A2 Dilemma

[kloner]

It flies just like my a2.... super smooth and event free....

But it doesn't have a motor out algo, at least one i made it to and it scares the crap out of me from that aspect. there suppose to release a new firmware shortly and i'm hoping it includes something to at least address it.... otherwise this faa exemption were getting aint gonna let it fly.

I'm ready for synapse.....

 

[Droider]

It flies just like my a2.... super smooth and event free....

But it doesn't have a motor out algo, at least one i made it to and it scares the crap out of me from that aspect. there suppose to release a new firmware shortly and i'm hoping it includes something to at least address it.... otherwise this faa exemption were getting aint gonna let it fly.

I'm ready for synapse.....

Yeah synapse right.. it wont happen. I would rather have a FC that was predictable with out motor loss algo rather than one that has but is totally unpredictable.. Lets see what do we have... AH the WKM!

 

[SamaraMedia]

It flies just like my a2.... super smooth and event free....

But it doesn't have a motor out algo, at least one i made it to and it scares the crap out of me from that aspect. there suppose to release a new firmware shortly and i'm hoping it includes something to at least address it.... otherwise this faa exemption were getting aint gonna let it fly.

I'm ready for synapse.....

So you got an exemption? That's great!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[gtranquilla]

Most GPS receivers are able to complete their software handshaking to the attached smart device by means of an NMEA driver. In the case of DJI GPS modules it also has to be able to communicate thru CanBus communication protocol. So there is a bit more happening behind the scenes at one but most likely both ends.

Bart I discussed this with a tech and the problem is that the GPS is just a receiver. All a diagnosis will do is tell you if you are receiving a signal or not. It cannot stress test the product. DJI has introduced many diagnostic programs in the A2 and their other controllers that will not allow motor arming and take off until the issue is resolved. Compass calibration and bad IMU data are two of those programs.

 

[xahhax]

I think that fundamentally the problem is the usage of those drones outgrew and outpaced manufacturers and regulators.
DJI found themselves - opportunistically - in a market segment which maybe they did not intend to compete in and they did not fully understand the implications.
All because there is not really a widely accepted high-end FC for large UAV - or at least I am not aware of it.

So all SW and HW development process, testing protocols, qualification process are just not at the level it should be.

The problem is this may create issue when it comes to regulations.
Maybe it is an opportunity as well. If regulation means manufacturers need to run their FC (including firmware revisions thereof) through a very strict protocol - I am all for it.

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Most GPS receivers are able to complete their software handshaking to the attached smart device by means of an NMEA driver. In the case of DJI GPS modules it also has to be able to communicate thru CanBus communication protocol. So there is a bit more happening behind the scenes at one but most likely both ends.

You very well may be right. I am not an engineer.

 

[gtranquilla]

Evidence of a great separation between society and technology started a very long time ago ref: the Luddites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
Unfortunately not all were hung such that many work today amongst us but in non-technical areas such as media, politics etc. where, all too often it seems they still do more harm than good....;-)

I think that fundamentally the problem is the usage of those drones outgrew and outpaced manufacturers and regulators.
DJI found themselves - opportunistically - in a market segment which maybe they did not intend to compete in and they did not fully understand the implications.
All because there is not really a widely accepted high-end FC for large UAV - or at least I am not aware of it.

So all SW and HW development process, testing protocols, qualification process are just not at the level it should be.

The problem is this may create issue when it comes to regulations.
Maybe it is an opportunity as well. If regulation means manufacturers need to run their FC (including firmware revisions thereof) through a very strict protocol - I am all for it.

 

[JLO]

Just as DJI comes out to advertise a new product in this forum they should come out and acknowledge that there are issues with the A2, or defend that there are no issues with the A2, I also would like to read something related to the A2 issues from the big DJI dealers to voice an opinion what ever it is, the dealers many are RTF HL builders and sell the A2 or they just quietly don't use the A2 for their builds, the dealers have a more direct connection with DJI,.... anyone...like from Aerial Media Pro.... Patrick.... or Kopterworx ....Lanzar for example..... or any other dealer perhaps.....anyone!!!.....

 

[Droider]

Just as DJI comes out to advertise a new product in this forum they should come out and acknowledge that there are issues with the A2, or defend that there are no issues withe the A2, I also would like to read something related to the A2 issues from the big DJI dealers to voice an opinion what ever it is, the dealers many are RTF HL builders and sell the A2 or they just quietly don't use the A2 for their builds, the dealers have a more direct connection with DJI,.... anyone...like from Aerial Media Pro.... Patrick.... or Kopterworx ....Lanzar for example..... or any other dealer perhaps.....anyone!!!.....

Or the self-proclaimed masters of everything multi rotor, quadcopters in the UK, what about HeliGuy, Koptercraft, Buzzflyer, Multirotorcraft! You won't hear diddlysquat!

D

 

[rilot]

Or the self-proclaimed masters of everything multi rotor, quadcopters in the UK, what about HeliGuy, Koptercraft, Buzzflyer, Multirotorcraft! You won't hear diddlysquat!

D

Heliguy really didn't want me to buy an A2. They pretty much said that if I bought one I would be on my own.

 

[Droider]

Heliguy really didn't want me to buy an A2. They pretty much said that if I bought one I would be on my own.

And they recon to be the DJI service centre in the UK as the European one in Germany is EIGHT WEEKS behind on repairs!

 

[Bryharv]

Apparently WKM is now suffering the same sort of failure rates as the A2. I know of one highly experienced operator who's had 3 loss of flight control crashes since March on the supposedly stable WKM 5.16. And look at the boards - there's several recent flyaway, spin of death crashes. The scary thing about these crashes is that everything seems fine for many hours and then out of the blue, total loss of flight control. Perhaps there's some faulty hardware part that more recent WKM's shares with the A2 that fails over time. If you have an older WKM thats been working for years, then its probably good ( I wish I had kept mine). But if you buy a more recent WKM then I'd be just as scared flying it as the A2.

I used to defend DJI as I felt DJI had more crashes simply because they have exponentially more flight controllers out there than all the others combined. I no longer feel that way. It may be anecdotal evidence from reading these boards, but I do not feel I can trust ANY flight controller from DJI. I am eagerly researching an alternative, and the A2 is coming off my machine as soon as possible. SuperX or the Gemini are what Im looking at.

As an aside, I NEVER got my A2 to fly anywhere near as locked in as my WKM.

Yeah synapse right.. it wont happen. I would rather have a FC that was predictable with out motor loss algo rather than one that has but is totally unpredictable.. Lets see what do we have... AH the WKM!

 

[ovdt]

Apparently WKM is now suffering the same sort of failure rates as the A2. I know of one highly experienced operator who's had 3 loss of flight control crashes since March on the supposedly stable WKM 5.16. And look at the boards - there's several recent flyaway, spin of death crashes. The scary thing about these crashes is that everything seems fine for many hours and then out of the blue, total loss of flight control. Perhaps there's some faulty hardware part that more recent WKM's shares with the A2 that fails over time. If you have an older WKM thats been working for years, then its probably good ( I wish I had kept mine). But if you buy a more recent WKM then I'd be just as scared flying it as the A2.

I used to defend DJI as I felt DJI had more crashes simply because they have exponentially more flight controllers out there than all the others combined. I no longer feel that way. It may be anecdotal evidence from reading these boards, but I do not feel I can trust ANY flight controller from DJI. I am eagerly researching an alternative, and the A2 is coming off my machine as soon as possible. SuperX or the Gemini are what Im looking at.

As an aside, I NEVER got my A2 to fly anywhere near as locked in as my WKM.

Bryan,

Why aren't you looking at Mikrokopter FC route?

 

[JLO]

And to bang on the same drum on and on it is not the same to crash phantoms or smaller copters with Naza FC than crashing copters using A2 or a WKM FC this copters generally are heavier lift copters with expensive gimbals cameras etc plus the weight and size makes them very very dangerous, the frustrating part is that no one (that I Know) with true inside knowledge has come out to defend anything, to argue in favor, to analyze the problem in a in-depth objective way, we only have a good number of unfortunate users that had this bad experience, I for one have NOT had a suden surprise A2 go crazy yet....am I a ticking crash ..... I bet there are many others.....what are we suppose to do continue flying hope for the best..... until my no support from DJI A2 decides to go nuts and crash?... what is the responsable thing to do, can a A2 users return an undamaged A2 unit to DJI........I doubt they will take a return.........think about it... you buy it and is yours wether it works or not........

 

[Droider]

Bryan,

Why aren't you looking at Mikrokopter FC route?

Aye Up OVDT, how are you? Has the MK developed into a user friendly system? I just could not justify it commercially. Do they still want loads of Euros to use it commercially?

I would love there to be a DJI alternative, maybe Align may be up to the mark but I would love to see MK/Synopsis come a into the market as a commercial FC

D

 

[stj5353]

@ Bry - Your post was the first I've heard about the Gemini. Based on my initial googl'ing, those guys seem to have a nice product. Even double redundant parts including flight controller. I wish I would have known about them before buying the Wookong. They are about 1k for their system. A bit cheaper than DJI. And looking at their website, it seems that they are actively pursuing the product, pushing out releases and documentation (albeit in mixed english) to date. I may ebay the wookong if I hear more people's first hand experience with the Gemini.

 

[Ronan]

@ Bry - Your post was the first I've heard about the Gemini. Based on my initial googl'ing, those guys seem to have a nice product. Even double redundant parts including flight controller. I wish I would have known about them before buying the Wookong. They are about 1k for their system. A bit cheaper than DJI. And looking at their website, it seems that they are actively pursuing the product, pushing out releases and documentation (albeit in mixed english) to date. I may ebay the wookong if I hear more people's first hand experience with the Gemini.

Gemini is about 2k not 1k... So quite a chunk of money.

This is scary since the S900 comes with WKM or A2... and i'm not sure which one to choose. Then i read threads like this, and it scares me.

 

[stj5353]

I can find it online for 1k. Check out fpv style dot com. USD 999.00 for the -M redundant system.

 

[Ronan]

I can find it online for 1k. Check out fpv style dot com. USD 999.00 for the -M redundant system.

http://fpvstyle.com/item/ZERO-GEMINI-Autopilot-System-For-Multirotor-801718.html
$1799. Website i mentioned earlier: http://www.fpvmodel.com/zero-uav-ge...dundancy-autopilot-for-multi-rotors_g480.html

Gemini requires both the M and S to have dual redundancy. So 2k basically to have the gemini redundancy.

 

[Jumpy07]

I would love to get to the bottom of the issues people are having with the A2, personally I have not experienced any major problems since buying my A2 last Oct.. I did report the GPS issues on 2.1 to DJI.. but got no reply.. and they subsequently released 2.2 which solved the issues for me.

Unlike some of the other FC's i have flown in the past I find it very reliable and predictable.. I have flown a lot of different FC's in the past and believe me i have had my share of crashes due to bugs in code.

I am using external SBUS RX, FrSky X8R, iOSD mk2, Datalink and Z15 Zenmuse.. on a Hex with Tiger Motors and Hobbywing Plat Pro ESC's.. not sure if my lack of issues is down to my configuration or not..

I have pulled my flight logs off.. rough estimates of flight times on each firmware version below. (since 2.2 I have been using the A2 on my AP rig commercially)

Please note: I am NO DJI fanboy, their service sucks and I have been damning of them in a few threads if you search... but so far I cant fault the A2 .. maybe I am lucky.. or more likely is down to my configuration .. or as others had said possibly there is a faulty batch of GPS pucks out there..

Looking round the forums.. I do see more people reporting issues on this forum than others.. and a lot of these seem to be in the UK.. could his be down to a faulty batch of A2's sent to UK dealers mostly..

TBH I have no scientific evidence of what is causing these reported problems.. nor do i think anyone else has....many things can cause a crash.. DJI's silence does not help.. more assistance in getting to the bottom of these crashes you think would be in their interest..

I notice a few threads people have started asking for more details of the set ups on aircraft that have crashed .. but not many people replying to them... not sure why this is the case.. but I have my own ideas..