Another Cinestar 8 and WKM

[Siteline]

From observation the basic gain settings have much to do with how well, or not, GPS hold works. With high basic gains and the lower ATTI gains the large frames need, GPS seems to easily go into TB mode. Being able to lower the basic gains helps a lot, but two things I've found that seem to make the most difference, get the IMU measurements as close as possible, and get rid of as much RFI as possible. That would include things like twisting the motor wires for the length of the run between motor and ESC and eliminating as much non shielded and straight run wires as possible. Also, and I know some people doing builds right now won't want to hear this but, get the power distribution board out of the center of the frame and out from underneath the IMU. The IMU gives off enough RFI as-is, it doesn't need any help in creating more and having the main power distribution directly below in the center of things seems to do exactly that. On both the CS6 and my Droidworx AD6 I've gone to the same power disti setup and elimated a lot of excess wiring, both have seen corresponding improvements in GPS performance. Coincidence? Maybe, but I'd be more willing to believe in a reduction of interference so the GPS can do what its supposed to.

Ken

RT, I'm trying out the Herkules right now so very few wires. But with these small props on I can move the GPS even further away down a boom. Right now it sits at 22cm away from the center of the center plate on boom 5. Do you have your gps further than that on your CS6?

 

[RTRyder]

RT, I'm trying out the Herkules right now so very few wires. But with these small props on I can move the GPS even further away down a boom. Right now it sits at 22cm away from the center of the center plate on boom 5. Do you have your gps further than that on your CS6?

-20cm from the IMU on boom #4 but only 10cm high. If/when I see a number of people have success with the Herc I'll think about making the swap. Until then I'm not into paying that much $ to try something out, or as I put it, pay full retail to be a beta tester yet again. BTDT...

Ken

 

[Droider]

I certainly would like to find a solution for longer flight times when adding our 5D.

''Hommmmmmm Hommmmmmm I predict a your wishes will come true in two months time! Hommm Hommmm"

Since meeting Jason Latimer and the Hoff last week I beleive I have been gifted the power of "HOFF" :tennis:

New battery tech IS out there.. It will be interesting to see if they are unveiled at Nuremberg next month...

They WILL be the game changers that rocket this platform to the forefront of the AP/AV world

Dave

 

[Skysurf]

Ken,

are you using the Harrier-Suprem(MT) V2 Series?

What's the best place to get these?

Thanks,

Jesper

 

[Garagelars]

I have spent quite a bit of time with WKM on all kinds of platforms and so far I cannot get adequate stability with professional payloads(big cameras) running 14inch(ish) props. Henning just stopped by on his way to Maui and brought his CineStar with WKM. The stability was OK in manual mode but really bad and wobbly in Atti and GPS. He was getting some really nice footage but only in manual mode which I am not sure most people are comfortable running.

The WKM is working nice on smaller stuff but so far not up to MK performance on the big stuff for me. I realize I could go down in prop size and perhaps get adequate performance but I am not willing to deal with the lower flight times and reduced efficiency.

I am hopeful that someone will figure out a combo that works for CineStar with WKM.

Tabb

I getting a bit concerned from what I have been reading in these threads, since I´m also in the middle of a CS6 with WKM build..

I have sacrificed my mk Okto-1 that I was in general very pleased with for 2-3 years, and decided to upgrade to the best possible setup for my wallet, concerning rigid frame, optimized gimbal etc..

However I am now getting second thoughts about my choice of new FC, maybe switch back to the mk stuff, and let the experimenting with WKM to those who find that interesting?

I really want to get up and running and shoot videos again when weather allows!

Setup on the building table:
CS6 and CS SLR mount
Picloc 3X
DJI WK-M
HW Pentium 40A
KK PWD board
TM 2814 motors
Graupner 11"x5 props (APC 14" in case of mk FC)

Aim to carry either a NEX-5, GH2 or HDC SD9 together with FPV equipment and 1 or 2 Turnigy 4S 6000 Nano..

BTW, Got the replacement CF parts Tabb! Most grateful, thank you..
(I could se the difference in dimensions also..)

//Lars

 

[RTRyder]

I getting a bit concerned from what I have been reading in these threads, since I´m also in the middle of a CS6 with WKM build..

I have sacrificed my mk Okto-1 that I was in general very pleased with for 2-3 years, and decided to upgrade to the best possible setup for my wallet, concerning rigid frame, optimized gimbal etc..

However I am now getting second thoughts about my choice of new FC, maybe switch back to the mk stuff, and let the experimenting with WKM to those who find that interesting?

I really want to get up and running and shoot videos again when weather allows!

Setup on the building table:
CS6 and CS SLR mount
Picloc 3X
DJI WK-M
HW Pentium 40A
KK PWD board
TM 2814 motors
Graupner 11"x5 props (APC 14" in case of mk FC)

Aim to carry either a NEX-5, GH2 or HDC SD9 together with FPV equipment and 1 or 2 Turnigy 4S 6000 Nano..

BTW, Got the replacement CF parts Tabb! Most grateful, thank you..
(I could se the difference in dimensions also..)

//Lars

With that setup and the cameras you plan to use I think you'll be happy with it. If you were planning to hang a Red Epic under it like Tabb does then you'd have some problems, smaller, lighter cameras produce very nice video on the CS/WKM platform.

Right now I'm waiting to see the DJI Zenmuse gimbal, if it lives up to the pre-release hype it will be a game changer, at least for anyone using cameras up into the 5D range. I'm doing my best to get one in my hands as soon as possible but thats still several weeks away from what I've been told. Likely won't help for the bigger cameras, this mount isn't designed for the larger size and weight, for that you'll still need the CS gimbal.

I also have a DJI datalink with Click and Go waypoint that I'm testing (if the weather ever decides to cooperate!) that so far seems to be a much better setup than what MK has. By the time spring comes around I hope to have a fully featured platform with the "uber gimbal", waypoint ground station, and maybe even that slick looking TX/Video display setup.

I think I've finally figured out what the real translation of Wookong is, it means "we own your wallet" !

Ken

 

[Siteline]

''Hommmmmmm Hommmmmmm I predict a your wishes will come true in two months time! Hommm Hommmm"

Since meeting Jason Latimer and the Hoff last week I beleive I have been gifted the power of "HOFF" :tennis:

New battery tech IS out there.. It will be interesting to see if they are unveiled at Nuremberg next month...

They WILL be the game changers that rocket this platform to the forefront of the AP/AV world

Dave

Hehe, that's fun news Droider! 2 months is an eternity in this business. Do you have any more details?

 

[Garagelars]

Great! Makes me feel a bit more confident anyway.. :dejection:

As many with me, I hate to compromise, and want to have the one platform suitable for any eventuality...

I went for the hexa version of the CS due to size primarily, and also the use for my Graupner Hott RX that will need separate esc cables and still have two left for the gimbal on the DJI unit.

Thing is, that I haven´t really seen any results/films taken with a hexa xl (CS,DW whatever) with the WK-M setup yet.. only quite impressive shots made with the CS with mk FC so far.
Correct me if I´m wrong...

I´m not on the other hand married to either one of the systems, and would easily swap back to mk if that shows to be the safest way to go..

//Lars

 

[RTRyder]

Thing is, that I haven´t really seen any results/films taken with a hexa xl (CS,DW whatever) with the WK-M setup yet.. only quite impressive shots made with the CS with mk FC so far.

//Lars

Ok then, here's three that were made with the WKM in a hex configuration, first one was the very first attempt at doing a video with the WKM on a hex frame with a Photohigher AV130 and Sony Nex 5n... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiRbbqi5z2w

This one was the first time I flew the CineStar6/WKM someplace other than test flights at my house... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15PoAcVCgho

And this is the best video I've done to date with the CS6/WKM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG_BmNcz264

All done with the same camera and gimbal combination. If I can manage to match some free time with a window of decent weather I'll have a lot more. Right now things are quite busy with work and when I'm free it's been raining, blowing a gale, or snowing, no chance to get out someplace with the CS and do some flying for far too long.

Ken

 

[Garagelars]

Ok then, here's three that were made with the WKM in a hex configuration, first one was the very first attempt at doing a video with the WKM on a hex frame with a Photohigher AV130 and Sony Nex 5n... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiRbbqi5z2w

This one was the first time I flew the CineStar6/WKM someplace other than test flights at my house... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15PoAcVCgho

And this is the best video I've done to date with the CS6/WKM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG_BmNcz264

All done with the same camera and gimbal combination. If I can manage to match some free time with a window of decent weather I'll have a lot more. Right now things are quite busy with work and when I'm free it's been raining, blowing a gale, or snowing, no chance to get out someplace with the CS and do some flying for far too long.

Ken

Thanks Ken!
Really smooth and calm footage you got there... Gimbal stabilization seems to perform very well also. I wonder how it performs if you fly fast around, banking like it a plane? Dont know if you ever fly like that, but I sometimes do to get more of the "impression of actually flying" in the video..

For the comparison, have you flown an mk setup before? would be interesting to hear what you say about WK-M if you tried them both...

Still not convinced not to go for the mk setup with the CS6 for my purposes..(Not so keen about starting experimenting with FWs, gains, props, CGs, ESC´s to get airborn)
Even though I now got the complete DJI setup on my workbench.. I would easily buy a new mk setup again if it means a "trouble free" way to get best flexible platform possible..

//Lars

 

[RTRyder]

Thanks Ken!
Really smooth and calm footage you got there... Gimbal stabilization seems to perform very well also. I wonder how it performs if you fly fast around, banking like it a plane? Dont know if you ever fly like that, but I sometimes do to get more of the "impression of actually flying" in the video..

For the comparison, have you flown an mk setup before? would be interesting to hear what you say about WK-M if you tried them both...

Still not convinced not to go for the mk setup with the CS6 for my purposes..(Not so keen about starting experimenting with FWs, gains, props, CGs, ESC´s to get airborn)
Even though I now got the complete DJI setup on my workbench.. I would easily buy a new mk setup again if it means a "trouble free" way to get best flexible platform possible..

//Lars

Ok, for that you need to look at this video, not a hex this time but a small quad built on an MK frame and carrying a 2 axis direct drive GoPro mount underneath. The faster banking stuff starts at 3:25 if you just want to cut to the chase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJlxAWbEkRQ The last 1:30 I fly down the field, stop, trigger failsafe, then put the TX on the ground and watch it fly back and land itself. Ultimately it wound up setting down about 1 meter frim where it took off, neither of my MK can do that with anything close to that degree of GPS accuracy. At the time this quad had a WKM on it, I've since swapped the WKM for a DJI Naza controller and see no difference in how it flys. The WKM I used to replace the MK electronics stack on my Droidworx AD6 which never quite flew the way I wanted it to on the MK gear, now it flys much better.

I've been flying two MK hexa for about 2 years now, prior to my first WKM I flew one or both pretty much every weekend. Since I built my first WKM I rarely use the box stock MK hexa V1 and I swapped out the MK electronics on the other with the second WKM I bought that was on the quad. I have another frame I'd install a third WKM on if they weren't so d**m expensive. My hope is that the Naza controller will get GPS position hold for a not too expensive price tag, that would make a nice alternative for a small APV rig that doesn't need waypoints and all the bells and whistles that are being added to the WKM. As long as it could hold position and do RTH, I'd be perfectly OK with that and probably sell off whatever remaining MK gear I have.

On a final note, I would never refer to MK flight systems as "trouble free". While I've had good luck with mine to this point I've learned the hard way about MK firmware upgrades and letting others be the beta testers. These days I wait for the third or fourth bug fix release before switching to a newer version and lately I've stopped upgrading altogether. I think my original V1 Hexa is on .82 and it will probably stay there, everything works as well as an MK can and it flys well with no bad habits like flipping or flying away for no apparent reason. These days this is pretty much what I use the hexa for... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkmqjhueT4Y I also have a video TX on it that I plug into the GoPro and do a little FPV with it as well.

That said, lately I'm tempted to take the MK stack that I removed from the Droidworx and install it on the CS6 just to see what kind/how much of a differnce there is between the two when everything else is exactly the same, I think that might be a worthwhile experiment.

Ken

 

[Garagelars]

Ok, I believe you have about the same experience with the mk as myself then..

In my case it has been quite "trouble free" , (although I have got stuck sometimes when upgrading the FW) but In any case always been satisfied with the latest FW installed.

I am also convinced that the fantastic and accurate "RTH", "PH" and "Auto Land-FS" feature that WK-M provides, has totally blinded the whole community of MR flyers, and has become the no 1 argument for the choice of WK-M as flight control, instead of flight characteristics. (I have not once in my years of flying yet used any fail safe feature, nock on wood ).

We will see in a couple of days which way I will go, or if I even end up with both systems parallel.. (felt some real pain in my wallet now).

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences! Most valuable..

//Lars

 

[Garagelars]

Ok, I believe you have about the same experience with the mk as myself then..

In my case it has been quite "trouble free" , (although I have got stuck sometimes when upgrading the FW) but In any case always been satisfied with the latest FW installed.

I am also convinced that the fantastic and accurate "RTH", "PH" and "Auto Land-FS" feature that WK-M provides, has totally blinded the whole community of MR flyers, and has become the no 1 argument for the choice of WK-M as flight control, instead of flight characteristics. (I have not once in my years of flying yet used any fail safe feature, nock on wood ).

We will see in a couple of days which way I will go, or if I even end up with both systems parallel.. (felt some real pain in my wallet now).

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences! Most valuable..

//Lars

I have now decided to give the WK-M a shot as I invested so much in it already! Already started of with adapting the KK PWD board to the CS frame, will start soldering next...

Pics will come further on! :black_eyed:

//Lars

 

[Vortex Aerial]

Used the settings Geoff suggested and with a bit of reduction in the numbers got the CS8 to fly the best ive ever seen it do so far. Wind was only about 3 MPH but before it would pitch and roll badly with the old settings. Will try APC 12x6 very soon and also 12x3.8sf. May try high timing as well. Notice that at this weight, and with the 13x6.5 APCs used now, it only pulls 60amps in a hover. Thats not even 8 amps per ESC and only about 150 watts per motor. Its not even breaking a sweat and the thing just has monster power as well which kind of tells me that maybe the HW 40amp Platinums are operating some where beneath there sweet spot and perhaps this may justify smaller props. This is a total guess on my part.

 

[Siteline]

What was your camera load? Good news!

 

[Vortex Aerial]

Its got a CS 2 axis mount and carries a Sony FS100. Think between the 2 its about 5 Lbs.

 

[Siteline]

That's great thank you. Did you have short flight times with the 13X6.5 (below 7min)?

 

[Vortex Aerial]

At 8 minutes it was taking 4 amps out of 5.3amp 4S twins

 

[Vortex Aerial]

Here is a vid of the CS8 in a good amount of wind. 12x6 APC props.
After the vid uploaded, remembered that there was no compass calibration done. Plus the GPS "Y" value is set to zero even though the GPS is behind the CG.
GPS mode through the entire vid. Balasted with batteries hanging underneath. 14.5 Lbs AUW

http://vimeo.com/35599294

 

[UAVproducts]

Here is a vid of the CS8 in a good amount of wind. 12x6 APC props.
After the vid uploaded, remembered that there was no compass calibration done. Plus the GPS "Y" value is set to zero even though the GPS is behind the CG.
GPS mode through the entire vid. Balasted with batteries hanging underneath. 14.5 Lbs AUW

http://vimeo.com/35599294

Chris,

Very impressive!!!!!

It should be better when you get the calibration and Y offset adjusted.

Keep the updates coming.

I have two Skyjib 8's nearing completion.