XAircraft XAircraft X650 Pro - Owners

[CrashMaster]

There appears to be a lot about XAircraft X650v X4 and X8 but little or nothing about the big brother the X650 Pro Carbon Fiber version.

View attachment 12598

I recently bought the basic machine and set up from Mark at www.xaircraft.co.uk then set about preparing it for Pro AP work and am very very pleased with the outcome so far - the stability and power far outstrip the DJI F550 I also own and the flight times are not too bad either.

X650 Pro (CF Version)
DJI WK-M (5 way-points) V5.22 Firmware
DJI 2.4Ghz Ground Station Link
DJI Ground Station V4.0.8
DJI V2 PCM
DJI iOSD Mark II
1147 CF Props + 1147 Standard APC SF Props (have 1238 and 1247 CF on order too)
4 x T-Motor x650 P7001 800kv (can't find the T-Motor equivalent www.rctigermotor.com/)​

Hitec Optima 9ch 2.4ghz RX
Hitec 9ch 2.4ghz TX
x2.5 5v UBEC - Power to Gopro
x5 7.2v UBEC - Power to Gimbal Control Board (Martinez V3)
Onboard Lipo Alarm
AeroXcraft GoPro Brushless Gimbal V_61 Firmware
Lipo 14.8v -​

Zippy 5000mah 4s 30C,
Turnigy 6000mah 4s 25-50C and
Zippy 8000mah 4s 30C - not tested yet.​

ImmersionRC 5.8Ghz AV Tx
7" Diversity 5.8ghz Airwaves Monitor (mounted on TX)
5" 5.8ghz Airwaves (Lawman) monitor with SD recording.
GoPro Hero 3 Black Edition with 60 degree lens.​

Ready to Fly with 6000mah and camera mounted the total weight is 2.3kg With the 8000mah the weight is 2.6kg - The Maximum safe weight (MTOM) for this machine is 3kg so it is working well within it's capabilities.

So far have had flight times from 9 mins in heavy winds (20mph+) with 5000mah to 15 mins with 6000mah (5mph-). I haven't tested the 8000mah yet because I haven't even changed the connectors to Deans yet. (I will post how to solder deans to 10 guage wire at a later stage)

The only issue I have had is that the rear left arm kept going out of true so the prop was never flat. I tracked that down to a screw in part number F3009 having pulled it's own thread off. The quality of the screws has been questioned before but should this happen again I will add longer screws with lock nuts not relying on the brass inset to hold.

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Hope owners can share their experiences and help each other with any problems they find with this machine.

I videoed this from this machine testing the gimbal and 60 degree GoPro lens for a thread on this forum:-

 

[PhilippeN]

Hello, I also have the X650 Pro 100% with the SuperX controller and OSD. I use all original parts and APC propellers. With 8000 mAh I have 16 minute flight until I reach the low battery alarm which give me 2 more minutes to land. With 10'000 mAh packs I am in the 18 minutes, it looks like the over weight of the 10'000 is killing the extra capacity by going a little out of the efficiency.
The stability is awesome it is one of the easiest machine to fly.
Philippe

 

[CrashMaster]

I think that they are so stable because the power to weight ratio is far higher, delivered by the larger motors, longer arms and lighter frame on the pro as opposed to the standard x650 value - Most adverts fail to show the differences between the two machines and many customers may go for the cheaper Value x4 or x8 thinking there is little or no difference between the machines.

The payload is 1kg more than the value and the MTOM is 800g higher too. Being completely CF the frame is quite a bit lighter and stronger to start with but look almost identical.
If the SuperX offered waypoint navigation I may have been tempted but prefer to go with the WK-M now that all the initial problems have been ironed out. As for the exploding props I haven't had that at all but prefer to use the CF props anyway.

 

[CrashMaster]

I have now put Deans onto my Zippy 8000mah 4s 30C Lipos and cycled them 4 times now and the flight times are very good. Even better than they claim on their website of 20 mins with wehight of 1800g (including 4S 5800mAh battery). I am running the 8000mah with a total weight of 2.6kg. That leaves 400g before it is over loaded so flies very stable and holds its position within 3-4 feet horizontally and 2-3 feet vertically. And that is even when hit by a gust of 25mph. This machine combined with the WKM is looking excellent.

Remember I am also powering from the lipo the iOSD, Aerxcraft GoPro Brushless Gimbal by 7.4v UBEC, GoPro 3 Black with WiFi on by 5v UBEC and a InnovationsRC 5.8ghz AV TX direct from power train. And even the DJI 2.4ghz Datalink although not connected to laptop during these flights was on. If I removed all the excess and went back to a bare frame as they did with their times I would probably exceed 25mins.

Flight times in 12mph wind gusts to 17mph:-
17min 38sec
18min 12sec

Flight times in 18mph wind with gusts reaching 25mph
19min 22sec
18min 31sec

Flight times in 5mph breeze and no gusts
18min 49sec
17min 56sec

Flight times in 0mph dead but hot - 30c
19min 52sec
19min 12sec

All the above flights were simply take off climb to 50 foot and stay there until the lipo alarm went of and then land.

On re-charging the Lipo which appears to get the edge is taking between 7000mah and 7250mah on re-charge and the other is taking between 6700mah and 7000mah It's internal resistance is slightly higher on cell 2 which may explain the differences.

The Lipo is a brick but the machine handles them very well although I had to use a longer Velcro strap because the standard one is not designed for such large lipos. I have also added Velcro to the lipos and the bottom of the battery tray because there is nothing stopping it shift it's weight during flight which could off-balance the machine should it happen.

 

[PhilippeN]

Hello CrashMaster,
Thanks for your feedback, I will try to do similar test with 8000 and 10000 mAh packs. Can you please let me know what is your voltage setting for the Lipo Alarm ? On THe SuperX I am at 14,4 volts and I usually have still 25% in the packs. In order to compare it would be great to have same settings.
I have not checked the weight of the X650Pro with 8'000 and 10'000 but I will when my testing will be completed.
Thanks and enjoy your week-end.
Philippe

Here is what I have inside !

View attachment 12718 View attachment 12719

 

[CrashMaster]

Philippe,

My settings on the WKM are below:-

1st Level		2nd Level
14	Voltage	13.4
0.5	Drop	0.5
13.5	Trigger	12.9

I have my Lipo alarm set to 3.4 per cell giving audible warning shortly after the first level is reached, when the voltage drops to 13.6v total.

The first level kicks in with Return to home so the craft begins to make it's way home. I can see this on the AV monitor too in the bottom right. This gives me a little time spare to change to Atti and stop the RTH. If I don't it will RTH then I can see the Land appear on the screen. The second level will just land wherever the craft is dropping quite rapidly until it is about 20 metres high then it drops more gracefully until it lands.

I normally take over by flicking to Atti mode as it gets over the take off position and lower it so I can read the Lipo Alarm. To work out Maximum flight time I have flown it in Atti until the second level kicks in and check the cells on landing and agian after 15 mins.

By using a combination of the three differing levels I have been able to eliminate the panic landing and damage to the lipos. The current draw is anything from 0.3v to 0.5v in hover dependent on the cells and the wind so set the drop in the WKM to 0.5v. Although I have noticed that the WKM is pessimistic with the voltage and re-calibrated it several times but I think it depends of the particular cells. 5000ma are bang on matching my Lipo Alarm to the on-screen value from the iOSD 6000mah are about 0.3v lower on the iOSD to the Lipo Alarm and the 8000mah are about 0.5v different again. I can only assume it is the difference in the draw between the different cells and the WKM may make some assumptions and projections in their algorithms, which may not be reflected in reality. A bigger battery will take a slower voltage drop to a smaller cell so take longer to get to the next level down but it may be that the WKM makes those assumptions in advance rather than real-time voltage readings. As opposed to the Lipo Alarm which is simply taking readings and making no assumptions or predictions at all.

This analogy and logical approach to cell voltage calculations and settings will also apply to any craft and not just the X650 Pro with WKM.

Note: yesterday the temperature was 32c with 10mph winds and no gusting and I got the following flight times from the two 8000mah
17mins 52sec
18mins 12sec

The 6000mah Turnigy cells both gave me 14mins 30-45 sec

The motors were all 41c when landed and didn't very on flights. The ESCs were all 28c except one which was always 0.5c higher.

The interesting thing was the 6000mah Turnigy cells were 46c on landing but the 8000mah Zippy were 51c and 53c. Possibly a reflection in the quality of the cells and internal resistance or the extra weight drawing more current near the end of the flight. but this wasn't reflected in motor heat.

 

[iflynavy]

Crash

Thanks again for the conversation...

I ended up getting the x650 Pro. Much like we discussed it's light years ahead of the Value version. The motors for one are T-Motor, as are the ESCs which are much better then all the things I have heard about the stock ones or the AKE ones that come on the Value Kit from Century.

None the less here are the first pictures...no electronics as of yet, still waiting on WKM before I mount receiver and FPV Gear.View attachment 12767View attachment 12768

 

[CrashMaster]

Once airborne you will notice the stability and spare power available with the pro compared to the Value.... The name gives it away. You get what you pay for.

Can't wait to see how the build goes. If there are any problems I should be able to help as you are building almost exactly what I have except you have the 50 way-points as opposed to my 5.

What gimbal were you going to use. I have an AeroXcraft for the GoPro but if you are going to use a larger camera that won't do. I understand the x130 from Xaircraft will take a Nexus 5.... I have a spare one in my hanger.... it came with the machine but swapped it out very quickly.

 

[iflynavy]

China Shipping Kills me

The one thing I will say that is driving me nuts is the shipping from China. I'm so spoiled here in the states that I can get most things next day. I had to order (totally didn't even think about it) a rail mount for my gimbal. Every where I could find the rail adapter was like 2 weeks out. Kills me.

Then on top of that, I had already ordered the Tarot 2D gimbal, after making me jump threw hoops for fraud prevention (on like my 10th order from the same place for the cheapest thing I ordered) they then tell me they just sold the last one 21 day backorder.

Needeless to say I got pissed and ordered the DJI Zenmuse... none the less spent a but load more, but hope it's worth it You ever use this Gimbal? Unforutnatley this thing will be here before my rail mount. Any suggestions on mounting until the rail mount gets here?

Also did you double side tape your electronics or did you velcro?

 

[CrashMaster]

The one thing I will say that is driving me nuts is the shipping from China. I'm so spoiled here in the states that I can get most things next day. I had to order (totally didn't even think about it) a rail mount for my gimbal. Every where I could find the rail adapter was like 2 weeks out. Kills me.

Then on top of that, I had already ordered the Tarot 2D gimbal, after making me jump threw hoops for fraud prevention (on like my 10th order from the same place for the cheapest thing I ordered) they then tell me they just sold the last one 21 day backorder.

Needeless to say I got pissed and ordered the DJI Zenmuse... none the less spent a but load more, but hope it's worth it You ever use this Gimbal? Unforutnatley this thing will be here before my rail mount. Any suggestions on mounting until the rail mount gets here?

Also did you double side tape your electronics or did you velcro?

I have never used a Zenmuse I am afraid. However, I believe it to be an excellent bit of kit and will plug directly into your setup with all the cables provided with the downlink, iOSD, PMC etc.... However, being 3 axis you will need to have a separate TX and a second person. Also the landing gear will have to be retractable or when you turn you will get the arms and skids in the shot. I have never seen retracts or rotating landing gear for the X650 but I did think about the http://www.havafilm.com/ gimbals which will mount on the load bars or even directly to the bottom plate of the x650, combined with their landing gear you only need a 2 axis gimbal the third axis provided by their clever swivel mount on top of the skids. Something I may consider in the future though.

As for mounting electronics I always use 4mm double sided sheet specifically designed to absorb vibration View it Here The advantage is that it stays where you put it and provides extra protection to your equipment. The disadvantage is that when you want to remove it the stuff is soooo soooo sticky you risk damaging the casing it was stuck to.

 

[iflynavy]

I have never used a Zenmuse I am afraid. However, I believe it to be an excellent bit of kit and will plug directly into your setup with all the cables provided with the downlink, iOSD, PMC etc.... However, being 3 axis you will need to have a separate TX and a second person. Also the landing gear will have to be retractable or when you turn you will get the arms and skids in the shot. I have never seen retracts or rotating landing gear for the X650 but I did think about the http://www.havafilm.com/ gimbals which will mount on the load bars or even directly to the bottom plate of the x650, combined with their landing gear you only need a 2 axis gimbal the third axis provided by their clever swivel mount on top of the skids. Something I may consider in the future though.

As for mounting electronics I always use 4mm double sided sheet specifically designed to absorb vibration View it Here The advantage is that it stays where you put it and provides extra protection to your equipment. The disadvantage is that when you want to remove it the stuff is soooo soooo sticky you risk damaging the casing it was stuck to.

Crash

The Zenmuse for the GoPro3 is actually a 2D Gimbal that not only works with other WKM aircraft but also the DJI Phantom So you can singularly control it

The one thing I haven't been able to tell is does the x650 Pro have lights on the bottom of the motors or anything so you know orientation? I have a light pack coming as well, but still. I'm also trying to figure out how to hook all the power up to. You get one extra connector coming off the included power connector but that is going to have to go to the WKM somehow.... how did you connect power from the included motor and power cable up to your electronics? Do you have a second main power line somehwere?

 

[CrashMaster]

Crash

The Zenmuse for the GoPro3 is actually a 2D Gimbal that not only works with other WKM aircraft but also the DJI Phantom So you can singularly control it

The one thing I haven't been able to tell is does the x650 Pro have lights on the bottom of the motors or anything so you know orientation? I have a light pack coming as well, but still. I'm also trying to figure out how to hook all the power up to. You get one extra connector coming off the included power connector but that is going to have to go to the WKM somehow.... how did you connect power from the included motor and power cable up to your electronics? Do you have a second main power line somehwere?

The new Zemnuse does appear to be a nice bit of kit and will be able to mount to the bottom plate of the load mounts provided by XAircraft with little modification. Another thing I hav noticed is that there is little or no vibration on the x650 either so no 'Jello'.
The WKM comes with xT60 connectors to take power off to the WKM, iOSD, etc... although I changed to last one to a Deans because I use them on all my Lipos. They piggyback each other and connect through to the next one. I have 3 piggyback. When it arrives lay it all on the table and follow the instructions and you will find it all connects together quite nicely. The only problem is you do end up with a large lump of connectors at the back. I was looking at a way to rationalize some of this but have not got round to doing it as it all works well. It also allows me to boot the WKM up without power to the motors for firmware changes etc.

 

[iflynavy]

Crap.... Then I need to find or go buy an XT60 splitter so that I can split it from my batteries. Seems like a waste to fly a second battery just to power the WKM. Plus wouldn't that give a false positive in the battery indicator on the GroundStation?

I'll have to think of how to do that, I don't believe I have a "Y" cable for xt60 as it stands now. I know I have them for deans, but not XT60. I wonder if the local Hobby shop would have one, they seem to be sparse on RC Multirotor gear here in the states.

 

[CrashMaster]

Crap.... Then I need to find or go buy an XT60 splitter so that I can split it from my batteries. Seems like a waste to fly a second battery just to power the WKM. Plus wouldn't that give a false positive in the battery indicator on the GroundStation?

I'll have to think of how to do that, I don't believe I have a "Y" cable for xt60 as it stands now. I know I have them for deans, but not XT60. I wonder if the local Hobby shop would have one, they seem to be sparse on RC Multirotor gear here in the states.

I would hold fire until the WKM arrives before you start trying to pre-empt the connectors you will need. My motor harness came with an xT60 already on. It may be that all you may need to change is the Deans on the harness to an XT60 or just sit and have a think when it all arrives. I may re-visit mine because it does leave a very large and bulky set of cables at the rear of the machine.

 

[CrashMaster]

View attachment 12854 View attachment 12855

 

[iflynavy]

The Zenmuse was a breeze actually. Going all DJI products made it much easier, everything interconnects quite nicely. The only issue I had to deal with was with power. Obviously my motors had a single XT60 Connector for connection, the zenmuse needed a power connector and the iOSD Came with an XT60. I ended up building a Y cable to connect DJI Products and Motor to Battery.

Flights are great at this point, loving the OSD.

Now I just have to wait for Heli-World\Century to get my darn Waypoint Activation Code so I can test out the datalink. Out of this whole project that has been the most frustrating thing, waiting for that to get here from the 2-7 day window to 2+ weeks. Then it arrives on a Thursday and you can't use Waypoints until you send in a Hardware ID. I was like seriously, I bought it with the way points why wasn't the key included. Even if they want you to call for it which I half get, I still have to wait "2 days" to get a new key. Thursday 145pm CDT time I e-mailed it. It's now 48 business hours later and nothing. UGH!

 

[CrashMaster]

The Zenmuse was a breeze actually. Going all DJI products made it much easier, everything interconnects quite nicely. The only issue I had to deal with was with power. Obviously my motors had a single XT60 Connector for connection, the zenmuse needed a power connector and the iOSD Came with an XT60. I ended up building a Y cable to connect DJI Products and Motor to Battery.

Flights are great at this point, loving the OSD.

Now I just have to wait for Heli-World\Century to get my darn Waypoint Activation Code so I can test out the datalink. Out of this whole project that has been the most frustrating thing, waiting for that to get here from the 2-7 day window to 2+ weeks. Then it arrives on a Thursday and you can't use Waypoints until you send in a Hardware ID. I was like seriously, I bought it with the way points why wasn't the key included. Even if they want you to call for it which I half get, I still have to wait "2 days" to get a new key. Thursday 145pm CDT time I e-mailed it. It's now 48 business hours later and nothing. UGH!

The connectors are made a lot simpler if you use a DJI bird because of the power distribution PCBs being part of the frame. However, it can still be done with a little thought and connectors.
I have never used a Zenmuse but reading all the reviews they are rock solid. The big advantage with the GoPro version is the video is taken directly from the composite plug and not the USB. They also make it easier to connect their own gear to their own gear so the connections are plug and play. The iOSD is clear, crisp and very good because it is DJI to DJI no messing with third party set-ups and hacks.

Glad to hear it is all going well except the Way-point codes: mine took 2 weeks to sort out. I got the 1 way-point within 4 days of purchase but the extra 4 took for ever. Although I have my doubts as to it's usefullness without a 3 axis gimbal or doing precise IR work. The one think I do like is that you can tell it to go to the same point in the sky as many times as you like so get the same photo each time over a period of time.

 

[N2NET]

Gentlemen;
Wish I had done more research and found your raves before i purchased a x650 value...Ah hindsight.
I have the DJI WK-M mated with a FS TH9X and can't seem to control the motors, they run continuously even though the software shows the throttle is modulating and A, E and R are responding as well. The firmware is up to date.
Any ideas where I can get advice in troubleshooting?

Thank You

 

[vadmcse]

If you are using the WK-M with the Motors and ESC's that came with the X650 value, then you should change the ESC's parameters in the WK-M to something like UltraPWM ESC, XA-ESC or 500Hz ESC, i don't own a WK-M, so i don't know if you can do that, but for my YS-X4 i changed the above parameter and it worked.

Hope this help.

Gentlemen;
Wish I had done more research and found your raves before i purchased a x650 value...Ah hindsight.
I have the DJI WK-M mated with a FS TH9X and can't seem to control the motors, they run continuously even though the software shows the throttle is modulating and A, E and R are responding as well. The firmware is up to date.
Any ideas where I can get advice in troubleshooting?

Thank You

 

[iflynavy]

If you are using the WK-M with the Motors and ESC's that came with the X650 value, then you should change the ESC's parameters in the WK-M to something like UltraPWM ESC, XA-ESC or 500Hz ESC, i don't own a WK-M, so i don't know if you can do that, but for my YS-X4 i changed the above parameter and it worked.

Hope this help.

vadmcse,

ANy chance you can post a picture of that Setting in the Wookong? I was going to make mention of what firmware was on the ESC's and calibrating them but it sounds like he is potentially fine since the assistant sees the movement. I had a similar issue but it was where the motors wouldn't move. I had to reverse my elevator channel.