A2 Dilemma

[xahhax]

Now this board has 4 active recents threads with A2 related crashed. It is deeply troubling me.
I just ordered one to mount on a Gryphon X8 configuration.
I am so scared of a A2 crash that I am even building a hybrid F450 in X8 configuration to test the A2.
But quite frankly this is enough, I will chicken out and get a WKM.
A2 will go on ebay. Unopened box.

If at least there was some announcement with 'faulty production batch' or 'sorry stop using it until we program a proper firmware' or something to that effect.
But all I see is that people who have those crashes get challenged with questions to the tune of 'Did you make sure your turned you TX on before the A2?' ...

All I can say is what I see are experienced RC guys who had already other multi rotors and many flights under their belt and with a lot of money invested in airframes gimbals and cameras that end up in a pile of rubbish.

All electronic equipment will eventually fail - one day. But this is way above an acceptable risk level - all those issues are not isolated events. There is an issue with the A2. I can't prove it and I don't want to prove it with an expensive airframe meant to do a job.

 

[Droider]

I am almost certain thats the config Carapau had his first knee trembler with. You are making a wise choice.

Dave

 

[Bartman]

the issues seem to be centered around the GPS functions. there is still a certain percentage of the A2 systems population that have bad GPS pucks and I've suggested to Tahoe Ed that DJI should put a simple diagnostic test in the A2 Assistant so as to enable a user to know for sure that they do or don't have a bad GPS puck. If they know what it was that made the batch of GPS pucks bad, and it appears that there were a lot of bad ones released, then they should be able to diagnose the problem with the A2 hooked up to the Assistant software.

if they could reduce the number of bad GPS pucks in the population then there would be a chance that the issues being reported might begin to focus around specific behaviors or faults. as it is, at least in my mind, any A2 problems that I read about almost certainly go in the possibly-bad-GPS-puck category leaving the real nature of any new problems unresolved. it's also possible that the wildly successful Phantom (I, II, V, V+) is keeping everyone living comfortably enough and so the A2 problems aren't as much of a problem for DJI as they are for us.

the newest firmware seemed to make progress but so long as we still have unresolved failures and improperly diagnosed problems floating around, there won't be any possibility of the A2 being more widely accepted. so long as those bad GPS pucks remain out there in use there are going to be large numbers of users that will continue to report unsolvable issues that will maintain the black eye that the A2 has had from the beginning.

IMHO.
Bart

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Bart I discussed this with a tech and the problem is that the GPS is just a receiver. All a diagnosis will do is tell you if you are receiving a signal or not. It cannot stress test the product. DJI has introduced many diagnostic programs in the A2 and their other controllers that will not allow motor arming and take off until the issue is resolved. Compass calibration and bad IMU data are two of those programs.

 

[Bartman]

Ed,

It seems to me, from what I've read and not through personal experience (but I read a lot), that the problems aren't being experienced at take-off but rather at some point in the flight.

Maybe if the helicopter goes, within a defined and very short period of time, from a lot of satellites to very few it should just autoland wherever it's at. losing satellites cancels the advanced functions that one might use to recover the heli so maybe an autoland would be best? there will be a few that will autoland in a bog but maybe there won't be as many total losses when pilots seem to lose all control???

understandably frustrating, it is.

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Ed,

It seems to me, from what I've read and not through personal experience (but I read a lot), that the problems aren't being experienced at take-off but rather at some point in the flight.

Maybe if the helicopter goes, within a defined and very short period of time, from a lot of satellites to very few it should just autoland wherever it's at. losing satellites cancels the advanced functions that one might use to recover the heli so maybe an autoland would be best? there will be a few that will autoland in a bog but maybe there won't be as many total losses when pilots seem to lose all control???

understandably frustrating, it is.

Bart that would be a solution. However, I think that many guys would object to that as well. I have had an experience where I lost satellite lock and I switched to ATTI and resumed my flight. After I changed lipos and repowered the satellites came back. In my opinion the bigger multi rotors fly better in ATTI vs GPS anyway. My suggestion would be to have an alarm other than just red leds flashing to alert the pilot of the situation and allow for appropriate actions. I never fly now without a video link with OSD so I have a visual of what is happening even if I cannot see the LED. An audible would also be helpful like what we get on the Lightbridge for low voltage.

 

[Bartman]

Bart that would be a solution. However, I think that many guys would object to that as well. I have had an experience where I lost satellite lock and I switched to ATTI and resumed my flight. After I changed lipos and repowered the satellites came back. In my opinion the bigger multi rotors fly better in ATTI vs GPS anyway. My suggestion would be to have an alarm other than just red leds flashing to alert the pilot of the situation and allow for appropriate actions. I never fly now without a video link with OSD so I have a visual of what is happening even if I cannot see the LED. An audible would also be helpful like what we get on the Lightbridge for low voltage.

there's a problem there Ed, how many guys would admit that they dorked it into the ground because they lost the aid of GPS/autoflight assistance? How many would fly at the distances that they do if they knew they'd have to coax it home in ATTI without autoleveling, carefree, or some other form of assistance.

Granted, the system should just work as advertised, then we wouldn't be discussing recovery techniques.

 

[Tahoe Ed]

there's a problem there Ed, how many guys would admit that they dorked it into the ground because they lost the aid of GPS/autoflight assistance? How many would fly at the distances that they do if they knew they'd have to coax it home in ATTI without autoleveling, carefree, or some other form of assistance.

Granted, the system should just work as advertised, then we wouldn't be discussing recovery techniques.

No system is 100% reliable even those that the government uses and pays millions of dollars for. Look at the drones that have crashed here in the US.

 

[SamaraMedia]

@TahoeEd I had a similar problem the other day with my P2 with GoPro and H3-2D gimbal. I had trouble get a compass calibration at one of my usual flying spots but on the third attempt got 7 satellites, waited for a minute to get a second confirmation watching my miniOSD to be sure I had sat's. I took off in ATTI and after about 1-1:30 into the flight lost the sat lock and the quad lost its orientation, gimbal horizon started to drift but I was able to gain control although the stick input was not always what I was putting into it. I returned to my takeoff point safely but have yet to feel confident to take it out again. When I returned home I connected to the NAZA assistant and did an IMU basic and advanced calibration, when I tried the advanced it stopped briefly and said the MC temperature was too hot and to shut down and try again later. This has happened more that once when doing the advanced cali and this as right after startup so I can't believe it is hot that fast unless something is wrong with the MC.

Didn't mean to hijack the A2 thread but thought I would add this to the list of issues for DJI.

John

 

[kloner]

Are the people having these problems using 8fg?

I had a gps lock issue once on WKm, can't remember what firmware it was. It went in within the second flight but the osd info showed two motors go full throttle and that was the side that went down

 

[Tahoe Ed]

@TahoeEd I had a similar problem the other day with my P2 with GoPro and H3-2D gimbal. I had trouble get a compass calibration at one of my usual flying spots but on the third attempt got 7 satellites, waited for a minute to get a second confirmation watching my miniOSD to be sure I had sat's. I took off in ATTI and after about 1-1:30 into the flight lost the sat lock and the quad lost its orientation, gimbal horizon started to drift but I was able to gain control although the stick input was not always what I was putting into it. I returned to my takeoff point safely but have yet to feel confident to take it out again. When I returned home I connected to the NAZA assistant and did an IMU basic and advanced calibration, when I tried the advanced it stopped briefly and said the MC temperature was too hot and to shut down and try again later. This has happened more that once when doing the advanced cali and this as right after startup so I can't believe it is hot that fast unless something is wrong with the MC.

Didn't mean to hijack the A2 thread but thought I would add this to the list of issues for DJI.

John

Did you check NOAA for solar activity? I now do that before I fly. You can by pass the high temp warning by pressing ok and waiting for it to calibrate. It just takes longer.

 

[SamaraMedia]

No to NOAA and that's what I did. Some have suggested I do the magnet around the compass and then recalibrate.

 

[Carapau]

Ed the failures are not that the A2 is loosing sat lock although that is sure an indications when things are going wrong. The problem is is that there are too many instances where the aircraft is simply not responding to the pilots commands. This is way bigger than GPS loss. This strikes me as a fundamental product fault.

DJI need to wake up. They are no longer working in the hobby trade but in professional aviation (excluding Phantoms 450s and 550s). They must start to communicate with their professional users so we can take appropriate action just as happens in aviation. What happened when that A380's engine blew apart mid flight? The fleet was temporarily grounded, Rolls Royce were brought into investigate and they then issued the fix- all aircraft airborne again. Anything else would have probably been lethal. Same thing must happen with professional drone use. If it becomes evident that there is a problem then a thorough, honest and open investigation must take place so that the right fixes can be put in place. There are too many crashes with the A2 showing the same symptoms despite the systems being different. This points to an A2 issue rather than anything else.

 

[kloner]

your going to see this kind of action soon with the faa and as these insurance companies start settling for there faults. to me this is the biggest problem with not having regulation right now

 

[rilot]

Are the A2 problems mainly stemming from either using the built in receiver or using Spektrum satellites? I'm running a FrSky Taranis setup via S-Bus and have yet to have any issues. Maybe it's luck.

 

[Carapau]

The failures I have seen have been a real mixture. Using the built in RX, using a native Futaba RX, using an S-BUS adaptor and I am pretty sure that at least one was on a Spektrum but cant remember.

 

[Droider]

Me on SBUS Spektrum AND Spektrum Satellite. Not only did I have the same on the SBUS system but had an added problem with temperature differences with the SBUS.. Strange I know but I still have the video and the emails from DJI over that particular issue where DJI admit a problem.

Dave

 

[kloner]

when i got mine from the first shipment of them, only the internal rx was supported, firmware 1.0. did that ever change? i never saw anything upgrading along the way that it did.

 

[Droider]

when i got mine from the first shipment of them, only the internal rx was supported, firmware 1.0. did that ever change? i never saw anything upgrading along the way that it did.

Mine worked with DSM2 AND DSMX on V1.0 as it was shipped that DJI claimed would not work with spektrum but they would release an update to fix it. then on 1.1 NOWT sprektrum worked, then 1.2 again I think sorted it out where only DSM2 worked. From then I have had no problems binding/linking to DSM2 satellites only with the SBUS/AR9020/AR8000/AR10000.. yup I have tried everything and every configuration.

The current A2 is on a Y6 with 2 DSM2 satellites. It flies and flies fookin incredibly, with GPS working great other than the grab which is far to harsh, Failsafe which is scary but I can live with that. What I cant live with is the sudden loss of control which could be on the very next flight, right now I am into approx 15 flights with out a hitch.. but I just know its going to happen so its a NO goer for commercial use.

How you finding the superX?

D

 

[Tahoe Ed]

Kloner, the A2 now supports dBus, DS16 (the internal Rx), DSM2 and PPM.