CS8 to X8 conversion - Herkules ESC III V3
- Thread starter BorisS
- Start date
redridinghood
Member
No the ground should not be connected, as per Mr. Baier website.
Other than using some ferrite cores on the cables I see no other reason why the Herkules misbehaves.
Found some that click on and off: http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/gryphon_ferrite_core_clamp_filters_pack_gcf-1518-p-16142.html
Boris is your cine8 flying ok now? Maybe there is a problem with the Herkules firmware.
I hope to try mine soon, I am having some soldering issues :shame:
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
Japp at the moment i am on the ground. But before i had no more issues. I never got arround testing mid DEG firmware that would have been next. Up again in a week and i will report. Finally have the CS gimbal tuned in nicely with picloc and looking forward to some vids with it
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
site check out http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1851-Strange-pulsing-of-power.&p=19629#post19629 thread seems to be something similar !
Siteline
Member
Hey Red,
How does one determine how many poles is in the motor? I have the QC-3328's
BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
How many poles in the motor will not determine which timing or deg you need. There are other variables that play a role. It not really possible to determine from the beginning which timing/deg will be best. Best way is to stat with low timing. And consider the variabeles heat production motors ESCs/ flight time and flight behavior. I asked Andreas at the beginning and he also recommend to test threw from low timing.
redridinghood
Member
Poles are number of magnets on the outer rotating part of a brushless outrunner
Low Timing Advance
Timing Degrees – 5 & 10
Motor Poles – 2 to 4
Expected Performance – Good balance of power and efficiency
Motor Poles – 6 or more
Expected Performance – Best efficiency and run time (lowest power)
Standard Timing Advance
Timing Degrees – 15 & 20
Motor Poles – 6 to 12
Expected Performance – Good balance of power and efficiency
Motor Poles – 14 or more
Expected Performance – Best efficiency and run time (lowest power)
High Timing Advance
Timing Degrees – 25
Motor Poles – 12
Expected Performance – Highest power, less efficiency
Motor Poles – 14 or more
Expected Performance – Good balance of power and efficiency
Useful information:
http://homepage.mac.com/kmyersefo/timing/timing.htm
Siteline
Member
Here is a photo of the set up. The gps is out on boom #5 22cm away from the IMU semms to work great.
View attachment 2060
View attachment 2060
Attachments
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BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
sorry if this is right than i messed up,sorry hadmy info from andreas:
" Das Standard-Timing ist 24° !!! mit dem solltest du auf jeden Fall starten. Alles andere macht mit diesen Motoren keinen Sinn!
Standard ESCs bezeichnen mit Timing HI/LO genau das gleiche. Allerdings weis man nicht welches Timing tatsächlich dann gefahren wird.
Ich schätze mal Timing LO ist 24° und Timing HI ist 12° "
In german ne says nothing else than 24 is low and 12 is high, i am confused.
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BorisS
Drone Enthusiast
site our build is exactly the same also from the wiring and length of it so it cant be it !
redridinghood
Member
Boris this is getting way over my head.
But, if it's just a timing misfire issue changing the Herkules timing to faster should take care of it. If Andreas says DEG24 is low, then surely DEG18 or DEG12 will make motors sync and stop the misfire.
Why this motor timing issue is apparent only in DJI systems is beyond my understanding.
Siteline
Member
Hi Guys,
I went out this morning for a few test flights. First I made sure that the Herkules FW was set at 24DEG, I also loaded the new 5.0 WKM firmware, and put the APC 14X4.7 props on the bird. So, I took up and the "power surges" were completely gone.:tennis: Then I tried to Iron out the isolation's with som remote gain adjustments using X2 and X3. I started at 200% and went up with pitch and roll as I went higher up to 350% the isolation's became more rapid. If I went back down to 200% they got slower and less noticeable but were still there below 200% to 100% they became more exaggerated but still slow. There was no wind. I remember reading people having a difficult time getting the gains set on these larger crafts with large props so I thought I would re-visit the APC 12x 3.8's. With those Props on the "power surges" were back as they were yesterday maybe slightly less ( no wind today). Does this info point to something? It was sure nice to fly with out those unnerving power surges. Does this still point to timing of the ESC's? Is it going to be happier somewhere in the middle? Should I try a different FW on the Herks? I think this is progress anyways?
I went out this morning for a few test flights. First I made sure that the Herkules FW was set at 24DEG, I also loaded the new 5.0 WKM firmware, and put the APC 14X4.7 props on the bird. So, I took up and the "power surges" were completely gone.:tennis: Then I tried to Iron out the isolation's with som remote gain adjustments using X2 and X3. I started at 200% and went up with pitch and roll as I went higher up to 350% the isolation's became more rapid. If I went back down to 200% they got slower and less noticeable but were still there below 200% to 100% they became more exaggerated but still slow. There was no wind. I remember reading people having a difficult time getting the gains set on these larger crafts with large props so I thought I would re-visit the APC 12x 3.8's. With those Props on the "power surges" were back as they were yesterday maybe slightly less ( no wind today). Does this info point to something? It was sure nice to fly with out those unnerving power surges. Does this still point to timing of the ESC's? Is it going to be happier somewhere in the middle? Should I try a different FW on the Herks? I think this is progress anyways?
redridinghood
Member
Timing misfire usually happens at higher RPM, maybe the 14x4.7 slowed the rpm enough so the motors stayed in sync.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT_DQpho7bY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT_DQpho7bY
ichwillnix
Member
Hello all!
sorry for "not paying attention" to this very interesting thread. Boris asked me if i could join and give some comments. So here i am ;-)
First i want to clarify the issue with the timing:
24 deg is low (phase advance)
18deg is mid (phase advance)
12 deg is high (phase advance)
The phase advance is therefore always 30 degrees minus timing so
Timing 24deg = 6deg phase advance (low)
Timing 18deg = 12deg phase advance (mid)
Timing 12 deg = 18deg phase advance (high)
Second lets talk about the power surges. My ideas about whats going on?
1) The PPM Signal from DJI to Herkules is disturbed and Herkules reads a false pulse length or
2) The Firmware inside Herkules is not optimzed for DJI and maybe i need to optimize the digital input filters
3) The active Freewheeling is not continously on and steps in and out with light loads
Point 1) and 2) will be checked by us (me) this week together with some Sebastian from www.globe-flight.de. He hase its two own DJI System (Quadro and Okto) almost ready for tests.
Point 3) can be checked by you guys like already discussed. Please load into the Board the Firmware with active Freewheeling OFF (AFW0) and check if the surges are gone.
But be carefull! No AFW causes higher power losses in the ESC and then please dont load your Copter too much. So for high loads AFW1 is a must!
An option would be also to have AFW on (AFW1) and put a bit more weight on the Copter to see if the AFW is constantly on.
I will keep you on track with our test results.
Kind regards,
Andreas (ichwillnix)
sorry for "not paying attention" to this very interesting thread. Boris asked me if i could join and give some comments. So here i am ;-)
First i want to clarify the issue with the timing:
24 deg is low (phase advance)
18deg is mid (phase advance)
12 deg is high (phase advance)
The phase advance is therefore always 30 degrees minus timing so
Timing 24deg = 6deg phase advance (low)
Timing 18deg = 12deg phase advance (mid)
Timing 12 deg = 18deg phase advance (high)
Second lets talk about the power surges. My ideas about whats going on?
1) The PPM Signal from DJI to Herkules is disturbed and Herkules reads a false pulse length or
2) The Firmware inside Herkules is not optimzed for DJI and maybe i need to optimize the digital input filters
3) The active Freewheeling is not continously on and steps in and out with light loads
Point 1) and 2) will be checked by us (me) this week together with some Sebastian from www.globe-flight.de. He hase its two own DJI System (Quadro and Okto) almost ready for tests.
Point 3) can be checked by you guys like already discussed. Please load into the Board the Firmware with active Freewheeling OFF (AFW0) and check if the surges are gone.
But be carefull! No AFW causes higher power losses in the ESC and then please dont load your Copter too much. So for high loads AFW1 is a must!
An option would be also to have AFW on (AFW1) and put a bit more weight on the Copter to see if the AFW is constantly on.
I will keep you on track with our test results.
Kind regards,
Andreas (ichwillnix)
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Hi Andreas. That is more confused if possible. Can supose 24= 12 , 18=12 and 12 = 18 could be a different nomeclature in use. When AXI manufacturer talks about 24 deg timing advance for his engines it´s refered to the 24 deg you talk that is equal to 6 deg (low) or it´s based on the same nomeclature so the closest timing we can find is the 12deg = 18 deg (high). Other ESC manufacturers use low for small number of degrees (3,6,8 ..) and high for big number of degrees (24, 28 ...). Hope you cn explain that.
Danke schönn