Photohigher skyline rsgs

[Macsgrafs]

BH Ross we agree on something!!

Down your neck of the wood August, we should catch up fly and chew the fat!

hahahahahahaha must be an old age thing mate or it could be because I'm getting married this coming friday & got my own airshow booked for the event
Would be great to meet you & have a fly together Dave, so anytime you're coming down yertiz, give me a shout.

Let us know if/when you successfully mod the AV 200 for brushless

Will do Chris, it won't be until July sometime as I have a marriage & European honeymoon + RIAT to get out the way first

Ross

 

[Droider]

hahahahahahaha must be an old age thing mate or it could be because I'm getting married this coming friday & got my own airshow booked for the event
Would be great to meet you & have a fly together Dave, so anytime you're coming down yertiz, give me a shout.



Will do Chris, it won't be until July sometime as I have a marriage & European honeymoon + RIAT to get out the way first

Ross

All the Best Ross.. See you August!

 

[SMP]

I have to agree as well. . As it is now, virtually every moment that isn't engaged is dedicated to constant tuning for marginal results. :dejection: For those of us flying professionally we simply do not have the time for equipment that simply isn't able to perform. We have two AV200/360s and 4 Skylines now... HAD the Skyline(s) worked and/or Had PH attempted some level of support, we would have easily dropped 7500 on a Halo, actually 15K as we have two birds flying these payloads... I can only hope that PH turns to the Hollywood market as I strongly suspect there are very very very few Heli (MR or SRH) guys that will remain a customer under the current conditions.

Dear PH. Heres how to win us back. Step 1. Accountability. "As Zaxis says if PH wold just contribute on here and hold hands up there credibility would be greatly improved. Come on Kim, support or admit defeat. Give us an alternative to sing praises about rather than continually complain about the lack of CS and general head in the sand behaviour." Step 2. Support. Release your tuning manual, maintain a line of constant communication to your customer base, assist in problem solving and troubleshooting. Step 3. Resolution. Release a Firmware Update for the Skyline which gives us the confidence that future electronics in future PH products are able to perform. Step 4. ALTERNATIVE - Most of us are thrilled with the mechanics. Develop a brushless conversion and we'll buy the motors and Alex boards. Very Easy to implement, low cost, high probability of success, happy customer base.

Short of this our business simply cannot justify continued business with your company.

 

[chris hornby]

Will do Chris, it won't be until July sometime as I have a marriage & European honeymoon + RIAT to get out the way first

Ross

Might have done it before you then!:tennis:

 

[iscorama]

I have installed tarot zyx gs on roll axis and now I have very good horizon when I do pan.
I believe that Tarot would better perform than skyline on all axes but I just don't wanna waste time removing skyline and breaking the power cables I have installed on gimbal.
Had ZERO problems when setting up ZYX GS, just install it on camera tray, run one time setup software for cracking up gain on roll and that was all, pretty easy and straight forward...

 

[SMP]

All right, I've had enough. I'm willing to try anything! Tarot hybrid next

 

[RTRyder]

I see from the website the Halo gimbals are available to order. The GoPro Halo 1000 version lists for almost as much as a DJI Z15 does in US dollars, $3342 at current exchange rates! Right now I have an RCTimer brushless gimbal ($99) with an Alexmos controller ($170 with sensor board) for a total cost of $269 and it delivers results like this...

Other than the Halo having a third axis for yaw/pan I doubt that it produces $3073 better results than what I'm currently using and with the new release of the V2.0 firmware for the Alexmos board it is now possible to have control of the third axis which right now requires an additional controller board so add another $170 to what I already have. I've seen the results from someone that has already implemented the third axis on an Alexmos system and it works as well as it does on pitch and roll. So while the fancy carbon fiber has a large bling factor, I can't see ANY justification for paying that amount of $$$$ for GoPro only Halo gimbal, nor do I have the confidence remaining to spend the much greater sums for the larger Halo units, the brushless gimbals now available have proven results for a tiny fraction of the P/H prices. I've already bought and setup three perfectly functioning brushless gimbals for far less than the cost of one P/H GoPro direct drive gimbal, the market for high $ gimbals is gone IMO.

 

[ZAxis]

No chance Andy, and for those of you that know Andy personally I would say this a very honest and thought out post. I do feel sorry for the PH team but the beta testers right from the beginning, me inclded said dont do it until things where sorted. The rest is history, this is the biggest thread on here, why PH have not listened to the best minds in MR's is beyond me... mmm I wonder what is controlling there $14k Halo 3000! and will anyone trust it.

Dave

You were so right Dave, 2 days on and not a peep. They've turned their gaze to Hollywood and the apparent glittering prizes there.


a couple of W C Fields quips come to mind

“If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.”

“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****.”

Anyway, tonight I've kicked off on the brushless path ..... just hope it's not groundhog day.

andy

 

[SMP]

Anybody try an Alex board to a Servo?? I'm thinking Tilt should be fairly easy to stuff a Brushless Motor where the Skyline lives with a bit o Dremel. Roll looks a bit harder. Thinking keep the Roll wheel and just tie the motor to the back of it. Brushless/Servo hybrid.

 

[iscorama]

This is how a real and honest company take care of it's customers:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...7400017603.177054.210229122603&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0017603.177054.210229122603&type=1&permPage=1

bolt on upgrade for those of you who already own a 3X Pro v2, v3, or HD​

Too bad photohigher are bunch of guys just looking to suck every penny out of you and don't gave noting in return ( or gave you useless crap that doesn't work, it's not enought that they screw you over for money but they also take your time, patience, nerves and common sense when you try make their crap work as they promised it will work)

 

[SMP]

Ok so Proof of Concept - Photoship is using the Brushless on their Roll belt drive. Maybe we just need an adapter plate from the roll wheel to the brushless motor direct. Anybody 3D Print??

Now that I think about it further - without the ability to balance Roll axis direct to motor suspect it wont work. not sure how PhotoshipOne is solving the issue.

 

[chris hornby]

Anybody try an Alex board to a Servo?? I'm thinking Tilt should be fairly easy to stuff a Brushless Motor where the Skyline lives with a bit o Dremel. Roll looks a bit harder. Thinking keep the Roll wheel and just tie the motor to the back of it. Brushless/Servo hybrid.

I am thinking, mount the roll potentiometer cog onto a brushless motor. Someone was saying it wouldn't work because of the pendulum effect, dunno where he got that from it can still be balanced on its axis....which it should be anyway even if using servos. I am definitely going to convert mine. Also you could still use the belt drive for tilt, it would mean you wouldn't need a large motor.

 

[RTRyder]

Ok so Proof of Concept - Photoship is using the Brushless on their Roll belt drive. Maybe we just need an adapter plate from the roll wheel to the brushless motor direct. Anybody 3D Print??

Now that I think about it further - without the ability to balance Roll axis direct to motor suspect it wont work. not sure how PhotoshipOne is solving the issue.

Having owned PS1 multirotor gimbals in the past I have never seen anything approaching professional quality results in my own use and anyone else's for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS1 brushless gimbal delivers less than optimal results at best. I've watched what they apparently think are good videos of their later products in action and found the horizon is rarely if ever fully level and the overall compensation on both axis mediocre to poor in as delivered configuration which pretty much matches my hands-on experience. I wouldn't copy anything they've put into their M/R gimbal design simply because I've never seen one that worked the way it should. One of their designs relied on what amounted to a large rubber band for roll cradle movement on gimbals intended for DSLRs, not surprisingly it delivered unsatisfactory results when it even worked and subsequently died off fairly quickly due to design flaws.

Personally I'd stay away from any brushless design that isn't a direct drive, the technology isn't intended to work with gear or belt drives and it may well have issues with the way the firmware is designed to work trying to use it that way. If you go with the Martinez controller which is open source software and change the code to work with a geared drive then you may be able to do it, otherwise I think it's much easier to just start fresh. By the time you work all the bugs out of a conversion you could have done a half dozen conventional brushless design/builds IMO.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to salvage some use from what you already have, something I know all too well from the pair of AV130 and the RSGS sitting over on the bench gathering dust. I've come to the conclusion it's all basically worthless at this point as there has been zero interest by potential buyers at any price above giving it away. Sometimes you just have to shelve it and move on and try not to think about the $$$$ and time lost...

Ken

 

[SMP]

Rapidly coming to same conclusion... Thanks for the reply Ken.

 

[tombrown1]

Having owned PS1 multirotor gimbals in the past I have never seen anything approaching professional quality results in my own use and anyone else's for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS1 brushless gimbal delivers less than optimal results at best. I've watched what they apparently think are good videos of their later products in action and found the horizon is rarely if ever fully level and the overall compensation on both axis mediocre to poor in as delivered configuration which pretty much matches my hands-on experience. I wouldn't copy anything they've put into their M/R gimbal design simply because I've never seen one that worked the way it should. One of their designs relied on what amounted to a large rubber band for roll cradle movement on gimbals intended for DSLRs, not surprisingly it delivered unsatisfactory results when it even worked and subsequently died off fairly quickly due to design flaws.

Personally I'd stay away from any brushless design that isn't a direct drive, the technology isn't intended to work with gear or belt drives and it may well have issues with the way the firmware is designed to work trying to use it that way. If you go with the Martinez controller which is open source software and change the code to work with a geared drive then you may be able to do it, otherwise I think it's much easier to just start fresh. By the time you work all the bugs out of a conversion you could have done a half dozen conventional brushless design/builds IMO.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to salvage some use from what you already have, something I know all too well from the pair of AV130 and the RSGS sitting over on the bench gathering dust. I've come to the conclusion it's all basically worthless at this point as there has been zero interest by potential buyers at any price above giving it away. Sometimes you just have to shelve it and move on and try not to think about the $$$$ and time lost...

Ken

Agreed Ken. I ran that rsgs through the ringer too with no luck. Still using the av130, but it is heavily modified.

The problem I've been having lately is watching all of these Alex Mos videos - I have yet to see one hold a steady horizon. They are smooth as silk, but I still see similar horizon issues as the rsgs. For example, try going up 100 feet and look at a level horizon. Then put your mr into motion while panning - from what I've seen the horizon will dip significantly for a couple of seconds before leveling.

Are you finding that you keep a level horizon no matter what motion your mr is in (aside from really violent motions)?

I'm still trying to decide whether or not to go the Alexmos route - currently saving for the new GH3 Zen because the old Zens have produced the most reliable results I have seen anywhere.

Best,

Tom

 

[RTRyder]

Agreed Ken. I ran that rsgs through the ringer too with no luck. Still using the av130, but it is heavily modified.

The problem I've been having lately is watching all of these Alex Mos videos - I have yet to see one hold a steady horizon. They are smooth as silk, but I still see similar horizon issues as the rsgs. For example, try going up 100 feet and look at a level horizon. Then put your mr into motion while panning - from what I've seen the horizon will dip significantly for a couple of seconds before leveling.

Are you finding that you keep a level horizon no matter what motion your mr is in (aside from really violent motions)?

I'm still trying to decide whether or not to go the Alexmos route - currently saving for the new GH3 Zen because the old Zens have produced the most reliable results I have seen anywhere.

Best,

Tom

Like any other gimbal the brushless systems require a good initial setup and then fine tuning to get it perfect, the difference is they actually work once you get it dialed in. Some aspects of the setup like camera balance are MORE critical on a brushless than on a servo driven and then there's the matter of knowing how to tune PID settings to achieve the results you want. Since I've been playing with Multiwii and MK flight controllers for a few years now I have a pretty good grasp of PID tuning, I think this is one area where the vast majority of people setting up brushless gimbals are getting it wrong. The other part is the fact this is brand new technology and the firmware is still being refined. I've seen incremental improvements in the first few releases and IMO a major leap forward with the Alexmos 2.0 code. There's a new GUI along with with some nice features such as being able to save three different configuration files to flash memory and be able to swap to any one of them using a TX switch so you could setup for three different camera/lens combos and instantly have the gimbal dialed in for each swap in the field without having to hookup a laptop and make changes to the settings, something I have yet to see with any other gimbal ever. That said, I've now got the MK setup to the point the horizon doesn't do large tilt changes in flight, still working on getting it perfect but I think with a bit more firmware refinement and a little more effort on fine tuning the setup it will get there, certainly getting far better raw results than the best I've ever seen from a servo driven gimbal regardless of who made it and how it was controlled. To me the icing on the cake is the fact that none of the three brushless I currently have cost more than $500 and the best performer at the moment came in at a whopping $269 for Zenmuse like results!

So far I've been focusing on refining the setup with my little Mk Hexa and an RCTimer GoPro gimbal using an Alexmos controller, easier to work with the smaller multi than to be constantly tinkering with the much larger Cinestar on the bench. Now that I've got a good handle on proper setup technique I'm going to use that to get the CS dialed in, assuming the same things apply in a scaled up gimbal with larger camera, I'll find out soon enough.

Ken

 

[tombrown1]

Thanks for the info Ken. Maybe I'll spring for one after all.

 

[blushoes]

regarding my issue with the bad usb cable, 10 or so pages back.... just to let everyone know that after a couple of emails,
PH did fedex over a new usb cable for me.

thank you PH.

 

[Macsgrafs]

All the Best Ross.. See you August!

Thanks Dave, I finally married the girl of my dreams and if you want to see what a very pretty girl I married...well here you go
some good news amongst all this bad news...

Ross

 

[Tuukkuli]

Well it seems as PH has given up altogether trying to make Skyline work. No input on this forum, no new official firmware, no reply to the mails besides the only exception of Sue who tries to help but she is not a tech support person.

I wish PH all the best in the future. They really need it if they are going to stay on the market. But only they can help themselves. Interesting to know where PH is a year or two from now.

Oh, an congrats Ross!