colin guinn booted from DJI

[Tomstoy2]

define grass-roots......

Well, here I Colorado, we know you can't get good grass without taking care of the roots first!

 

[Bartman]

i thought we were maybe all supposed to go back to taking photos while standing on the ground.......take that DJI!

but seriously, i think the industry is going in exactly the opposite direction as what Yuri's talking about. Packaging of features is where this is all heading, look at what ZeroUAV is producing and DJI's making control/telemetry units combining functions into single unit products.

i don't know, i'm tired, too much snow removal today and a partial hangover from the super bowl last night.

 

[Emowillcox]

Lol Iris.... "Sky Garbage" that's a good one. I'd agree with Bart just go to your local flying field and you won't find many, if any homemade models. That's just the way the hobby has gone and looks like multicopters going the same way. Money is all it takes to get you in the air. Notice I didn't say keep you in the air (-; when I lived in LA it could be entertaining to show up at Whittier Narrows flying field after Christmas to see people out there with their new RTF toys trying to fly with no experience. Atleast with planes you have to go to a place with a runway. RTF multicopters means "Sky Garbage" can get launched from anywhere.
Back to the thread maybe Collin can get a job over at Hoverfly and get them motivated again. :frog::nevreness:

 

[ALMPilot]

I just wished I had seen the DJI forum before I bought the Phantom 2 Vision. The vision sounded so good, so many features, now the compass got messed up and the GPS won't work.

 

[Tahoe Ed]

AlmPilot, as was recommended to you before, go back to the Dealer, B&H Photo. I know that they have offered to replace or refund your purchase. I would accept what ever offer works for you.

 

[MrTommy]

Did I do it wrong too?

Some of this sounds to me like the Amateur Radio world. Use to be, you had to learn the Morse Code and build your own radios. Now, you don't need code for the first two licenses, and almost no one is building radios anymore. You buy what you want, take the test, and you're good to go.

I see here where if you bought an RTF plane (or in this case, a quad), you are somehow cheating. I'd never even heard of quads until the day I went to my local hobby shop to get some glue - and saw the owner demo'ing a Blade 180QX. I was hooked. The guy he was demo'ing for walked out empty handed. I BOUGHT IT! Somewhere along the way I heard about the Phantom 2 Vision. I had to have one. I know I'll get 'clunked' on this statement but, I really don't care how it all works. Only that it does work, and seems to be working well, for me at least.

Does this make me an outcast because I didn't somehow come up through the ranks of scratch builders before taking the plunge? I never took an interest in fixed wing aircraft. I built a gas engine helo kit about 25 years ago but never even fired it up once it was built. Saw a couple guys crash and burn theirs at a local RC airfield, and they were 'old hands'. Scared me so much I just sold it. I didn't want to lose the (then) mega-bucks I had invested.

Sorry, I just happen to LOVE my P2V, and hope it just keeps working as advertised, and as it has been so far.

I like to fly, not build. :dejection:

 

[Emowillcox]

MR Tommy....Don't get me wrong if you see me at the flying field, you will probably see me flying a store bought plane. RTF stuff helped pump new interest in to modeling. If it wasn't for RTF multicopters I bet there would be a whole lot less membership here on the forum. Just have to hope the new pilots will be responsible about how and where they fly, specially with people working on regulations.

 

[rilot]

RTF is great for the scene in general IMO for the reasons MrTommy says.
I used to fly helis years ago. Old gassers with mechanical mixing. Then I moved on to electric helis after about a decade without looking at a model but soon got bored of all the setup / messing about. I packed in the hobby altogether in 2007.
Then, last year I walked in to my local hobby store and saw a Hubsan X4 flying around. I bought one and then the rest followed on. I'm now about to do the BNUC-S and try to go pro.
Without craft such as the Phantom, I would have never got in to the hobby in the way I have. DJI may have crappy support but they have done more for this hobby by releasing cheap RTF multis that perform (and that's the important bit) than anyone else.

 

[gtranquilla]

Going with RTF or ARF is just fine for starting out..... but problems crop up immediately when DIY and hobbyists get over confident and begin modifying their MRs without the a basic understanding of the relationship between all up weight, motor speed versus torque etc. and ofcourse the affect of increased motor power on MR vibrations and their impact on the FC/IMU systems.

Some of this sounds to me like the Amateur Radio world. Use to be, you had to learn the Morse Code and build your own radios. Now, you don't need code for the first two licenses, and almost no one is building radios anymore. You buy what you want, take the test, and you're good to go.

I see here where if you bought an RTF plane (or in this case, a quad), you are somehow cheating. I'd never even heard of quads until the day I went to my local hobby shop to get some glue - and saw the owner demo'ing a Blade 180QX. I was hooked. The guy he was demo'ing for walked out empty handed. I BOUGHT IT! Somewhere along the way I heard about the Phantom 2 Vision. I had to have one. I know I'll get 'clunked' on this statement but, I really don't care how it all works. Only that it does work, and seems to be working well, for me at least.

Does this make me an outcast because I didn't somehow come up through the ranks of scratch builders before taking the plunge? I never took an interest in fixed wing aircraft. I built a gas engine helo kit about 25 years ago but never even fired it up once it was built. Saw a couple guys crash and burn theirs at a local RC airfield, and they were 'old hands'. Scared me so much I just sold it. I didn't want to lose the (then) mega-bucks I had invested.

Sorry, I just happen to LOVE my P2V, and hope it just keeps working as advertised, and as it has been so far.

I like to fly, not build. :dejection:

 

[deluge2]

Sadly, flyaways are an issue, particularly with 'intelligent' Flight Controllers that make it easier to *really* lose your craft when something goes wrong. A key question in each case is what exactly went wrong. In most cases, there's not enough information known, or at least given, to be sure.

For myself, the prototypical RTF DJI Phantom 1 that some here love to hate opened my eyes to the *reality* of me actually shooting gimbal-stabilized video from an RC craft. While I actually enjoy the technical details relating to MRs, FCs, and Lipo chargers, there are only so many hours in a day. If only DIY existed, I never would have engaged.

But survey this and other MR forums and you'll see that ARF MRs have brought a large number of pilots who do not do much, if any, homework before flying. This greatly increases the chances of a bad result. In some ways I'm surprised there aren't more reports of problems, given the popularity of ARF MRs.

Say way what you will about Colin, but his videos were of some utility, so they helped. I hope that DJI finds an alternate means to produce non-wordless video tutorials for their products.

Finally I was struck by the statement, quoted below, regarding 'a steady 30% rate of flyaways'. Please share with us how you made this calculatio. You know, what number divided by what other number? It's really a completely meaningless statistic, unless we know what the basis is. My guess is that it's a made up number, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

Steve

PS: Also, please share with us the name of that company out there that provides a superior ARF MR that is free of issues like crashing and Flyaways and that offers direct online end-support and all the other things that we all wish we had.

Are you kidding?
Do a search for DJI flyaways. There's a Phantom flyaway thread on RCGroups that's almost a year old now, and has a steady 30% rate of flyaways.
Lots of threads about non-response from DJI regarding that issue and others.
How you guys can support a company like that is beyond me.

 

[Breezemont]

Finally I was struck by the statement, quoted below, regarding 'a steady 30% rate of flyaways'. Please share with us how you made this calculatio. You know, what number divided by what other number? It's really a completely meaningless statistic, unless we know what the basis is. My guess is that it's a made up number, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

Steve

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5945

PS: Also, please share with us the name of that company out there that provides a superior ARF MR that is free of issues like crashing and Flyaways and that offers direct online end-support and all the other things that we all wish we had.

You are free to do your own research, but from what I have seen it's not DJI.

 

[gtranquilla]

The term fly-away does not seem to have a very clear definition anywhere. So think of it as a complete loss of RC control to the extent that the MR flys away until the battery power is lost and it crashes (usually beyond sight).
Others seem to suggest that partial RC control is regained at times so as to achieve a nearby hard landing or crash. In most cases "fly-away" also seems to imply that the MR remains upright throughout the remaining flight.

 

[deluge2]

Hats off to you for actually citing a specific source, might want to include info like that in the first place to add credibility to your primary point.

So you proved me wrong on the source, but it doesn't prove your larger point. It's accepted that forums reflect a biased sample in that we are more likely to search forums when we have a problem than when everything's going well.

Still looking for a solid lead on a more reliable overall experience from some other vendor. It is impressive how well DJI does, despite some obvious shortcomings in their approach to this marketplace. Maybe a useful US help center will eventually be established now that the Colin Guinness era is over.

Steve

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5945

You are free to do your own research, but from what I have seen it's not DJI.

 

[Bartman]

regarding that poll, to accept the results is also to accept the assumption that no one voted that didn't own a Phantom. that's a lot to ask for in most any open ended forums poll like that.

 

[Breezemont]

regarding that poll, to accept the results is also to accept the assumption that no one voted that didn't own a Phantom. that's a lot to ask for in most any open ended forums poll like that.

I agree that it's far from scientific, but it's a pretty good indicator of a trend.
There are threads, websites and Facebook pages specifically regarding this issue all over the place that corroborate the thread if not the poll.
I'm an old-timer in the MR game, I built my first tricopter 5 years ago with gyros. I went through the ripping apart wii controllers phase, the homemade multiwii PCB, and the the flight controller wars courtesy of OP et al. I watched all the bleeding edge pioneers pulling their hair out trying to get their multi-thousand dollar MK off the ground.
This industry pretty much came out of nowhere, thanks to the efforts of lots of people creating, inventing, and sharing what they learned.
Then DJI swooped in with their slick imaging and marketing and PROPRIETARY goods swamped the market with not only shabby product but complete neophytes in the RC game as a result of the hype. It seemed like suddenly DJI was considered the "thing", and the forums started getting swamped with DJI threads.
I knew from the get-go I wouldn't touch their overpriced stuff, but there clearly plenty of people who either don't know what's up or don't care for whatever reason. I see a lot of blind brand loyalty, there are many who will make excuses for shoddy overpriced product simply because they themselves were caught up in the hype.
Lots of MR "pilots" got into the game because DJI promised plug and play flawless technology.
Sit here, flip that, profit!
For many, that's exactly how it worked. For quite a few, that's not at all how it worked and they watched their money head home for China post haste. After following this market for 5 years, I can tell you with high confidence that the "flyaway" issue is almost exclusively a DJI issue.
If you poke around for a while, you see that DJI or their sockpuppets cruise the forums pimping their wares but never EVER get involved in helping people with their frustrations. The fact that DJI makes their stuff so proprietary means that very knowledgeable people who would be able to help, cannot. This means that DJI customers end up in this DJI bubble, where most of the time it's the blind leading the blind.
Why do I care if I wouldn't touch their stuff with a ten foot pole?
Because in the end, the MR hobby and it's potential is in a very delicate state right now, and the type of visibility that DJI has stirred up is not helping and I believe it's hurting. We're not the only ones noticing these things are everywhere, and lots of people are very unhappy about it.

 

[Bartman]

breezemont,

i typed a long response and deleted it. i wonder too about the fly-away phenomenon. as of just recently I'm flying two DJI NAZA heli's (one a V1 and the other a V2) and I'm anxious to see if it happens at some point.

back to the thread's subject and the fate of Mr. Guinn?

 

[Breezemont]

breezemont,

i typed a long response and deleted it. i wonder too about the fly-away phenomenon. as of just recently I'm flying two DJI NAZA heli's (one a V1 and the other a V2) and I'm anxious to see if it happens at some point.

back to the thread's subject and the fate of Mr. Guinn?

He's a bump in the road for DJI.
It will get settled out of court, buried and forgotten.
I feel no sympathy for either party. Dogs and their fleas comes to mind.

 

[Bartman]

yup...just keep in mind that there are going to be two paths at some point (maybe soon, maybe not) and they'll be much more defined than they are now.....hobby and commercial....once there are regulations then who notices what won't matter as much as there will be a legal framework in place.

another long post deleted....time will tell

 

[Dazusu]

I've just purchased a Phantom 2 Vision Plus, is flyaway still a major issue with these models? I might have to rethink my purchase if so...

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

I've just purchased a Phantom 2 Vision Plus, is flyaway still a major issue with these models? I might have to rethink my purchase if so...

How come you posted in this thread?

If you don't do the correct setup procedure then flyaways will always be an issue. There does seem to be quite a few reports of flyaways. I've been flying DJI for a few years and have not had any problems.