Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

[Bartman]

So true! I still bought 100 of them though

By the way, I REALLY want to say a HUGE thank you to Bart and to everyone else who's been posting advice in this thread. I have been following along at home and took a new DJI F550 on its first test flights a couple of weeks ago. Thanks to this thread (and especially to Bart for producing his videos), I'm pleased to report that despite my attempts to over-complicate things with a GoPro, gimbal, FPV tx system, custom undercarriage, a custom power-distribution system and retractable landing gear, absolutely everything worked perfectly first-time and it flies like a dream! Thank you!!! :cheerful:

Glad it all worked out for you! Enjoy it!

Thanks,
Bart

 

[NeilM]

Still waiting for my order (backorder parts)

 

[placoderm]

Corey/Capt/Bart:
Thank you for your comments about the different options regarding FCs. I have taken some time over the last couple of days and read a number of reviews about the Xaircraft and the Naza. The last review I read/watched{part of} this morning was Bart's, and it's by far the most complete of any of the reviews I have come across (thanks yet again Bart!). I am going to go with the Naza, take it slow, and slowly get to the advanced features. It makes sense after reading Bart's comments (and Corey's comments) on how incorrectly setting fail safes could result in the exact opposite happening. I'll take these comments to heart and proceed with caution on the Naza platform.

Next up!
Radios
I have done some review reading (and watching) on radios and I think I have it narrowed it down to either the Turnigy 9xr or Taranis x9d. I am supporting of open source, and while this go around I am choosing to get started on a FC that is closed source to facilitate the ease of getting rolling, I would like to continue to support the concept of open source in the radio, that is assuming this lot doesn't think I am making bad choice? I seem to be leaning toward the Taranis but can't help to consider turnigy for cost reasons. Any comments from this group on these two choices? Good/Bad/Ugly/Run-away/don't-be-so-cheap? I had scanned the PAGES of replies on this thread and there was a couple of postings on the radio choices but I am hoping for some additional comments/direction.

Assuming I get traction on the radio question (or not), a number of posting mentioned getting a smaller quad to practice on, and following the slow and steady approach I am good with that! Not to mention whats better than one quad in the house? Well two of course... the lady bird was mentioned any others I should look into? Do use my radio choice with this unit? Or do I get similar cheap radio TX/RX for it?

Thanks again everyone!

--placoderm

 

[coreyperez]

Radios!

Well having just upgraded from the 9XR to a Futaba 14SG I hope my information will help. I’ll keep it short on the answers, and you can read into why’s below:

Radio: Spend the money and get the real thing. Futaba

Mini (training quad). I got the aforementioned Ladybird (from Amazon). But have gotten NUMEROUS replacement parts from www.hobbyflip.com (use code FLY777) for 7.77% discount. Keep in mind, I play rough with mine, and really don’t like having to wait to get a motor, props, etc, so I tend to buy in bulk! I’ve got 3 total ready to fly ladybirds, numerous extra motors (they are directional), tons of props, batteries, chargers, etc. But only the original charger it came with. I also purchased this one because I knew it was configured like the normal multirotor controller (throttle/yaw left stick). I’ve heard that spektrum radios MAY work with this, but if I was given the best (top of the line) Spektrum radio, I’d sell it and buy a cheap Futaba. (Read into the issues with the Spektrum, I’ll let you decide if it’s a chance you want to take.

That out of the way. Here are the longer answers. I’ll focus this on “Radios. I have a Turnigy 9XR, I have a friend who fly’s a Taranis. I like the looks and the control feel of my 9XR much better than his, (his ratchets, and MAY be adjustable, but I just didn’t like it). There are many switches on the Taranis that are 3 positions, and only 1 or 2 that are on the 9XR. The 9XR doesn’t have “paddles/flippers” on the back for gimbal control, only the POTs on the front. On the Taranis there are audio on his (voice information) which I feel is really cheap and takes away from the controller. It sounds like a robot from an 80’s movie. Frankly, I’d be embarrassed to show up anywhere with the Taranis. Keep in mind, only MY opnion. Most feel that radio surpasses the 9xr. On the level, I’d take IT over a Spektrum. From this point on, consider Spektrum the last resort (just above) from those old string RC airplanes (Ones you would start up and you held the rope/string and it flew in a circle, you could just make it go up and down…. That is the only thing worse than a Spektrum, in my book) Next worse Taranis followed by 9XR. My choice is the Futaba. There is a 8ch that can be upgraded to a 14ch (I believe) and it has a huge following. I opted for the 14SG because I liked the features better.

Ok, why do I have a 9XR, Well it comes down to costs. I wanted to show my wife I was doing this as inexpensive as I could. I never intended to fly far, just doing aerial photography/videos. I planned to keep this close, so distance (signal strength) wasn’t an issue when I started out. I’ve quickly changed my mind. This is where my dislike for the two “budget” radios comes into play. I’ve done extensive reviews and determined that the budget modules are very weak, quality control is poor and frankly you get what you are paying for. Consider this SINGLE point. There is only one thing keeping you in control/linked to your aircraft. The controller you have in your hand. If anything is going to be a weak link, that isn’t going to be it for me. Failsafes: Sure, you can say “it doesn’t matter, my failsafe will rescue me. What if the RX is what fails? Now you have nothing. For the point of radio, I wanted the best I could afford. Now that my wife isn’t looking, I went big

While on Failsafe. Ok, honestly, the Frsky RX and Orange RX were SUPER easy to program. Once you have the programming (mixes setup in the TX, you can verify this in the Naza Assistant, SUPER EASY), you “write” your failsafe to the RX. With the two budget modules, this was basically just configuring the controller EXACTLY the way you wanted the RX to act when in failsafe. My instance, throttle @ 45% (landing-ish throttle position), GPS/ATT/Manual switch in GPS and my Failsafe switch in Failsafe. Basically, I wanted to know it was going to do the most it could. Land if all else failed, hold in GPS if possible, or RTH (which it SHOULD do in FS). Once these switches/levers were configured I would “write” that to the RX (read up on your receiver, I don’t want to give you bad information). Once again, SUPER EASY with the FRSKY and Orange RX. My Futaba “seemed” more complex. Truthfully I haven’t tested it, and I’ll have to do that now that the discussion has been had on a different thread.

Couple quick links:

Orange TX/RX tests: http://youtu.be/xRyOXDGgIh8
Failsafe discussion: http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?18114-What-is-the-possiblity-I-stumbled-upon-(at-least-a-partial-cuase)-of-the-DJI-Fly-Away

Ok, I’ve beat that to death I think. In order of radios, best first: Futaba… (ok, nothing else worth talking about really…)

Miniquads.
I had a few other’s mentioned. I’ve started out with the Ladybirds, and just stuck with it. They are very small, (about the size of a CD) and are really robust. I use them to practice nose-in (left is right, forward is back, etc). I really enjoy what I’ve learned and fly mine a few times a week. It doesn’t cost anything, and its good training. It has also helped me a couple times with my KK2.1 multi-rotor. Not having all the “support” Naza offers, I often will grab my KK craft over my Naza bird. The Naza is like taking grandma’s station wagon to the store for milk, whereas the KK is like taking a race car on a road course… HUGE difference.

Well… Ok, I suppose enough is enough here. Hopefully this wasn’t a huge rant. I wish you lived close enough I’d let you check out (or even borrow) my 9XR. I’ll never go back. I’ve only (currently) held onto it as a gimbal radio for my next builds. Truthfully though, unless I’m using a 3D gimbal, the little “flippers” on the Futaba work perfectly.

Paste from MS Word. Hopefully it work out!

Corey

PS! (Edit after Bart's post below V V V V V V V V V V) Thanks for reeling it back in. You are absolutely correct, Coke drinkers only like Coke, GM won't own a Toyota, etc. That video was only the first one I was able to come upon after searching through my Youtube history, but you bring up many good points.

Thanks! ~Corey

 

[Bartman]

Radios!.......................

Corey

Thanks for the information but I can't go along with everything that you said. First of all, the point of this thread is to bring everyone to the table, tools in hand, to build a basic quad. We're not outfitting for a world record attempt or for a hollywood production, we're getting people across the hump of getting a first build done and flying.

To that end, there are going to be many radios that can be used successfully including the Taranis and other budget options. Are they perfect? First guess is no but then again there are a lot of people out there flying with them. Having grown up with budget equipment in my airplanes, I'm hard pressed to poo-poo budget options for others.

The video you posted is about three years old and one comment made points out that the Orange receiver is being used with only its one antenna where in real life they'd usually have satellites attached, improving reception and possibly range. The Spektrum receiver used in the video had both a long antenna wire and a short one so it had the benefit of diversity where the Orange didn't (but could have). Also, the receiver in the video is the old version which has been replaced by a new version.

Again, am I saying that the Orange is every bit as good as a top shelf receiver from Futaba/Spektrum/Hitec? I'm not an expert but they work great for a variety of applications including this group build project. Heck, I've got an Orange on my F450 that is in the videos.

If you guys want to go to the general discussion area and beat the topic of radios to death, have at it. What's a forums site without these discussions? But for the purposes of this thread and the goal of our group build, suffice it to say there are a lot of options and what is good for one builder might not be best for another builder.

I've got a Taranis on the way and will be happy to discuss it at length once it's here. I've also got Futaba radios, JR, Hitec, and Spektrum in the shop so I'll be happy to make comparisons. But, if a Taranis works both in range and with the features it offers for someone that wants a park flyer from their group build quad then so be it. If it gives them even more than that then that's great and we're all better for having lots of options.

My daily flyer that I use for my media work is a JR-9503 DSM2. Folks that preach Futaba at the other sites would say JR stinks. JR people would say Futaba stinks. My 9503 is in its fourth year of frequent use and it's still rock solid. The moral is, there is no end-all-be-all with radios. I actually love the feel of the Hitec but it's not as compatible with DJI or Mikrokopter and I haven't seen Orange receivers for it so it doesn't get used much, even with my planes.

Any new builds or first flights lately?

 

[quarta]

Any new builds or first flights lately?

I've got a new build that had its first flight on Sunday... Built slowly over the past few weeks, following this thread mostly.

My system includes:
DJI F450 Frame with DJI Landing Gear
DJI 2212 Motors
DJI 30A Opto ESC
DJI Stock 1038 props
DJI Naza-M Lite w/GPS
Turnigy 3S 5000mah Lipo
Spektrum DX7 2.4Ghz DSM2 Air version with OrangeRx R710 & R100 Satellite Rx
FatShark Teleporter V3 5.8Ghz FPV System with stock antennas
GoPro Hero 2
Turnigy High Density LED strips, 1m of white, 1m of blue,
DIY mount for FPV cam and GoPro

I have flown it 3 times... Fully Loaded, but only LOS, the GF got to use the goggles though, haha. Last flight was 9min long and consumed 3000mah. I haven't weighed it yet as I don't have a suitable scale. Used recommended gain settings. I haven't balanced my props yet, or uploaded any video, but upon reviewing the gopro footage jello wasn't very noticeable at all, which was surprising considering it's basically just bolted to the frame.

I wanted a case that could hold everything fully assembled, and keep it relatively safe, but didn't need pelican protection or prices. I found a plastic case at WM, Sterilite 31"Lx17"WX14"H for $22... Just need to get some foam and or bungee's to secure things. it'll have enough room for all my gear (fully assembled heli, tx, fpv goggles, batteries)

Here are some pics... once I get some decent video I'll share it. definitely need to modify the LED's for night flying so they don't cause problems with the camera!

 

[Accupro]

OK I'll jump in - I have been following the thread and did post a couple of questions regarding the Hobbyking frames verses DJI, in any case I have been doing research since Jan and finally settled on the F550 primarily because of what I have learned from this thread. So next issue was do I do the full kit up or get one of the F550 RTF's? I happened to be sorta trolling on eBay and what do I find but a recently built, never flown, F550 with most of what I wanted and I purchased it from a guy in Washington. Here is what I got:

- F550 DJI
- NAZA M V2, w/GPS
- Compass Tilt Stand
- iOSD, DJI
- CANBuss
- NTM Propdrive 28 - 800KV motors
- 30A, Blue Ice ESC's
- RCTimer 10.5" Carbon Fiber Props
- 9XR w/FrSKY ACCST
- iPad Flight Control system 2.4G
- Legs and 2 Axis Gimbal
- GoPro 3
- 3S, 4500 Zippy

View attachment 17417View attachment 17419View attachment 17420View attachment 17421View attachment 17422

So I checked everything out got the latest Flight Assistant and I have a question. I'm seeing recommended gain settings in the DJI NAZA manual for like 140 to 170, while the default sets them from 100 to 125. I assumed when you set the hex configuration that the defaults settings for the gains would change accordingly but I'm not sure? What would everyone recommend for the F550 gain settings?

 

[CaptainJustice]

F450 quad mod by CaptainJustice

Thanks to Bart and all on this thread I successfully built a F450. I have about 60 flights on it. But that wasn't enough. Now:
(originally written for Facebook so some explanations not needed here)


It now has longer arms, bigger motors, runs bigger props, has a GoPro Hero 2 for photography, and I've just added a "pilot cam" and video transmitter which send video back to me to view on a 10" LCD monitor. I can switch between what the pilot cam sees (it's a view as if you are "in" the quadcopter) and what the GoPro is filming. Two nights ago I added and On Screen Display (OSD) which superimposes data on the video screen such as speed, height above takeoff point, direction back to home, battery voltage (i.e. how soon is it coming down!), and more. A package is enroute with a gimbal so I can tilt the camera up and down and compensate for roll to give a steadier image.


For those interested technically, it is:
DJI F450 frame
DJI NAZA-M V2 flight control system with GPS
Amdroix extended (by 50mm each) aluminum arms
SunnySky 3508-16 700KV motors
Props range from 10-12 inch - shown with 12x3.8 pitch
Video package from ReadyMadeRC, LLC with the 5.8Ghz system, pro700 camera, Fatshark 250mw transmitter w/ independent 450 mAh battery, UNO5800 receiver with 1350mAh battery for it and the LCD monitor
DJI iOSD mini on screen display
ATG generic landing skids
Lots of LEDs Jennifer Jones says too much
12 volt BEC (dc to dc converter) for lights
5 volt BEC for cameras
Gimbal is the Beholder by Team Rebel Design
AUW before the gimbal is 2300 grams. That will put it at 2600.


The transmitter is a Futaba 8FG Super with 14 channels and Futaba receiver. Mounted on that now is the 10" LCD monitor for the First Person View (FPV) flying. I have not yet been brave enough to fly solely FPV.


Some say it's lunacy. Who am I to argue....


My website at www.captainjustice.net will eventually have all the details and links to sources.

I use a couple of batteries (times are pre-gimbal):
Pulse 4100mAh - 10 minutes
Pulse 4500mAh - 12 minutes
Gensace 5500mAh - have not tested on this configuration yet.

The Video Receiver & monitor has a RMRC 1350mAh battery - no idea yet how long it will last - should be 10+ flights
Video transmitter has its own RMRC 450mAh battery
View attachment 17522 View attachment 17523 Pardon the wiring mess. Have not had a chance to dress that yet. I did a range test and brief maiden flight today with the FPV gear and it is awesome! Wind was 12kts and gusty so I did not dally.

 

[xsnowb27]

Hey guys, joining the party late I guess. I have been following this post for the past couple months and got the courage from enough reading to have bought what I hope is going to get me started in this. Got myself an F450 ARF kit with Naza M V2 with GPS and have been slowly building it the past couple weeks and just got my Futaba T10J today and going to figure out on finishing the build. Only thing I'm stuck on is trying to figure out the right batteries and charger. I've read Bart's battery post to try and become a ninja but so far I think I've barely made it past the white belt. What's everyone's recommendations on a good battery? I may end up beefing the quad up to an F550 in the future for FPV and GoPro use but at the moment I just want to get myself off the ground and at least learn but I am looking to expand in the future so really I guess I would rather buy once.

 

[CaptainJustice]

@xsnowb27
Based mostly on what I've read here and around other forums, and a little bit on personal experience so far, I'd say the following on batteries.
Go with 4s instead of 3s. Most people find the 4s on the stock DJI motors and even 10" props does just fine. DJI warns of overheating motors but I've not seen any postings where anyone ruined a motor doing that. And it gives you room to grow to that 550.

Minimum size would be 3300mAh and up to a 4500-5000mAh seems to be where most people wind up unless they are going for bigger motors/props, way longer flight times or a combination of needs.

I have come to like Pulse batteries. I've had good luck even on one I abused before I knew better, and the talk around the web is almost all positive.
The other battery I intend to try, again based on a lot of reading, is dinogy.

Read - ask - read again - build - repeat.

 

[xsnowb27]

Thanks Captain! I guess I'll start there and keep going and see where I get.

 

[Bartman]

Thanks Captain! I guess I'll start there and keep going and see where I get.

fwiw, the F450 I built for this thread has flown with two 5000mah packs attached to it. recall i'm not using the stock motors but they're not a huge upgrade either. with the stock motors on an F450 I'd say go for 5000mah packs provided you're not heavily loaded with a ton of other stuff. 5000mah packs will be usable on larger heli's if you happen to go that route and they'll give pretty decent flight times with your F450.

 

[Accupro]

Hey Bart where is your secret way of mounting a camera, being able to ........ that you mentioned back at the beginning of this thread - something you where looking into and going to be able to let us know??

 

[Bartman]

will be posting it this week. just need to shoot some sample footage of it in action. it's pretty trick, i think you guys are going to like it!

 

[Bartman]

hi everyone,

remember that spot in the video where i said i like to have a strap of velcro over the flight control because i don't trust sticky pads to hold things in place forever? i removed the velcro strap i had on my NAZA (why, I can't remember) and after my last flight i left the helicopter in my shop and the next day the NAZA was floating in space because it had become unstuck! the carpet tape did a good job but not good enough! i'm so f'in lucky the NAZA didn't unstick when I was flying it!

the moral of the story is to put a protective strap of velcro or something soft (so you won't be making it too rigid and causing it to experience an excess of airframe vibrations) so it can't pop itself unstuck.

bart

 

[gomotomoto]

hi everyone,

remember that spot in the video where i said i like to have a strap of velcro over the flight control because i don't trust sticky pads to hold things in place forever? i removed the velcro strap i had on my NAZA (why, I can't remember) and after my last flight i left the helicopter in my shop and the next day the NAZA was floating in space because it had become unstuck! the carpet tape did a good job but not good enough! i'm so f'in lucky the NAZA did unstick when I was flying it!

the moral of the story is to put a protective strap of velcro or something soft (so you won't be making it too rigid and causing it to experience an excess of airframe vibrations) so it can't pop itself unstuck.

bart

How do you feel about a bead of silicone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bartman]

between the cheek and gums or to hold the NAZA in place?

I'm of the belief at this point that if it isn't bolted in place like a Mikrokopter or Hoverfly flight control would be, then a strap of some sort is necessary. Sort of like the straps they put over a supercharger, it's bad when it gets loose so you might as well plan for it.

 

[JoeBob]

3m Dual Lock - I had to use a screwdriver to pop the FC loose when I changed plates.

View attachment 17623

There is a tiny amount of movement when it's locked down, but it's NOT coming off!

 

[CaptainJustice]

3m Dual Lock - I had to use a screwdriver to pop the FC loose when I changed plates.

There is a tiny amount of movement when it's locked down, but it's NOT coming off!

Is that "tiny bit" of movement possibly enough to cause problems with the FC?

 

[Bartman]

it's not the joint like velcro would have, it's the adhesive. dust, moisture, a little greasy residue from manufacturing and it might not stick as well as you'd expect. once the FC breaks loose, run like hell because the heli's going to go nuts. i nearly got knocked in the head on a first flight where the nylon hardware didn't last thirty seconds before the FC got loose and it came right at me.