R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
~1800 or 2100 rpm?
Take free flying lessons from this guy!
- Thread starter DucktileMedia
- Start date
maxwelltub
Member
Mistakes happen to everyone, it could have been worse and hopefully he gets back at it painful as it may be. I think people are quick to jump because its an exploding market with many hack jobs out there disguised as pros. (not making that accusation right now) This happened also when DSLRs turned photographers into filmmakers, the difference was the mistakes were less dramatic. Part of this thread is people just making fun but also people trying to figure out what happened so it doesn't happen to them. To me it seems like because the bird was below the tree line in contrast to the brighter sky, it would have been easier to loose track of the pitch and the increasing speed. Seems like it was in the wrong mode and was hard if not impossible to recover by the time he realized. Also a heavy frame like this with a pendulum from the bottom is much harder to make corrections of this magnitude.
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
That sort of brings up the one thing I've learned. If I'm confused about what's going on, I simply throttle up and take my hands off the sticks. It should stabilize straight up and climb (away from the ground which is good!). The only time it won't stop and return to level, is if it was in Acro mode (not sure if this is the same as "Manual" on DJI, but it's pure rate control like a FBL helicopter). But simply put, I don't enable Acro mode on camera ships, there's ZERO need for it. So you can remove that problem from the scenario, it just can't happen.
So once it's level and climbing, then you give the stick a little poke and see what it does. Figure out which way it's going, and figure out what mode it's in and fix that.
This always works when I've had problems such as having it in simple mode when I didn't know it. Or even worse, having it in auto trim without knowing it (that's really bad!).
If I was in a GPS mode, and it does something odd, it's probably a GPS glitch. I immediately flick back to Stabilize, and fly it manually, which I'm very proficient, and EVERYBODY doing this professionally should be proficient in it. NO EXCUSES! We've seen so many examples of DJI machines crashing because they zipped off while in a GPS mode, and the pilot doesn't know how to fly manually. Actually, the worst part about DJI is that so many people don't even realize they don't know how to fly because you can spend your whole life in GPS ATTI with DJI. They don't even know what they don't know.
Now, if, upon releasing the sticks, the craft doesn't return to upright and you're not in Acro... then the flight controller is pooched and you're crashing no matter what you do.
So once it's level and climbing, then you give the stick a little poke and see what it does. Figure out which way it's going, and figure out what mode it's in and fix that.
This always works when I've had problems such as having it in simple mode when I didn't know it. Or even worse, having it in auto trim without knowing it (that's really bad!).
If I was in a GPS mode, and it does something odd, it's probably a GPS glitch. I immediately flick back to Stabilize, and fly it manually, which I'm very proficient, and EVERYBODY doing this professionally should be proficient in it. NO EXCUSES! We've seen so many examples of DJI machines crashing because they zipped off while in a GPS mode, and the pilot doesn't know how to fly manually. Actually, the worst part about DJI is that so many people don't even realize they don't know how to fly because you can spend your whole life in GPS ATTI with DJI. They don't even know what they don't know.
Now, if, upon releasing the sticks, the craft doesn't return to upright and you're not in Acro... then the flight controller is pooched and you're crashing no matter what you do.
SMP
Member
Spot on tip, that one.
Thats OK if your in GPS or Atti, but if your using the Wookong, it could be the worst thing you could do if your in manual.
If you have any pitch or roll angle on at all and you throttle up, you will just keep heading very fast in the same direction, (be it down) and not up.
You need to level up first which may notbe so easy when travelling at high speed.
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
my very experienced friend accidentally flipped into manual on his wookong and he could not control it to save his life. He has flown as long as any seasoned pilot, I watched this happen in front of my own face and was amazed how erratic the wookong was in manual mode. It is NOT like flying a SRH or a Hoverfly in manual at all. I guess you need to set the gains specifically for manual flight or atti. Either way, the woochang shouldn't even have a manual mode!
Scott Drysdale
Mixmaster
IrisAerial...... Indeed..... switching to manual mode is like holding a tiger by the tail..... don't dare to let go...... but tiring to hold on!!!
The first issue when switching to manual is a sudden increase in climb rate (some MR configurations are for some reason much worse than others).
And yet it is important to get a lot of practice flying in manual mode just in case it is your only option remaining...
But ofcourse, it is best to do all this manual flying on an MR that does not have an expensive camera attached.
As far a a need to learn to fly manual in case of a loss of one motor, there are a couple of other options..... e.g., IOC Home mode will enable you to bring it on home without regard to MR bearing which changes far too rapidly when the MR starts spinning.
As far as the original posting here is concerned.... it is easy to become over confident after a lot of successful flights and start flying in very restrictive space such that the one and only emergency landing spot becomes high risk.
The first issue when switching to manual is a sudden increase in climb rate (some MR configurations are for some reason much worse than others).
And yet it is important to get a lot of practice flying in manual mode just in case it is your only option remaining...
But ofcourse, it is best to do all this manual flying on an MR that does not have an expensive camera attached.
As far a a need to learn to fly manual in case of a loss of one motor, there are a couple of other options..... e.g., IOC Home mode will enable you to bring it on home without regard to MR bearing which changes far too rapidly when the MR starts spinning.
As far as the original posting here is concerned.... it is easy to become over confident after a lot of successful flights and start flying in very restrictive space such that the one and only emergency landing spot becomes high risk.
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
I have raw footage of the crash which I know to be from manual. it is not manageable! but it didnt climb, just rolled around like a balancing on a beach ball in a swimming pool. No one is that good, not even Denny!
If you are in control to begin with manual is actually not so bad, but its a different ball game if you are out of control and have to switch to manual as everything has to be done in a split second (especially when you are flying upside down
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
no this was different. it was in atti, at the last minute he kneeled down to check something on the camera and accidentally switched it into manual. So he took off in manual and it hovered for a second but it just got progressively more and more unstable until it flipped upside down. there is NO way it was his fault other than it being in manual to begin with.
Carapau
Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
Flying in manual on the WKM is not that bad at all. I regularly fly my SRH using the VBAR at its most responsive setting and I find my Skjib flies very similarly in manual which compared to Atti or GPS is like holding a tiger by the tail as mentioned before. But, having flown some highly responsive SRHs I can happily deal with a manual flight no probs. With that said, I just don't fly manual as a rule as the risk of orientation loss on a multi is too great as are the repair costs. I also find there is no real need to fly in manual. I do start my first flight of the day in manual just to make sure the WKM is functioning properly in its most basic state before I up the complexity of the system by moving to Atti or GPS.
DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
I have to defend my friend again. After it crashed he flew the Trex700 back up, no auto anything, and everything went fine. So i guess the wookong just barfed? Either way, you're not getting me to show up with a wookong on a job.
maxwelltub
Member
It was a naza.
Earl E Adobtr
Paul
NAZA M2 in manual needs switched-in expo, that's all. Most don't bother to tune in manual which is something NAZA does not make clear in their manual. Not that anyone is reading instructions. I had to stop someone at our flying field trying to fly NAZA M GPS first time without calibrating. It was all over the place - luckily he crashed away from other flyers. Don't think the foamie guys were too happy tho. They barely tolerate us out there as it is. It's only a matter of time before we're all grounded unless this thing is controlled. AMA seems to be, just now, waking up. FAA is still hammering out their regs. Hope it all sorts out OK. I'm sure a lot more picky where I fly than I was a few years ago.
maxwelltub
Member
Is it possibly a spectrum radio issue? I never had a problem but there is buzz around of other people making complaints about spectrum and DJI. I actually use a futaba now anyway so i've been kind of tuning it out.
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
Why do people put up with this?
This is important. It's not clear in the manual but it's quite obvious how different DJI FC's (naza or wkm) react to stick inputs between atti/gps and manual. I've taken off several times in manual without wanting to and the copter is much more sensitive to stick inputs. But you are saying it's possible to have different expo in Manaul vs. Atti? It would be cool if you could elaborate on the programming. And if you tune in manual, does it fly similarly while in ATTI?
The other scary thing is that with ATTI the copter takes off and hovers at 50% throttle, but if switched to Manual it can descend/ascend rapidly depending on what the actual throttle required to hover is. If you are at 65% percent of throttle to hover in manual, not uncommon, but take off in ATTI and switch to manual you will using 15% less throttle then is required to stay in a hover.
Earl E Adobtr
Paul
Well, since this is still HF thread, I'll just say read your transmitter manual to set "dual rate (or triple rate) exp curves". Then test, test, test. HF manual and D/R.EXP works very well. NAZA less so, but DOES make it controllable in a "switch to manual" emergency where it otherwise wouldn't be.