Photohigher AV200 PRO, Video Vibrations ?

[jes1111]

Okay - sorry I misunderstood. I've managed to watch the videos on my laptop - don't know why my desktop wouldn't let me.

That wobbling action when you tap the lens - it must have an "origin point". What is moving (and what is not moving)? Is the camera moving relative to the bottom plate? Is the bottom plate moving relative to the side arms? Is the bottom plate entirely flat or was it distorted in the crash?

btw, not sure I would trust a camera being held on with a nylon screw!

 

[Bartman]

i noticed the nylon screw too Jes, it should probably be replaced with steel and a lockwasher so the camera can be secured better to the plate.

@boris, how sure are you that the movement you're trying to resolve wasn't there before the crash?

 

[BorisS]

Hi guys on my way to the hardware shop to get a different attachment instead of the Nylon Screw. I am also getting a big washer since in my eyes the origin is in the gimbal metal itself. The arms of the Roll Axis don't swing or vibrate its only the X axis and the gimbal itself. Even if I hold both sides of the Axis X gimbal stiff and let someone slightly touch the lens the whole camera will swing and wobble. The whole effect has nothing to do with the servo or the poti. Only with the alu gimbal not being stiff enough. To tell the truth. I picked up the kopter 4 weeks ago from an RTF dealer. We did a test flight with my camera and i remember slight wobbles. I didnt say anything and there is no excuse except me being an idiot hung over from the night before and arriving after a 4 hour ride, feeling the fear coming up in me he is not going to ask me to fly the thing in front of him I hope.

Of coarse i mentioned my crash and the PH being bent, after the crash happened. My request to him (RTF guy) why i am getting the wobbles are now considered to be an after effect of the crash of coarse. But to tell the truth, it has nothing to do with it. If i would hang up the Alu gimbal to two screws on a different construction than the PH itself, i am sure i would get the same effect. The only argument could be that the gimbal and the material itself lost integrity do to the crash, but to be honest the gimbal was never effected. Only the Arms of the Roll axis were slightly bent and than bent back and the roll axis is working with not hick-ups and running smooth.

Thanks

Boris

 

[BorisS]

I have the same thread going in the german MK Forum and I have three people now reporting of the same issue or similar one of them being a user in this forum who i am communicating to over PM. All about the x axis not giving them enough stability or wobbles in the movement. They all seem to have bought the PH recently which is strange. My intention is not to start a PH bashing just want to mention it and maybe there was a material change to the recent production line. It would also be so good if there would be a spare parts/ build doumentation of the mount just to check if i lost or forgot to reassemble a part. I have seen in several forums from dealers and endusers that parts were missing and PH send them afterwards. I as an end user don't have the knowledge if something is missing.

 

[BorisS]

guys can you check please on your AV 200 or 130 or 100 If this is normal, Video:

There must be a part missing or ? Plastic Washer etc. ? I didnt notice this before i am a little embarrassed

[video]http://sprealinvest.at/missing.MOV[/video]

Using a different screw big small washers a combo of washers didnt change anything.

 

[jes1111]

If you haven't already found out - the thread you need is 1/4 inch Whitworth. The depth into the camera's baseplate should be no more than 6mm, so in terms of length you need the thickness of the plate plus 6mm.

But - you also seem to have identified the source of the problem. It makes sense, looking at pictures of that mount - the slots cut into it are pretty, but IMO they are not well thought out - the "stiffness" that you will experience in the mounting between the camera and the plate is only the width of two, maybe three, of those "strips". No wonder it's wobbling! To correct the problem, I'd get a piece of G10/FR4 (1.5-2mm) or CF(1-1.5mm) that's about the size of the flat area of the gimbal's plate (a bit smaller all around). Mark and drill a clearance hole in it in the right position, then apply it from under the plate so the mounting screw passes through it first, then through the gimbal plate and into the camera. That should kill any flex.

Since your baseplate will now be thicker, you should be able to use one of these: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_produktanzeige.asp?nr=6460 - it's a German product should be available in any camera store. The length may be slightly too long, in which case you can just stack a washer under it.

 

[Droider]

There must be a part missing or ? Plastic Washer etc. ? I didnt notice this before i am a little embarrassed

There is something missing as mine does not do that.. I just checked

 

[BorisS]

ok i just placed a plastic washer between the gimbal and the ball-bearing ( I hope that the correct english word ). The Gimbal got a lot stiffer. Like shown in the video http://sprealinvest.at/missing.MOV this amount of play is gone. Jes111 japp I will also support the plate. I heard from someone that Kim Atwell is actually suggesting this as a fix who are experiencing the flex in the bottom plate. I would have preferred that its not only suggested but a plate would be send out to those have the problem. If this connection of the gimbal to the ball-bearing is really originally like in my video than there might be some design fault. But i am sure that i am just missing a part.

Would be great to have a CAD file of the plate so I can just send a request to a cnc guy. Of the measure it

Lets see after the next test flight if things have become better

Thanks

Boris

 

[BorisS]

ah thanks Dave didnt see your answer ! now i am reassured

 

[Droider]

Hi Boris.. I have requested a exploded view and a parts list from PH.. unfortunately there is nothing I can find on the web site. Dont hold your breath coz they seem so laid back down there that nowt happens to quickly.. shame really

Dave

PS do you want me to strip mine down bit by bit so you can see what you have lost or need to rearrange?

 

[BorisS]

ah and I finally caught the spasm attack effect on film. Like said the mount is straight. I let the FC calibrate and everything on the graupner is neutral. It calibrates gets it spasm attack and than goes slowly to its neutral position.No big deal, but if i have an bigger lens on it, that hits the ground and i can readjust the mount again. It also cant be good for the servos.

http://sprealinvest.at/sattack.MOV

But thanks for all the help and suggestions i see some light !

 

[BorisS]

Dave, nah i dont want you to have any hassle ! I just send the video to the RTF dealer and asked him for an explanation. He normally gets back to me in a couple hours . If he dosent or cant answer the question it would be cool if you can just take a foto of the left part of the mount were the gimbal is attached. But i will get back to you on this.

Thanks !!!!

 

[BorisS]

and thanks for requesting the partslist, it will be helpful to all newbie PH owners who have troubles with it !!
I am also going to ask them for a CAD drawing of the gimbal plate maybe they will send me one. Making it easier to get an extra plate for stabilizing the flex.

 

[jes1111]

The reinforcing plate doesn't need to be an exact shape - just so long as it is 1) stiff and 2) extends at least to the edge area where there are no slots. Stiffness is the most important.

 

[Bartman]

regarding the camera's CG with the larger lenses, it's been my experience that if I relocate the camera aft on the mount to help it balance better it then swings up when it pivots forward and hits the frame. my MKTR is like this and it strikes me as a bit disingenuous when vendors say their stuff fits such and such when it barely does. maybe Boris' AV is like that as well.
MKTR has since moved on to larger camera mounts so maybe that's their attempt to remedy things.
rant off.
bart

 

[jes1111]

Bart - I'm convinced that this whole "underslung gimbal" approach (with its many limitations) will eventually fade away as "first generation". With a bit more thought/work you can locate a (better designed) gimbal in a much more sensible/workable position (within the plane of the arms) and reap the many benefits. The multirotor boom started because the simple "X" shape is easy/cheap to make/repair. What's the sense of hanging a $900 gimbal under a $60 frame (even if it's a $60 frame made out of $600 materials)? The simple underslung approach is fine for GoPro stuff, but serious photographers should be clamouring for something better.

As a side note to that - you know that old expression "If you've only got a hammer then everything looks like a nail"? I reckon the new version is "If you've only got a gantry CNC machine, everything can be made out of flat sheet."

Watch this space...

 

[Bartman]

Bart - I'm convinced that this whole "underslung gimbal" approach (with its many limitations) will eventually fade away as "first generation". With a bit more thought/work you can locate a (better designed) gimbal in a much more sensible/workable position (within the plane of the arms) and reap the many benefits. The multirotor boom started because the simple "X" shape is easy/cheap to make/repair. What's the sense of hanging a $900 gimbal under a $60 frame (even if it's a $60 frame made out of $600 materials)? The simple underslung approach is fine for GoPro stuff, but serious photographers should be clamouring for something better.

As a side note to that - you know that old expression "If you only got a hammer then everything looks like a nail"? I reckon the new version is "If you've only got a gantry CNC machine, everything can be made out of flat sheet."

Watch this space...

i couldn't agree more.

 

[baker2055]

very interesting!

 

[Droider]

ah and I finally caught the spasm attack effect on film. Like said the mount is straight. I let the FC calibrate and everything on the graupner is neutral. It calibrates gets it spasm attack and than goes slowly to its neutral position.No big deal, but if i have an bigger lens on it, that hits the ground and i can readjust the mount again. It also cant be good for the servos.

Boris ..mine will also do that IF I hold the calibration position for more than three sets of beeps.. You should let go of the stick after the first 3 beeps (3beeps beginner mode) at it has calibrated.

Dave

 

[BorisS]

haha okay that explains why it only happens from time to time thanks ! have a better feeling now putting the bigger lens on now !
Out for a flight later today lets see if the missing washer and the metal camera screw plus big washers to stiffen the gimbal make a difference.