipo may have fluctuated voltage in its death throes. The Tx-Rx polarity could have been briefly out of phase due to orientation/direction/position of the antennas. The locations of the metal chassis, metal booms, CF frames, and battery relative to the two antennas. I noticed that the Rx antenna had wrapped itself around the CF rod strut at some point. Who knows? I do not, but I am asking a lot of questions in a lot of places. Someday I'll figure it all out.

 

[Motopreserve]

Ken, that's some great, smooth video! I'd certainly be into heading south for a meetup. Still just beginning, but it would be fun (and educational) to speak to some seasoned vets.

Jay,

good or luck with the research. But I would wager that any change that removed the term "wet noodle" from your antenna setup would be beneficial. . Also anything that prevented it from self-wrapping itself would probably help too!!!

 

[jbrumberg]

I am done with my research on this. If others with more knowledge and experience can offer some explanations and advise I'll gladly take it. I read some really good accurate stuff and as is typical with internet information some questionable "expert" advise and opinion. No one has all the answers all the time. That antenna video that is available through a post here at MRF is probably one of the best basic explanations of how antennas work that is out there. I decided to "fix" my antenna in a stationary point mounted vertically and as far away from the metal booms, chassis, battery, and CF rods is as possible, and I promised the Rx that I would no longer make embarrassing references to its dipole array. Next time I fly since the Rx antenna is now essentially vertical so will the Tx's. I am now scrutinizing the charging of the "bad" battery and analyzing the charging/cell. Right now the "bad" battery is balance charging within normal limits. So I might end up with more questions about the battery, but I will gain another battery in the process.

 

[Motopreserve]

Jay, can you post a link to the antenna video please?

 

[jbrumberg]

http://vimeo.com/8826952

Scott- It took me awhile to find this link.

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks Jay! I looked but didn't find anything.

Im im now lost down the rabbit hole of researching PID tuning... Oh good grief, it never ends.

 

[jbrumberg]

This starting from 0 and working up or starting from 100 and working down to 0 was making me crazy. I finally "borrowed" someone else's final PID number's and started from there. They mumble stuff really quickly in a lot of the training videos I saw and keep seeing in review. Scott- good luck with your search of the "perfect" mix. Right now my quad will hold a brief "hands off" hover without self-leveling activated with no wind. I have more problems when I activate S-L and my S-L settings are P = 0 Limit = 0 currently. Eventually I will figure S-L out. It is a rabbit's hole; an interesting one. It can get frustrating. I am certainly not done with any aspect of tuning.

I am teaching myself how to better utilize my "smart" charger, an iCharger 106B+.

There is definitely a lot more to learn about batteries than just battery basics.

There is a lot to learn.

Good luck all of us.

 

[Motopreserve]

I'm afraid that the PID tuning for the multiwii differs from the KK2. Not sure if the concepts are similar - but the basic pitch, roll and aye versions are to get this thing acting right, and then teaching itself to react correctly when it misbehaves (or is blown by wind etc).

Then there is the PID for the altimeter which would be closer to the SL you're working on. Problem is they all interrelate. Do the forums (or manufacturer) suggest a base starting point?

THIS is pretty good basic understanding video. Not sure if you found this already. I really need to make my tuning stand so I can tweak this stuff indoors.

Keep us updated with what you find on the batteries.

We're doing well. Very well in fact....

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott- I never saw that training video- it is great. That tuning stand is amazing. It is set up for an + configuration which makes for an easier set up than an X configuration as one can attach the guy lines directly to the booms which are on one of the X-Y-Z axis lines of correction. On the X configuration the guy lines would be attaching at the midpoint on the chassis between the booms if I understand this PID concept thing correctly. I have two holes in the chassis at these points for attaching the dome. I could see attaching guylines to them. Then the whole rig would "ideally" have to be physically balanced and level at rest for testing. This would be a lot harder to do in an X configuration, but doable. And probably harder to check roll than pitch because of the way it was attached. I really do no know about the tuning stand for an "X", but the video is very helpful. I am getting close with my non-S-L settings. IMHO if I can hold a brief fingers off hover my settings are pretty balanced. I did read a post response to that video which indicated that for the KK2 board gyros to work in S-L from non S-L I would need to re-land on a "level" surface and reset level with S-L engaged. That would be a PITA, and I do not know if this is true either. I will approach this through the back door though- next time I fly I will set everything up with S-L activated and turn it off after lift off and then engage it later and see what happens. I have not done that yet.

This battery thing is strange. The "bad" battery took a "full" charge. I manually stopped the charge when each cell read 4.2 volts. The last time I "smart charged" it on auto and the charger automatically terminated charge at some point. I forgot all the reasons why, but I think one of the cells was different from the other two and the voltage was 12.6+ something. Right now that battery is still holding charge at 12.66 according to my multi-meter. I should run that battery down today for a lot of reasons and see what readings I get. So it is either some hover test in the driveway once I move out all the snow (4") with the tractor or rig up some 12 volt automotive light bulb setup and run the voltage down a bit to storage levels. From your experience, it seems to take all day for those smart chargers to run a battery down to storage.

That's the AM news. Thanks for sharing.

Jay

PS: Yes, in reality (as I define it), we are doing really well. No deaths, no serious injuries, no damages requiring questions of insurability

 

[mbowser]

I'm not 100% sure but i believe that video was done by the designer of the kk2.0 board, which probably explains why he has such an elaborate tuning jig.

 

[jbrumberg]

Matt- I think that you are right. BTW someone did ask him about the "X" configuration setup and there were no replies from him nor anyone else. I do like that tuning rig. I also really like his flight video. How much snow up your way?

 

[Motopreserve]

His tuning rig was pretty amazing - but you are correct, the X config would be tough (or at least a total PITA).

I am going to be building one from a cheap Swiffer-type mop I bought at the dollar store, and secure the handle to a 2x2" which will sit on a floor stand I make from 2x4" This will allow the quad landing gear to be attached to the mop base, which has nearly 360 degree of movement (close enough for testing). The quad will be flopping over before it's fired up, and then the motors will lift it level. I think what I'll need to figure out is how to make the mop level at first, then remove something so that the 360 articulation is free flowing for testing. The multiwii (and maybe all FCs) want the level ground at start-up.

 

[jbrumberg]

Scott- If anyone can do this you can. This will be complicated. I would think any FC would like "level" as a reference point. Or we as humans would like the FC to like level as a reference point. I am sure the FC and the quad do not care. They are probably more like cats. Feed them and they are happy. Good luck on this "all axis" flight stand. Ideally a quad could be suspended/tethered/fixed from just the top and bottom, balanced , and leveled for an "X" configuration tuning rig. It would really have to be tethered, fixed, at both the top and bottom though. I could see very bad things happening with this set up.

 

[Motopreserve]

Can't take credit for the swiffer idea - I found it HERE. In his test stand he used eleastic to keep it level - which may be the best way. I don't think the quad needs to be secured with the hinges (or whatever those things are holding the landing gear). It could be made with something making it easier to mount/remove the quad. But the idea seems solid enough - and can be made easily.

 

[jbrumberg]

I can not blame you for me looking.:friendly_wink: I do not know if I should bless you:excitementr curse you:ambivalence: I can not believe you found that post/thread. Great find. Thanks. Another example of the benefit of many eyes. Now I really have to clean out the cellar :hororr:

 

[Motopreserve]

Well, with this multiwii system there are so many things to tweak, it didn't take long to start me on the path toward a cheap tuning/testing stand. I like the challenge of getting this thing set up correctly, but there's part of me that loves the idea of a simpler FC

 

[jbrumberg]

With the less than satisfactory weather for flying and with wifey away my quad build has been a constant companion at the kitchen table, and it just was not looking quite right. Well I did a really closer examination of the motors and props and it looks like one of the shafts on one of the motors is slightly bent. I guess my last crash did the trick. It's bent similar to the way Scott's shaft bent on his motor shaft. Maybe a reason for the S-L drift stuff. I bet it probably could not now hold one of those brief "hands off" hovers anymore either if I checked. Luckily the D2830/11 1000KV's are in stock in the USA warehouse. I ordered two. We'll see.