Mikrokopter MK Firmware 0.88 online now

[Mactadpole]

Thanks for posting that Shawn

I always thought the PH log-in time was the minimun time to log new position - I guess thats why it wasn't working the way I thought it should, at least I know now

So basically the copter will not return to the original position if the Nick/Roll stick is moved wheather dynamic PH is on or off.

After reading that it looks like the only advantage of Dynamic PH is that its more accurate in windy conditions, is there any other advantage in using Dynamic PH?

Thanks,
Craig

I think the copter will return to the original position with Dynamic PH off (not selected) when you have not been at the new position beyond the Position Hold Login Time.

Example:

Positon Hold Login Time set to 5 seconds and Dynamic PH off (not selected). You are flying and have position hold on. You fly to a new position and let go of the stick after remaining there less than 5 seconds it will return to the original position. You again move to a new position and remain there longer than 5 seconds before centering the stick and it will hold at the new position.

With Dynamic PH on the Position Hold Login Time has no affect. You are flying and have position hold on. You fly to a new position and it will stay there. I think is so that if you are flying in windy conditions and trying to get a shot lined up you can gently nudge the stick to get the copter to move a little bit until it is in the exact position you need for the shot.

Again, I have no idea if what I am saying is correct!!! Try it with Dynamic PH off and see what happens.

BTW - Did you get my email?

Shawn

 

[crcr]

What you're saying all makes sense. Its the wiki write up on log-in time thats confussing me, maybe its written around the wrong way, or maybe its just me?

The wiki is saying:

Position Hold Login Time

• That's the maximum of time in which the MikroKopter logs the new position after the sticks of the Nick/Roll axis are back into a neutral position.
  Yawing is possible without changing the nominal position.

Should it be minimum time? I understand maximum time to mean it will log a new position anything from 1 to say 5 sec.

Anyway I'll try with Dynamic PH off and see what happens, but the way you descibe how Dynamic PH works I can see it being more handy for shooting photos.

I did get your email thanks, I will email those guys.

Cheers,
Craig

 

[Mactadpole]

Craig,

Yah, minimum would make more sense. Be nice if someone who knows German could translate the wiki for us instead of auto translator.

Be sure to let us know what you observe. I will give it a try too whenever its no longer blowing like crazy here.

Shawn

 

[Skycopter.nl]

Interesting topic, let's follow It

 

[Droider]

Smoke and bloody mirrors.. Thats where MK are letting them selves down..

OK so I email Holgar and ask for a seminar on tuning the MK system.. open to all comers.. what do you reckon the chances are of getting a response?

The Wiki is a minefield to all new comers and us MK trialists.. I just want to fly get the shot and move on to the next one... Ill try the email

Dave

 

[Macsgrafs]

Smoke and bloody mirrors.. Thats where MK are letting them selves down..

OK so I email Holgar and ask for a seminar on tuning the MK system.. open to all comers.. what do you reckon the chances are of getting a response?

The Wiki is a minefield to all new comers and us MK trialists.. I just want to fly get the shot and move on to the next one... Ill try the email

Dave

Tell him Dave that there are £1000's of MK owners who are not happy about the destructions on MRF

Ross

 

[Mactadpole]

Smoke and bloody mirrors.. Thats where MK are letting them selves down..

OK so I email Holgar and ask for a seminar on tuning the MK system.. open to all comers.. what do you reckon the chances are of getting a response?

The Wiki is a minefield to all new comers and us MK trialists.. I just want to fly get the shot and move on to the next one... Ill try the email

Dave

A step-by-step tuning guide would be amazing!! Why can't they do something like the tuning video(s) available for the OP CC board?

Shawn

 

[MombasaFlash]

I think the copter will return to the original position with Dynamic PH off ...

I do not read it that way. My understanding is that the old idea of Position Hold where the MR returns to the place it was activated is gone. Now, Position Hold will always update to the new GPS coordinates, whether by turning off and on according to when sticks are centered or by continuous GPS update, with the latter resulting in smoother transitions from one PH location to the next.

The whole GPS login time business is still a murky area to me. It has to do with registering a new GPS position but what the practical effects of a higher or lower value are I do not know.

The Wiki is a minefield to all new comers and us MK trialists..

I agree. All the info might be there but the combination of the sometimes amusing, more often than not annoying, google translations and the generally sprawling nature of the wiki make it very hard to track down comprehensible answers. Nothing wrong with asking Holger to spread around a little knowledge.

 

[crcr]

I do not read it that way. My understanding is that the old idea of Position Hold where the MR returns to the place it was activated is gone. Now, Position Hold will always update to the new GPS coordinates, whether by turning off and on according to when sticks are centered or by continuous GPS update, with the latter resulting in smoother transitions from one PH location to the next.

So if that is the case will it be as I posted earlier??

So basically the copter will not return to the original position if the Nick/Roll stick is moved whether dynamic PH is on or off.

After reading that it looks like the only advantage of Dynamic PH is that its more accurate in windy conditions, is there any other advantage in using Dynamic PH?

Thanks,
Craig

I'm hoping to test today with dynamic PH on and off so will let you all know how it goes.

Craig

 

[crcr]

ok, just got back from some testing. I tried it with Dynamic PH off (unchecked) and found that if you give the nick/roll stick a quick flick the MK will return to the origianl position, if you hold it any longer it will not return to the original position and is also slow to stop and regain a steady PH.

After trying that I switched Dynamic PH back on, in this mode it doesn't return the the origianl position but is waaayyy faster at holding position after the sticks have been moved. I am going to stay with Dynamic PH, it is just too slow otherwise. Those are my findings anyway. Would be interested to hear someone elses test results.

I still have no idea what the PH login time does. I didn't notice any difference.

On a seperate issue - I took the MK up to about 30m and did a very slow 360 turning clockwise and it held very well (no wind) but if I turn the MK counter clockwise it doesn't hold tight on the spot and does about a 6-8m circle. Anyone else seen this or know what causes this?

Thanks,
Craig

 

[FunTastically Motivated]

ok, just got back from some testing. I tried it with Dynamic PH off (unchecked) and found that if you give the nick/roll stick a quick flick the MK will return to the origianl position, if you hold it any longer it will not return to the original position and is also slow to stop and regain a steady PH.

I think you just described what login time does! If you hold it any "longer", (where "longer" in your case was > login time) it logs the new position.

I definitely can see the application of the login time... Say you're shooting a sporting event--a soccer match. You want the copter to stay stationary in the center of the field using the PH. You'll deactivate DPH, but at the same time give login time, say, 15 seconds. So if the pilot moves the copter to a corner of the field for a corner kick and keeps it there for 15+ sec, then viola... He's got a new position. But if it's a quick ball movement to one corner and the ball is going to get kicked back to the center, the copter will slowly return to the original position where it can capture the entire field by just yawing. Ok maybe not the best real life example, but you can see where I'm going with this...

 

[wizprod]

I think you just described what login time does! If you hold it any "longer", (where "longer" in your case was > login time) it logs the new position.

I definitely can see the application of the login time... Say you're shooting a sporting event--a soccer match. You want the copter to stay stationary in the center of the field using the PH. You'll deactivate DPH, but at the same time give login time, say, 15 seconds. So if the pilot moves the copter to a corner of the field for a corner kick and keeps it there for 15+ sec, then viola... He's got a new position. But if it's a quick ball movement to one corner and the ball is going to get kicked back to the center, the copter will slowly return to the original position where it can capture the entire field by just yawing. Ok maybe not the best real life example, but you can see where I'm going with this...

Sorry, but you got it wrong.
Login time: time from sticks neutral to PH takes over again. In DPH login time seems to not have an effect.

"normal"/legacy style PH can work in 2 ways:
- after login time is reached, it will return to the position where PH was engaged. A new position can only be logged by re-engaging PH. The further you away away from where PH was engaged, the more the MK would want to return.
- after login time is reached, the current location of the MK will be used as PH loc. Using the sticks will temporarily disengage PH, until login time is once again reached.

 

[Mactadpole]

- after login time is reached, the current location of the MK will be used as PH loc. Using the sticks will temporarily disengage PH, until login time is once again reached.

I believe the example FunTastically Motivated gave is in agreement with your second statement about "normal"/legacy style PH.

- after login time is reached, it will return to the position where PH was engaged. A new position can only be logged by re-engaging PH. The further you away away from where PH was engaged, the more the MK would want to return.

Could you give us an example? This still does not make sense to me. How do you choose between the two style? There is no box to select what login time does so how can there be two ways?

Sorry if I have missed the obvious ya'll.

Shawn

 

[FunTastically Motivated]

Sorry, but you got it wrong.
Login time: time from sticks neutral to PH takes over again. In DPH login time seems to not have an effect.

"normal"/legacy style PH can work in 2 ways:
- after login time is reached, it will return to the position where PH was engaged. A new position can only be logged by re-engaging PH. The further you away away from where PH was engaged, the more the MK would want to return.
- after login time is reached, the current location of the MK will be used as PH loc. Using the sticks will temporarily disengage PH, until login time is once again reached.

Wrong I may be indeed! I have not flown my MK yet--or should I say have not dared to fly it yet... Got my WK-M hexa up and running in no time (as my very first multicopter well after mQX)... meanwhile, for almost the past two+ months have been trying to (well not every single day, but whenever I get a chance) fully understand how this MK stuff works being a newbie and all... mine is a Droidworx AD8 HL... everything (AV200, XBee, & SmartOSD modules included) works beautifully on the ground, but I am just too afraid to fly this beast yet... I was just relying on my research... So that's probably why I am getting this wrong...

I believe the example FunTastically Motivated gave is in agreement with your second statement about "normal"/legacy style PH.

Could you give us an example? This still does not make sense to me. How do you choose between the two style? There is no box to select what login time does so how can there be two ways?

Sorry if I have missed the obvious ya'll.

Shawn

I don't know the validity of this document or the author's knowledge level or even how up-to-date it is, but it explains the login time in a couple of different ways: http://info.hit-karlsruhe.de/ProjekteWS10/HDK-Steuerung/data/Anhang/NaviCtrl v0.pdf (just do ctrl+F and look up login). Do your own reading and then let's compare notes... Still confusing as heck, but this may help...

 

[wizprod]

That link is correct, it seems to be a direct copy of the wiki at some points.

One important parameter in all this is this one:

GPS Stick Threshold

So you can set the threshold for PositionHold to log a new position.
If you set it to 0 it's not signed with the stick but only by turning the mode switch:
You fly to the desired location and turn on PH. Then you can play with the stick and the MK will always be on
the target position. Especially in windy conditions it can be prevented so that the MK is not drifting.

 

[crcr]

I think you just described what login time does! If you hold it any "longer", (where "longer" in your case was > login time) it logs the new position.

I definitely can see the application of the login time... Say you're shooting a sporting event--a soccer match. You want the copter to stay stationary in the center of the field using the PH. You'll deactivate DPH, but at the same time give login time, say, 15 seconds. So if the pilot moves the copter to a corner of the field for a corner kick and keeps it there for 15+ sec, then viola... He's got a new position. But if it's a quick ball movement to one corner and the ball is going to get kicked back to the center, the copter will slowly return to the original position where it can capture the entire field by just yawing. Ok maybe not the best real life example, but you can see where I'm going with this...

I had PH login time set to 5 sec so was thinking it would return to where PH was switched on if it was under 5 sec, this was not the case. Wizprod mentioned something about the MK returning to where PH was switched on after the login time, this didn't seem to work either as it just stayed in its new position, all this is with Dynamic PH switched off.

I have not yet played with the GPS stick Threshold that Wizprod mentioned so maybe thats the trick.

Craig

 

[MombasaFlash]

... Still confusing as heck, but this may help...

That 'explanatory' document, indeed this whole thread, are clear examples of the main problems facing MK multi-rotor users in understanding how to set up their models. It may not all be rocket science but there is a sufficiently high degree of geekiness required to be able to comprehend WTF all the adjustable parameters are for and what effect changing them has.

The wiki and the pdf in that link are pretty much useless until you already understand what is going on, by which time you anyway have no need of their 'explanations'. First there is the poorly translated german into english and second is the absolute inability (A.I. ?) of the geek types who profess to understand it all to communicate clearly. In both cases we understand the individual words but not the sentences.

A case in point is the PH login time explanation: "The delay in seconds between the end of manual control (nick/roll back in neutral) and the sticking to the desired position in GPS_MODE_AID."

Suddenly everything is totally clear. But then .... well, .... actually it isn't clear at all.

What is the MR doing during the time you have returned the sticks to centre? Is it zooming back off to a previous logged position or is it staying where it has stopped. If you have to keep pressure on the sticks in order to keep it in one place, how does the new position EVER get logged with the sticks not being returned to centre? Or does the switch have to be toggled to register the new position?

This thread shows how everyone is stumbling around in the dark, trying to understand MK Tool parameters by bloody guesswork. It is the reason why the majority of users leave it all well alone and remain with Setting 3 parameters.

We all know that MK started out as an open source project. It attracted a certain type of binary brain. But the moment they made it a commercial venture by forming MikroKopter and taking money from regular modellers it became incumbent upon them to provide operating manuals for their products. They have attempted to accomplish this only with the sprawling, largely incomprehensible wiki.

 

[Macsgrafs]

Finally upgradede to 0.88. What a game that was!!!! I couldnt get my spektrum to bind as it reset into a jeti receiver, so sussed that & then needed 4 pairs of hands to get it to bind. Thanks to my wonderful Mrs for plugging in the 4s lipo whilst holding the bind plug on the receiver as I turned on my DX7 whilst also holding the bind plug. Hopefully all will be fine, just waiting for some good weather now...looking bad for May for us guys in the UK!!!

Ross

 

[seattle_helo]

Ross, FYI for future updates you don't need to re-bind your RX. The RX does not know or care what version the FC is. You can put .82, .88 or upload Lady GaGa into it and it doesn't matter. After updating just change the RX type in the settings back to Spektrum Hi-Res and it will function perfectly.

 

[MombasaFlash]

... or upload Lady GaGa into it and it doesn't matter.

Sweet!