Photohigher skyline rsgs

iceman

iceman

Member
Tuukkuli said:
Pan system: I zeroed all gains and did the pan center tune without the gimbal attached to the copter and found the center tune i.e. the servo stopped rotating. Saved it. After that I adjusted pan position gain to 100 and pan velocity gain to 60. Attached pan input and pan servo cables to reveiver and servo.

After connecting power, the pan servo started rotating quite fast. (gimbal was still not attached to copter) Once I tipped my aileron stick to the other direction - pan input was connected to aileron channel - the direction of rotation changed but the speed remained the same.

After this I connected the pan servo directly to aileron channel on the receiver. Once again the pan servo started to rotate but I managed to stop rotating with subtrim. Pretty much was needed. -51 on Futaba T8FG. Pan was really sensitive so I used minus expo as much as possible (-100 both ways) to smoothen the start of the pan movement out.

Is the pan even planned to be plugged into Skyline with the present 1.2.2 firmware or should it be plugged into the receiver like I did? Have I done everything correct with the pan setup or is there something to improve?
Click to expand...

I had this problem even when suspending the frame from the ground, it doesn’t help that Photohigher don’t say if you need the resistors plugged in like you do with tilt and roll so I added the variable pot that came with the original servo and re-connected that. After a small adjustment it stopped the rotation of the pan servo however for me it was still not a workable solution as there was terrible jitter in the pan axis with small left/right yaw. I have been told this is due to the dead band of the original servo and need to upgrade but I have removed the pan for now as it was also imparting general instability (jitters in all axis).
 


R

rcmike

Member
mounirz said:
rcmike. i have the same thing. did hundreds of tests and now my gimbal is at its best. the phenomena you are talking about is very clear to a keen eye and it is not related to how much you increase the gain nor any other value in the software. i personally believe and i am positive of this thing that it is a limitation from the software. what it does is when the gimbal is stationary and you move it just a degree in one direction you can clearly see that it waits for a while before it starts correcting. when going in one direction and you stop and start going back in the other direction. it stops very well and tuning that actually works. but when you are moving back to the other direction it takes this fraction of a degree before it starts correcting.
i bet that PH programmers had put this slight delay to eliminate jitter issues. but this created other issues in stabilization......
i have posted a video earlier to show this phenomena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzkQtQc0cFE
again its not a balance issue
nothing is binding on all axis !!!!
belts are tight
belts are aligned perfectly and are not binding
spent days playing with gains and everything
tried V1.2.2 V1.6 & V1.7b same thing ......

if only PH can fix this problem for me i will have the best gimbal out there im soooo close and i would not have to go for any other product in the market.

where are you PH ????
Click to expand...

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. There is a very slight delay before the gimbal starts to correct. Your video looks just like mine does.
 

Blacksails

Blacksails

Member
Blacksails said:
Thank you, Mike. Much appreciated.
I will give it another go later this evening and report back.

Alex
Click to expand...

Although still not perfect, I have managed to get the roll issue when tilting / panning pretty much sorted. I took the skyline off of the gimbal and set the levels up against a square, as you suggested. I still get the roll problem, but only by 1-2 degrees rather than the huge amount I was getting before. Thank you, Mike!

I have my gains set at 170 for pan, roll & tilt and see very very slight shaking/bumpiness to the footage, even in calm conditions. If I deactivate the gimbal this shakiness is gone. Are the gains still too high? Pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect.
The props, hubs and motors are all balanced so its not a vibe issue. Again, this is an issue I've always had and its been easy to remove with very minimal post stabilisation, but just wondering if it can be improved on. Afraid that if I lower the gains any more that it will be slow to correct
 

F

fabio5479

New Member
Blacksails said:
Although still not perfect, I have managed to get the roll issue when tilting / panning pretty much sorted. I took the skyline off of the gimbal and set the levels up against a square, as you suggested. I still get the roll problem, but only by 1-2 degrees rather than the huge amount I was getting before. Thank you, Mike!

I have my gains set at 170 for pan, roll & tilt and see very very slight shaking/bumpiness to the footage, even in calm conditions. If I deactivate the gimbal this shakiness is gone. Are the gains still too high? Pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect.
The props, hubs and motors are all balanced so its not a vibe issue. Again, this is an issue I've always had and its been easy to remove with very minimal post stabilisation, but just wondering if it can be improved on. Afraid that if I lower the gains any more that it will be slow to correct
Click to expand...

I have exactly the same problem, using an AV-200 gimbal. What i manage to discover is a poor connection between roll gear and the golden plate with teeth. I tried to apply some glue on roll gear (of course i waited until it was dry before using the roll gear), and it solved the problem for few days (without jitters on roll movements). After few flights, the glue was broken by the golden plate, and jitters started again. I would suggest that we need a better roll gear.
Fabio
 

iceman

iceman

Member
Blacksails said:
Although still not perfect, I have managed to get the roll issue when tilting / panning pretty much sorted. I took the skyline off of the gimbal and set the levels up against a square, as you suggested. I still get the roll problem, but only by 1-2 degrees rather than the huge amount I was getting before. Thank you, Mike!

I have my gains set at 170 for pan, roll & tilt and see very very slight shaking/bumpiness to the footage, even in calm conditions. If I deactivate the gimbal this shakiness is gone. Are the gains still too high? Pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect.
The props, hubs and motors are all balanced so its not a vibe issue. Again, this is an issue I've always had and its been easy to remove with very minimal post stabilisation, but just wondering if it can be improved on. Afraid that if I lower the gains any more that it will be slow to correct
Click to expand...


Same problem here, jitters (mainly in tilit) using RSGS, no jitters when deactivated or using WKM as gimbal stabi. Would love to know the answer if any one is using an AV200?
 

M

MikeH

Member
Glad to hear it is alot better, yeah it sounds like your tilt gains are to high. With the av200 the roll gain will always be higher than the rest simply because of the gear ratio, so maybe drop the tilt down slightly. My pan gains sit way down at 40 and it is perfect! we fly with a fs700 so that just goes to show how different the gains can be.
Also if tilt is jittering and gains aren't helping then make sure the screws in the tilt tray are tight but not to tight, the tray should fall freely under its own weight and even swing a couple of times max.

Normally Jitter will only be caused by A- Gains to high or B- gimbal setup problem or C- the camera is unbalanced

With regards to the roll gear, i wouldn't have thought that you would have to use glue....... you can have that servo set to tight and it will cause issues with the skyline and to loose which will also cause issues. You have to ensure that the roll is free to spin, no binding, and that the servo gear is meshing with the roll gear nicely. You should have the servo tight enough the you can move the roll cage slightly and see the servo gear move. If the roll cage moves and the servo gear doesnt it will need tightening.

The new manual has now been sent through to photohigher for there approval, then i will add the videos and it should be released. Hopefully won't be far away now!

Mike


Blacksails said:
Although still not perfect, I have managed to get the roll issue when tilting / panning pretty much sorted. I took the skyline off of the gimbal and set the levels up against a square, as you suggested. I still get the roll problem, but only by 1-2 degrees rather than the huge amount I was getting before. Thank you, Mike!

I have my gains set at 170 for pan, roll & tilt and see very very slight shaking/bumpiness to the footage, even in calm conditions. If I deactivate the gimbal this shakiness is gone. Are the gains still too high? Pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect.
The props, hubs and motors are all balanced so its not a vibe issue. Again, this is an issue I've always had and its been easy to remove with very minimal post stabilisation, but just wondering if it can be improved on. Afraid that if I lower the gains any more that it will be slow to correct
Click to expand...
 

fabietto_91

fabietto_91

Member
Hi everyone.

Here you can see my test of skyline 1.7beta (with av130gimbal).


I noticed slight roll drift at the end of flight.. But reasonable.
The only real problem is the tilt jitter with long body camera (such as sony cx730 or panasonic x900) to avoid the jitter i have to reduce position and velocity gains around 90. (the cam is balanced and tray is slightly frictioned by adhesive grease)
In fact, with compact camera such sony hx9v, i can raise tilt gain abut at 350, and the stabilization in this case is a lot more effective...
In my opinion, tilt jitter is caused also by the play in the savox servo gear.. (all of my brand new savox servo have this little gear play)

Anyone tried higher gear ration on tilt?
av200 tilt gear is too big for av130?

Thanks. :nevreness:

Fabio
 
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V

vip

Member
fabietto_91 said:
Hi everyone.

Here you can see my test of skyline 1.7beta (with av130gimbal).


I noticed slight roll drift at the end of flight.. But reasonable.
The only real problem is the tilt jitter with long body camera (such as sony cx730 or panasonic x900) to avoid the jitter i have to reduce position and velocity gains around 90. (the cam is balanced and tray is slightly frictioned by adhesive grease)
In fact, with compact camera such sony hx9v, i can raise tilt gain abut at 350, and the stabilization in this case is a lot more effective...
In my opinion, tilt jitter is caused also by the play in the savox servo gear.. (all of my brand new savox servo have this little gear play)

Anyone tried higher gear ration on tilt?
av200 tilt gear is too big for av130?

Thanks. :nevreness:

Fabio
Click to expand...

nice job on your set up.. looks pretty darn good.
 
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M

MikeH

Member
fabietto_91 said:
Hi everyone.

Here you can see my test of skyline 1.7beta (with av130gimbal).


I noticed slight roll drift at the end of flight.. But reasonable.
The only real problem is the tilt jitter with long body camera (such as sony cx730 or panasonic x900) to avoid the jitter i have to reduce position and velocity gains around 90. (the cam is balanced and tray is slightly frictioned by adhesive grease)
In fact, with compact camera such sony hx9v, i can raise tilt gain abut at 350, and the stabilization in this case is a lot more effective...
In my opinion, tilt jitter is caused also by the play in the savox servo gear.. (all of my brand new savox servo have this little gear play)

Anyone tried higher gear ration on tilt?
av200 tilt gear is too big for av130?

Thanks. :nevreness:

Fabio
Click to expand...

The jitter will be caused by the gains. When using a longer lens you definitely have to decrease the gains. It is the same as using a different camera, Basically the skyline is setup for a set weight and balance and if you change then the gains have to change.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fabietto_91

fabietto_91

Member
vip said:
nice job on your set up.. looks pretty darn good.
Click to expand...

Tuukkuli said:
Yes, great footage indeed! Can you kindly share camera and gain setting details fabietto?
Click to expand...

Hi, vip & Tuukkuli, I'm glad you like it.
The camera is a Panasonic hc x900, but I prefer sony cx730 because the optical stabilization is better...
as for the setup, i use av 130, with tilt trail slight frictioned with grease. the rsgs is v1.7beta, and gains is:

TILT:
position 160
velocity 170
integral 0

ROLL:
position 380
velocity 400
integral 0


MikeH said:
The jitter will be caused by the gains. When using a longer lens you definitely have to decrease the gains. It is the same as using a different camera, Basically the skyline is setup for a set weight and balance and if you change then the gains have to change.
Click to expand...

Thank you for reply. I know that if i decrease the gains, the jitter will end.
but with this lower gains, stabilization isn't too effective.... good, but could be better.
I'll try a new pinion gear for tilt... (to reach 5:1 gear ratio)
 

SMP

SMP

Member
Blacksails said:
I had this problem with the Av200 for quite a while. Jittering when coming back to level on the tilt tray. Turned out being the screw that locks the tray to the tilt pulley (not the screw that it rotates on, the one below it) was too tight. Also the axle the single screw on the opposite side. When I loosened these off a bit the jittering vanished
Click to expand...

YUP! That was the issue, single screw side was WAYYYYYYYYY over tightened from factory. Backed both sides off issue resolved, thx blacksail!!
 

M

MikeH

Member
fabietto_91 said:
Hi, vip & Tuukkuli, I'm glad you like it.
The camera is a Panasonic hc x900, but I prefer sony cx730 because the optical stabilization is better...
as for the setup, i use av 130, with tilt trail slight frictioned with grease. the rsgs is v1.7beta, and gains is:

TILT:
position 160
velocity 170
integral 0

ROLL:
position 380
velocity 400
integral 0




Thank you for reply. I know that if i decrease the gains, the jitter will end.
but with this lower gains, stabilization isn't too effective.... good, but could be better.
I'll try a new pinion gear for tilt... (to reach 5:1 gear ratio)
Click to expand...

Wow I'm suprised at your velocity gains, they are huge!! Photohigher recommend 60 to 80 on velocity. With velocity higher than position that may cause your jitter issues. Maybe try dropping them, then retuning with optical stab off. That way when you turn it on it will be buttery smooth :)
Feel free to try a new gear, it may help. Keep us informed about it if you do :)

Good Luck
Mike
 

T

TheEngineer

Member
Hi guys,

I follow this thread from page 1 to 140+ and gave up..
Ha ok, I got the AV200 and RSGS and only manage to set it up recently.

The AV200 is fitted with Pan 360 skid and the perculiar problem faced by some is also faced by me, the Pan rotates when seated on level ground.
This is annoying.. The same levelling, and when we lift it off the ground, the pan stop rotating.

I have tried mounting the RSGS with vibra tape, no improvement. So in our extreme desperation, we have our Octo lifted off, then turn on the RSGS when the Octo is hovering.. dangerous you would say.

Meanwhile, we tune the gain with Tilt 205 and roll 200. Pan IIRC is 150.
This is the result.. with oscillation I think on the tilt.. not observable on the bench tuning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ5dBXx7jrY
(Pardon the swift pan actions causing motion blur.. due to small flight area we have on the top of a multi storey carpark we have to swing to the area of capture as fast as we could).

We have since reduced the gain to 180/180/150 and gone on to shoot some video which we will see later (CF card with someone else..)

You will also hear the Pan servo rotating sound at the end of the clip when the multi landed and shadow of the Octo rotating..
 
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I

iscorama

Member
Im sure it's in the manual because I saw it there... You should put the AUX cable from skylines wire harness into free channel on rx and assign that channel to 3way switch on your transmitter
 



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