A2 Dilemma

[Old Man]

My issues with an A2 seem to come down to a defective LED and compass. The LED was overcome with one from a Wookong but apparently the compass issue overcame the copter. If a maker is not checking the quality of parts then the rest of the unit cannot be expected to function correctly. Hope your run of luck continues.


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[Buzz_Roavr]

As a relatively new user of these systems these threads fill me with dread. Are insurers paying out on these crashes? John Heath (my insurer) have the best part of £700.00 off me a year so I do hope so!

I too (as a Heli pilot) have high hopes for the Align multis when they arrive.

Time will tell I guess!


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[ovdt]

Hello Droider,

I have to disagree about you say about MK system. Being in a fancy enclosure doesn't make a product friendly. When setting up a DJI system, you have to figure out ESC settings, throttle calibration, tx calibration etc. For MK system, you just need to solder motor leads, almost, and that's all. With their current BL controllers (ESC) no need to solder for motor addressing etiher. Just need to plug motor leads. It's possible to buy RTF systems from companies like quadrocopter, so no need to worry about these details too. (As a note, with the latest firmware, I fly my every copter with stock settings and they all fly amazing)

Nearly all of the DJI product owners complain about bad customer support. No response, tons of warranty problems. If you would have the same problem with MK electronics, you would find your answer in a few hours; you can even talk to the leader of product development (Holger) in person. Especially over freefly forums, there are dozens of users who had perferct customer support from them. Personally, my broken board was replaced within 3 days. They even write special firmware in case there is a problem with your hardware and release it publicly.

The money you pay is almost same.

The performance is superb and these products are dependable with expectable results every time.

The elemetry and data logging features are one of the best out there. A2 users send data to DJI and wait for an answer? With the detailed log, if you had an uncommanded yaw failure, you would understand if it was a bad gyro or not just within a minute. You wouldn't wonder "what the heck was that?".

With MK FC 2.5, the AH is more precise. There was an addon for 2.1 boards also which improved AH a lot.

There are some drawbacks though:

* Their newest BL Controller is capable of runnig maximum Tiger U5 or KDE 4014XF motors. If you need bigger motors, the stock MK components doesn't serve you.
* For good GPS performance, you need good antenna, in this case a GPS shield. Then you are good to go.
* The electronics are naked. This is good and also bad. Bad, because it's vulnerable and ugly. (Spraying some conformal coating ensures it's safe for weather changes & humidity). Good, because you can see if there's something wrong with the components. For instance, are you having a bad GPS reception suddely? You take look to the battery under the GPS, and if it's there you change it and you're good to go.


I had my lesson from DJI. I had a fault IMU unit and it took them 4 months to replace it. Once I got it, I sold it and never considered them again.

They do good frames now, I'm considering naked S900 though. Electronics, no!

 

[kloner]

I woulda been down that road if it wasn't for sitting here watching these bl burn up randomly and not being very easy to work on.... that and being so low rated of parts as in u5 or smaller. i've flown two cinestars with these on em and they weren't as smooth as i had mine but i didn't set em up so maybe it was on the guys that owned them

 

[Droider]

Hello Droider,

I have to disagree about you say about MK system. Being in a fancy enclosure doesn't make a product friendly. When setting up a DJI system, you have to figure out ESC settings, throttle calibration, tx calibration etc. For MK system, you just need to solder motor leads, almost, and that's all. With their current BL controllers (ESC) no need to solder for motor addressing etiher. Just need to plug motor leads. It's possible to buy RTF systems from companies like quadrocopter, so no need to worry about these details too. (As a note, with the latest firmware, I fly my every copter with stock settings and they all fly amazing)

Nearly all of the DJI product owners complain about bad customer support. No response, tons of warranty problems. If you would have the same problem with MK electronics, you would find your answer in a few hours; you can even talk to the leader of product development (Holger) in person. Especially over freefly forums, there are dozens of users who had perferct customer support from them. Personally, my broken board was replaced within 3 days. They even write special firmware in case there is a problem with your hardware and release it publicly.

The money you pay is almost same.

The performance is superb and these products are dependable with expectable results every time.

The elemetry and data logging features are one of the best out there. A2 users send data to DJI and wait for an answer? With the detailed log, if you had an uncommanded yaw failure, you would understand if it was a bad gyro or not just within a minute. You wouldn't wonder "what the heck was that?".

With MK FC 2.5, the AH is more precise. There was an addon for 2.1 boards also which improved AH a lot.

There are some drawbacks though:

* Their newest BL Controller is capable of runnig maximum Tiger U5 or KDE 4014XF motors. If you need bigger motors, the stock MK components doesn't serve you.
* For good GPS performance, you need good antenna, in this case a GPS shield. Then you are good to go.
* The electronics are naked. This is good and also bad. Bad, because it's vulnerable and ugly. (Spraying some conformal coating ensures it's safe for weather changes & humidity). Good, because you can see if there's something wrong with the components. For instance, are you having a bad GPS reception suddely? You take look to the battery under the GPS, and if it's there you change it and you're good to go.


I had my lesson from DJI. I had a fault IMU unit and it took them 4 months to replace it. Once I got it, I sold it and never considered them again.

They do good frames now, I'm considering naked S900 though. Electronics, no!

Hi OVDT

One thing is for sure. I spent more money for far less airtime with MK. Their arrogance was unrivalled. Getting any response from tech support was almost impossible, just a link to the forum.

DJI probably work them up. i really have no reason to go back to MK, although I am sure lots of people love them I need to fly not faff.

If I had more money than sense and loads of spare time to trial one I would probably look at the system again. Its telemetry was /is the best out there.

Dave

 

[JLO]

Guys do we know or have an idea if some of the A2 crashes where in flat copters, or Coax copters, or both?

 

[kloner]

We have officialy decided to ditch the a2... guess it'll go on the shelf cause no way i can sell it in good faith

really sucks, i love how it flies and we got alot invested in it and an iosd.

 

[Clogz]

We have officialy decided to ditch the a2... guess it'll go on the shelf cause no way i can sell it in good faith

really sucks, i love how it flies and we got alot invested in it and an iosd.

Same here....I've not really had any problems but am considering getting a SuperX for evaluation and pause buying any more A2's for now....

 

[jdennings]

We have officialy decided to ditch the a2... guess it'll go on the shelf cause no way i can sell it in good faith

really sucks, i love how it flies and we got alot invested in it and an iosd.

What's your preferred fall back at this point? Do you see much difference between a2 and wkm quality of flight wise? SuperX?

 

[kloner]

were going to straight superX for now... a2 for me flew alot better than my wookong.... and we never saw anything weird from it, but it feels like a ticking time bomb

 

[R_Lefebvre]

The elemetry and data logging features are one of the best out there. A2 users send data to DJI and wait for an answer? With the detailed log, if you had an uncommanded yaw failure, you would understand if it was a bad gyro or not just within a minute. You wouldn't wonder "what the heck was that?".

This, IMO, is one of the biggest problems with DJI. After looking at a user's logs, there's just no way to figure anything out from what they are recording. In fact, I can't see any way DJI engineers could figure out anything, or debug the code, based on what I saw in that file. Now, maybe it logs a bunch more, and the consumer GUI only shows some of it. I don't know. But from what I saw, there's absolutely no way to troubleshoot based on the end user logs. This really is a two-pronged problem. In my experience, 90% of crashes are user error, or electro-mechanical failures. But if the logging isn't good enough to show this, users tend to blame the "magic" going on inside the flight controller. And then for the other 10% of crashes caused by the flight controller, there's no way the software engineers can debug it without adequate datalogs.

One of the most basic things, is logging of the desired roll/pitch/yaw, with the actual roll/pitch/yaw. This is the easiest way to see if the external system (the electro-mechanical bits) have failed and the system has departed controlled flight. This makes it very easy see when a motor has failed, in fact, I can usually tell users which motor failed. But from what I saw, the DJI logs only show Actual RPY, not what the FC is trying to achieve. So no way to know if the FC forced the crash due to some error, or if the failure was external.

 

[jdennings]

One of the main reasons I use Pixhawk primarily for filming vs wkm, especially now with dual gps and mags. I can live with crashes, but cannot with unexplained ones.
But if time is money, one sure ends up paying a hefty price for that ...

 

[Basil-cs]

A friend of mine is a Dji dealer in the UK (although not one of the big vendors mentioned) and when I asked him last week whether to go for a WKM or A2 he emphatically told me to get the WKM. Apparently of the last 4 lots of A2 systems he sold, 3 were returned with faults.

 

[Ronan]

A friend of mine is a Dji dealer in the UK (although not one of the big vendors mentioned) and when I asked him last week whether to go for a WKM or A2 he emphatically told me to get the WKM. Apparently of the last 4 lots of A2 systems he sold, 3 were returned with faults.

Interesting. We were having a chat about that and in the US, we asked my dealer and another one, both among the largest DJI dealers in the US, how many A2 were returned to them for issues. Zero.

I recall a few people having issues with them, weren't they mostly all from the UK? Maybe a bad batch was sent there, or simply older stock?

 

[gael]

I'm reading every thing about the A2 on this forum.
In french forum, nothing appears, no issue. Mine work great too. But after reading all those negative post, i lost the confidence with this fc...
Psychose ?

 

[Old Man]

Interesting. We were having a chat about that and in the US, we asked my dealer and another one, both among the largest DJI dealers in the US, how many A2 were returned to them for issues. Zero.

I recall a few people having issues with them, weren't they mostly all from the UK? Maybe a bad batch was sent there, or simply older stock?

I have a friend that works in one of those locations assembling the aircraft. One of our conversations definitely contradicts what you were told. He said they have had their share if issues with A2. I think you were told what DJI wants their dealers to say, which is to deny there are any issues at all.


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[Ronan]

I have a friend that works in one of those locations assembling the aircraft. One of our conversations definitely contradicts what you were told. He said they have had their share if issues with A2. I think you were told what DJI wants their dealers to say, which is to deny there are any issues at all.


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Doubt it. They were honestly surprised. They have no reason to lie, and would lose a lot for doing so.

 

[Old Man]

In the instance I mentioned the individual assembles and test flies the aircraft prior to them being shipped to the customers. He referenced a number of experienced issues. OTH, since they are doing the assemblies and shake down flights I doubt they would get many returns since the problem units are caught before they went out the door. Perhaps that is why they do as they do, to prevent the bad vibes that are generated by poorly performing products.

Just to be fair I will state that I am one of those that had issues with the A2 in the United States, and rather than risk a large and expensive custom rig installed it on a much smaller rig that should have been simple for the most basic FC to control. It crashed 10 minutes into the first flight in a flip of death type event. After having already spent several months attempting to obtain resolution through the dealer, DJI support, and DJI direct I simply gave up on it and tossed in the corner to gather dust. Time is money and too much of both were wasted with that unit. I am not sponsored, supported, or affiliated with any MR or hobby product, company, or vendor, the above is purely personal experience.

 

[Ronan]

In the instance I mentioned the individual assembles and test flies the aircraft prior to them being shipped to the customers. He referenced a number of experienced issues. OTH, since they are doing the assemblies and shake down flights I doubt they would get many returns since the problem units are caught before they went out the door. Perhaps that is why they do as they do, to prevent the bad vibes that are generated by poorly performing products.

Just to be fair I will state that I am one of those that had issues with the A2 in the United States, and rather than risk a large and expensive custom rig installed it on a much smaller rig that should have been simple for the most basic FC to control. It crashed 10 minutes into the first flight in a flip of death type event. After having already spent several months attempting to obtain resolution through the dealer, DJI support, and DJI direct I simply gave up on it and tossed in the corner to gather dust. Time is money and too much of both were wasted with that unit. I am not sponsored, supported, or affiliated with any MR or hobby product, company, or vendor, the above is purely personal experience.

Have you talked to Tahoe Ed? This stuff is too expensive to scratch it off.

 

[Cbergen]

I'm now on a third A2 in 3 weeks on 3 different builds for three different customers, all working as advertised. All 3 units were purchased at different times over the last few months (had a 2 month hiatus while we moved our shop to a new facility).

2 were on 900mm Octocopters, the latest on a folding 900mm Hexacopter. All aircraft I build are flown numerous times, testing all functions (including fail safe RTH), and flown to minimum pack voltages to verify flight times.

Having been in this Industry for many years, I can say that trying to diagnose issues, especially electrical ones, can be very difficult. It's easy to blame the FC when it's just as possible that other components my be causing the issue.

I have had had my share of crashes, every last one I was able to narrow down what caused it to something NOT the flight controller, whether WKM, Naza, or A2. I have seen motor issues, esc's flake out, even power systems stop sending power to the esc 's, and vibrations making life difficult for the FC. Point is, not one issue have I been able to blame on a DJI flight controller, as much as I may have wanted to..

Maybe I've been lucky, there do seem to be a number of reports of bad FC's. But I suspect that in the majority of cases, if we knew the whole story, we will probably find other causes.