Photohigher skyline rsgs

[Blacksails]

Hi Blacksails

Well the word is that if the skyline is rolling when you are panning then the z level is off. try it in a few locations but what you can do is remove the skyline, and place it up against a surface that you know is at 90deg to a level surface, use the header as a guide to line up the skyline and set the Z level that way.
Roll and Pan have an effect on each other in the firmware programming hence the movement.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Thank you, Mike. Much appreciated.
I will give it another go later this evening and report back.

Alex

 

[iscorama]

iscorama - are you having the same issues as Blacksails or somebody else?

The skyline and AV200 do work, they just require time to set up correctly. My camerman and I put roughly 40 flights through the equipment, just flying the same path and checking the video after each flight. Adjust the gimbal and repeat. Unfortunately in this line of work the equipment isn't plug and play and if you want results time has to be invested. There is a new and much more detailed manual on the way, It will include video also. Just give me a couple of weeks, I am writing it each night after finishing my day job hence the time required..........

My problem with roll is that almost every time I turn the skyline on, roll goes 1 degree on left or right side, and with every time that angle is increasing, bigger and bigger...
I set it up, save, don't touch anything and tomorrow just turn it on (don't even move the mount) roll is not where it should be and where it was the day before...

Also, when I pan, roll slowly drift to one side more than 10-20 degree, and than very very slowly returns to level position...
Roll is working acceptably fine when PAN is not engaged and when it's freshly setup (on level), but I want to use PAN option, i didn't bought pan and 3axis stabilization so i can't use it...

Here is the video of my setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOhpsdWuUkc&feature=youtu.be

I can make video that better illustrate roll behavior when panning but im doubting that this is fixable with this skyline HARDWARE, and that we all are just waisting our time...

 

[rcmike]

Is there any way to speed up the initial reaction time? For example, I can roll the gimbal and the camera will roll maybe a degree or so and then stay that way until I stop and then it will roll back to level. I am on 1.7 on a PhotoshipOne 3XPro V2 and I can turn up the roll gain all the way and it doesn't really oscillate at all. I hooked up my camera to the television and got the gains as good as could but I never got that slight delay out of it.

 

[MikeH]

If you disconnect pan from the skyline and just plug it into the receiver in order to manually control it does the roll still drift?
If it is drifting when you turn it on then your centre tunes probably arent correct. Drop all gains to zero and look at the gimbal. If it is slowly drifting on any axis then the centre tune values are incorrect, adjust them till it stops moving then reset your gains. Generally velocity should be 60ish but no more than 80 and integral is best left at 0.

Hopefully that solves the problem......

My problem with roll is that almost every time I turn the skyline on, roll goes 1 degree on left or right side, and with every time that angle is increasing, bigger and bigger...
I set it up, save, don't touch anything and tomorrow just turn it on (don't even move the mount) roll is not where it should be and where it was the day before...

Also, when I pan, roll slowly drift to one side more than 10-20 degree, and than very very slowly returns to level position...
Roll is working acceptably fine when PAN is not engaged and when it's freshly setup (on level), but I want to use PAN option, i didn't bought pan and 3axis stabilization so i can't use it...

Here is the video of my setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOhpsdWuUkc&feature=youtu.be

I can make video that better illustrate roll behavior when panning but im doubting that this is fixable with this skyline HARDWARE, and that we all are just waisting our time...

 

[MikeH]

What are your velocity gains set at? Velocity gain acts in the opposite direction to the position gain so it is ultimately trying to stop the skyline from leveling, set it at 60, integral to zero and try it again.
What servo are you using and at what voltage?

Is there any way to speed up the initial reaction time? For example, I can roll the gimbal and the camera will roll maybe a degree or so and then stay that way until I stop and then it will roll back to level. I am on 1.7 on a PhotoshipOne 3XPro V2 and I can turn up the roll gain all the way and it doesn't really oscillate at all. I hooked up my camera to the television and got the gains as good as could but I never got that slight delay out of it.

 

[Tuukkuli]

Gains question: I have the AV130 and Sony CX-730. At the moment I have default gains. The roll is not efficient enough. When I roll to the right for example, the camera also rolls to the right a little.
Tilt is worse. When tilting, the camera starts to rock itself violently up and down. Is this the jitter many are talking about or something else?

Thanks to the post above, I understand that velocity gains stop the Skyline from levelling and position gains try to level the Skyline. But what do integral gains do?

I also would appreciate a lot if someone had working gain settings to Sony CX-730 or similar. Thanks!

 

[Macsgrafs]

If you disconnect pan from the skyline and just plug it into the receiver in order to manually control it does the roll still drift?
......

Mike, thats how I've been running my RSGS since I first got it, I have a cam op so no need to worry about pan, but it still shows this awful Fault!

Ross

 

[tahoelight]

Yes, this is jitter. If you are getting the oscillation with default settings, I am guessing your camera is not balanced on all axis. Have you balanced the camera with the belts off so that if you tilt the camera it stays put. Sort of like balancing props.

Gains question: I have the AV130 and Sony CX-730. At the moment I have default gains. The roll is not efficient enough. When I roll to the right for example, the camera also rolls to the right a little.
Tilt is worse. When tilting, the camera starts to rock itself violently up and down. Is this the jitter many are talking about or something else?

Thanks to the post above, I understand that velocity gains stop the Skyline from levelling and position gains try to level the Skyline. But what do integral gains do?

I also would appreciate a lot if someone had working gain settings to Sony CX-730 or similar. Thanks!

 

[Tuukkuli]

Yes I have balanced the camera on the tray. My tilt position gain is 180 and if I go any higher, tilt starts to jitter. At 180 position gain tilt stabilization is not very good yet.
If I undserstood correctly, when increased, velocity gain should reduce the tendency to jittering. Is this correct? Because when I tried to reduce jittering at above 180 tilt position gain with increasing tilt velocity gain, I did not get very logical results.

 

[tombrown1]

Your tilt gain is way too high. I have mine around 20 or 30 or so - and let my Sony BOSS do the rest. Your gains will differ from anybody else's with your setup because of the inconsistency between AV130s. It depends on the smoothness of the movement of your particular AV130, the exact balancing that you have, and sometimes the alignment of the stars. You must have your level set perfectly - have your skyline level with your tray, make sure screws are not too tight, but not too loose - same for the skyline. It's a very finicky system that isn't very good, but can be serviceable if you spend a few dozen hours working it out.

A new way I found to test your balance - your servos should not be working at all when rsgs is on and camera is mounted and level. If you push the roll or tilt one way or the other gently and the servo sound goes away, then you are out of balance.

Good luck, you have about 20-30 hours of hard work ahead of you - if you want to avoid this work then go buy Radians at $350 per axis and Freefly servos at about $100 a pop - this will reduce your work to about 7 or 8 hours.


Best,

TB

 

[MikeH]

Tuukkuli. It sounds like you need to increase the roll position gain as the skyline is reacting to slowly to the change in direction.
It sounds like jitter and there are a few possible causes. For starters your camera has got to be balanced perfectly, ie disconnect the tilt belt and move the camera, if it returns to level it isn't balanced, the camera should stay in any position you place it in. 2.if it jitters in one direction only then the centre tune is incorrect and needs adjusting.
3. If you are using an av130 or av200 then ensure the screws attaching the tilt plate aren't to tight, the tilt plate should swing freely with just a hint of friction.

Leave your velocity gains at around the 60 to 80 mark, much more and they will contribute to the problem.

Your settings will be slightly different to somebody else who is running the same camera, no to gimbals are exactly the same, each person will have different belt tensions, different wiring setups for the datalink which changes the way the camera is balanced etc. So either way I recommend you tune it for your setup.

Hope that Helps

Gains question: I have the AV130 and Sony CX-730. At the moment I have default gains. The roll is not efficient enough. When I roll to the right for example, the camera also rolls to the right a little.
Tilt is worse. When tilting, the camera starts to rock itself violently up and down. Is this the jitter many are talking about or something else?

Thanks to the post above, I understand that velocity gains stop the Skyline from levelling and position gains try to level the Skyline. But what do integral gains do?

I also would appreciate a lot if someone had working gain settings to Sony CX-730 or similar. Thanks!

 

[MikeH]

Let me get this right, your cameraman looks after the pan and you are still getting roll drift?
If you are doing full 360deg pans then in my experience the roll will drift, its just the nature of the beast. If you are simply sitting level or in straight and level flight at a constant speed and the roll drifts then the roll centre tune is out.
test it like this

1. Set all gains in the “Gains” tab to zero then return to the “tuning” tab
2. Click “Servos On”
3. If the gimbal sits in one position and doesn’t creep then autotune has managed to center the servos

• If your Gimbal tilt is creeping down increase the center tune value till it stops. If it is creeping up decrease the value. If the servo starts creeping in the opposite direction you have gone to far.
• If your Gimbal is rolling right adjust the Roll Center Tune up slightly, if it is rolling left adjust the value down. If the servo starts creeping in the opposite direction you have gone to far.
• If Pan is turning right adjust the value up, if its turning left adjust the value down until the servo stops

1. Once the Gimbal sits still click “Save Settings”

This is simply done from the top of my head so I could have increase/decrease round the wrong way but you will figure it out

If it seems to roll only when tilt is used then the skyline itself isn't sitting vertically on its mount, if the grub screw is still fitted then remove it as it will hold the skyline off on one side, and definitely make sure it isin't to tight as this will deform the silicon, once again holding it off.
If you are running integral gains then try lowering them to 0.

Hope that helps

Mike, thats how I've been running my RSGS since I first got it, I have a cam op so no need to worry about pan, but it still shows this awful Fault!

Ross

 

[Macsgrafs]

Let me get this right, your cameraman looks after the pan and you are still getting roll drift?

Wrong...its my camera woman

Great explanation Mike, I'm sure you are correct...but as you stated, "it's the nature of the beast"...so no matter what I try & do, it will always slant/roll over a bit during a turn

Ross

 

[Tuukkuli]

About tuning: Xyz axle calibration works OK but when I auto tune, it never finishes. Should it finish at all? AV130 360 kit and Skyline RSGS v. 1.2.

Thanks on the gains tips. Will try them and tell how they work.

 

[MikeH]

If the led returns to a blue colour then autotune has finished, all it does is tilt and roll.

Autotune basically sets the servo centre and decides if a servo needs to be reversed so if it isn't finishing then it isnt ideal but it can be done manually.

Hopefully the4 gains help you out.
Mike

About tuning: Xyz axle calibration works OK but when I auto tune, it never finishes. Should it finish at all? AV130 360 kit and Skyline RSGS v. 1.2.

Thanks on the gains tips. Will try them and tell how they work.

 

[nicwilke]

:nevreness:

 

[Tuukkuli]

Pan system: I zeroed all gains and did the pan center tune without the gimbal attached to the copter and found the center tune i.e. the servo stopped rotating. Saved it. After that I adjusted pan position gain to 100 and pan velocity gain to 60. Attached pan input and pan servo cables to reveiver and servo.

After connecting power, the pan servo started rotating quite fast. (gimbal was still not attached to copter) Once I tipped my aileron stick to the other direction - pan input was connected to aileron channel - the direction of rotation changed but the speed remained the same.

After this I connected the pan servo directly to aileron channel on the receiver. Once again the pan servo started to rotate but I managed to stop rotating with subtrim. Pretty much was needed. -51 on Futaba T8FG. Pan was really sensitive so I used minus expo as much as possible (-100 both ways) to smoothen the start of the pan movement out.

Is the pan even planned to be plugged into Skyline with the present 1.2.2 firmware or should it be plugged into the receiver like I did? Have I done everything correct with the pan setup or is there something to improve?

 

[danje]

Hi Tuukkuli and all others reading and contributing to this thread.
We've too been struggling to get the Skyline working correctly. We went through pretty much all the problems mentioned here, more or less, but were overall and initially pleased with the system.

About to weeks ago we invested in the pan kit and although the manual/instructions provided by PH were a bit of an adventure,
we managed to get it working quite satisfyingly. Have a look at our last mirror test - not perfect, but getting there:

http://vimeo.com/59664966

The only thing we can't get rid of currently is the darn pan servo stepping a tiny bit in the clockwise direction viewed from above
every 10 seconds or so...

This is the AV200 and 360 pan kit with the Skyline 1.1 FW 1.2.2

Cheers all.

 

[mounirz]

Is there any way to speed up the initial reaction time? For example, I can roll the gimbal and the camera will roll maybe a degree or so and then stay that way until I stop and then it will roll back to level. I am on 1.7 on a PhotoshipOne 3XPro V2 and I can turn up the roll gain all the way and it doesn't really oscillate at all. I hooked up my camera to the television and got the gains as good as could but I never got that slight delay out of it.

rcmike. i have the same thing. did hundreds of tests and now my gimbal is at its best. the phenomena you are talking about is very clear to a keen eye and it is not related to how much you increase the gain nor any other value in the software. i personally believe and i am positive of this thing that it is a limitation from the software. what it does is when the gimbal is stationary and you move it just a degree in one direction you can clearly see that it waits for a while before it starts correcting. when going in one direction and you stop and start going back in the other direction. it stops very well and tuning that actually works. but when you are moving back to the other direction it takes this fraction of a degree before it starts correcting.
i bet that PH programmers had put this slight delay to eliminate jitter issues. but this created other issues in stabilization......
i have posted a video earlier to show this phenomena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzkQtQc0cFE
again its not a balance issue
nothing is binding on all axis !!!!
belts are tight
belts are aligned perfectly and are not binding
spent days playing with gains and everything
tried V1.2.2 V1.6 & V1.7b same thing ......

if only PH can fix this problem for me i will have the best gimbal out there im soooo close and i would not have to go for any other product in the market.

where are you PH ????

 

[tahoelight]

Pan system: I zeroed all gains and did the pan center tune without the gimbal attached to the copter and found the center tune i.e. the servo stopped rotating. Saved it. After that I adjusted pan position gain to 100 and pan velocity gain to 60. Attached pan input and pan servo cables to reveiver and servo.

After connecting power, the pan servo started rotating quite fast. (gimbal was still not attached to copter) Once I tipped my aileron stick to the other direction - pan input was connected to aileron channel - the direction of rotation changed but the speed remained the same.

After this I connected the pan servo directly to aileron channel on the receiver. Once again the pan servo started to rotate but I managed to stop rotating with subtrim. Pretty much was needed. -51 on Futaba T8FG. Pan was really sensitive so I used minus expo as much as possible (-100 both ways) to smoothen the start of the pan movement out.

Is the pan even planned to be plugged into Skyline with the present 1.2.2 firmware or should it be plugged into the receiver like I did? Have I done everything correct with the pan setup or is there something to improve?

You need to tune the pan with the gimbal elevated. Either attached to the multirotor which is suspended, or set something up where the gimbal is free to rotate, but the mounting system is fixed. This rotation is normal if you have the gimbal on the ground. You want to set up an aux switch so that when you arm the gimbal before flight, the pan is turned off. you will then flip the switch to turn pan on one you lift off.