Wookong M GPS Mode - Fair Warning

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
Weird things can happen to any piece of hardware that is totally software driven at any time for any number of reasons, not the least of which is bugs in the code and little used subroutines stepping on the same memory locations used by critical pieces of code when they activate at the same time. It's nearly impossible to write code that has no potential problems and to also test every possible scenario that may be encountered in real world use. The bottom line is you can only trust things so far and have to be ready to override the automatic parts of the program (if possible!) in a split second to avoid a total disaster. That said, the folks that fly around in GPS mode are just asking for trouble IMO, it isn't meant to be a flight mode, it's there mainly to enable holding a set position and if capable, to allow autonomous return to home on loss of control signal from the TX, it was never intended to be engaged while flying around as you would in manual or atti mode.

The problem I see these days is way too many people can't actually fly without it or rely on it as a crutch. Even worse are the "carefree" modes that allow the craft to be in any orientation and react as though it is always tail-in, with those capabilities there is no incentive for new pilots to learn how to actually fly when the flight controller will do it for them. The more features you pile on top of one another the more potential there is for something to glitch and put the system into an unrecoverable error mode and this instance may well be one of those times.

I've owned a few WKM and still have one. I've lost count of how many Naza I've owned in total and currently have 4 or 5 of them installed on frames though all of the later ones are the "Lite" version mainly because of what I said above, the more software you cram into a processor the more likely it is that eventually you'll run into just the right combination of conditions to cause it to go off into some unresponsive mode. Maybe I've been lucky in that I've never had a flyaway with any of my DJI systems although I've been flying them since the first batch made it to the USA, or maybe it's just the fact that I avoid the ones with the greatest amount of bells and whistles and rely on basic flight functions and my own fingers to keep it in the air and controllable, seems to work well that way.

Ken
 

222GR

Member
Honestly the last thing on my mind was to look for white flashes. I didn't see any but that doesn't mean they weren't there.
I had the anti-vibration mounts so my IMU was mounted on the plate externally. I went to great lengths to painstakingly minimize vibration as much as I could with things.
 

222GR

Member
That said, the folks that fly around in GPS mode are just asking for trouble IMO, it isn't meant to be a flight mode, it's there mainly to enable holding a set position and if capable, to allow autonomous return to home on loss of control signal from the TX, it was never intended to be engaged while flying around as you would in manual or atti mode.

Ken

exactly the point of sharing my sad tale. Thanks Ken.

Too much dependency, not enough experience, and a flooded market of cool new multirotors to turn everyone into a "professional aerial photographer" but that's a whole other thread.
 
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Topflight

Member
I have been flying my S800 EVO with, WKM, Zenmuse15 and retractable landing gear for approx 50 flights, with software 5.24. I was going to upgrade to latest version, but when I purchased the unit, the dealer told me to stay at 5.24, because thats how it was put together and it was test flown with this software. Unit has been flying well without issues. Last week I had completed two flights without any problems. On the third flight, I took off and was in a hover about 75' high and not too far out in front of me. I was in GPS mode and I started to notice my controls seemed slow to respond. I started to bring it down because I wasn't sure what was going on with the S800. All of a sudden, it tipped to the right at about 45 degrees and flew diagonally as fast as I have ever seen it go and crashed about 150 to 200 feet away. I had no time to react. I flipped it to RTH, but nothing happened. Didn't have time to try anything else like manual or ATTI, it happened so fast. Wasn't flying around any power or transmitters. Had a lot of damage, but could of been worse, as I crashed onto a sandy beach.

My question is, what do I do after I get it repaired? I'll probably upgrade to latest software, but whats to say this won't happen again. It's going to cost me some money, but my bigger concern is what would of happen if I hit someone. At the speed it was traveling, it would have done some serious damage, if not worse, if it had hit someone. I don't fly around people, but even as remote an area I was flying in, I crashed within a 150' of a couple that were walking on the beach (didn't know they were there, as they were below my line of sight).

I haven't a clue what happened. I know there are all kind of possibilities for the crash. Do you think that after so many flights, it might be a good idea to reboot the software and re-callibrate the unit just in case? Going to send note to DJI to see if they will respond.
 

sk8brd

Member
sorry to hear about this topflight. if you can describe your craft setup maybe we could help..details like the imu location, last calibration made, which version of evo arms you have, were you using the anti-vibration upgrade, auw, batt size, were you using fpv, iosdmk2..etc.

i like to hook up the assistant once a month, i check compass mod values and calibrate the imu...my wkm is on the way but this has worked for me on my nazas...we all know things can change real quick though.. i also check over the whole craft like the soders and screws every 10 or so flights. i like to feel the motors, battery and batt plugs to see if there hot after each flight..that could be an early sign of issues to come. do you happen to have any log files from the flight there are some members on here that could read them and i'm sure get back to you.

rtryder has good info a few post up about gps mode.
 
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Topflight

Member
sorry to hear about this topflight. if you can describe your craft setup maybe we could help..details like the imu location, last calibration made, which version of evo arms you have, were you using the anti-vibration upgrade, auw, batt size, were you using fpv, iosdmk2..etc.

i like to hook up the assistant once a month, i check compass mod values and calibrate the imu...my wkm is on the way but this has worked for me on my nazas...we all know things can change real quick though.. i also check over the whole craft like the soders and screws every 10 or so flights. i like to feel the motors, battery and batt plugs to see if there hot after each flight..that could be an early sign of issues to come. do you happen to have any log files from the flight there are some members on here that could read them and i'm sure get back to you.

rtryder has good info a few post up about gps mode.

sk8brd,
Some answers to your questions. Purchased S800EVO last September. EVO arms are V3, it does have the anti-vibration kit, no IOSD (was just getting ready to buy one) was flying FPV with DJI's 5.8 transmitter, 2 5000mah batteries, IMU V2 location (see photo), hasn't been calibrated since it was set up by the dealer. 2 Futaba T8FG Super radios, one to fly the S800 and the other for camera control, had no flashing red lights at take off.
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mephisto

Member
Is the DJI Software open?

For expensive Rigs running with DJI Software I think it's crucial, that the Sources of the Flightcontroll and Navigation are audited by a wide spectrum of people.

There is no other option to lift the Code quality.
 

hugh4g

Member
This thread answers a question that I've had for a while... Every now and then, my rudder control reverses... really have to concentrate when it does that...

Hugh
 

SMP

Member
Have a bunch of Nazas and Wkms. We run the Wookongs on 5.16 ONLY and thus far have not had any issues. The Nazas have all had some level of "strange" at some point. This has led us to always lift off and check control surfaces and if GPS lock really is and doesn't drift. If so we set down, repower, recalibrate and Wait, wait wait for rth to write home. Generally speaking our problems are a quick battery change, moving the bird while its calibrating during power up and/or lifting off before it writes home. All of these are impatient pilot problems. IN THE AIR... the minute we get mushy sticks, funky business, fly away type behaviour we immediately go to MANUAL. Manual is fairly easy in FPV and fairly hard in LOS. We've tried progressive procedures (Atti, IOC, Failsafe etc) and typically run out of time. Now we go straight to manual which so far has worked everytime.

One thing I didn't catch from the OP. Did you deactivate Failsafe by returning the failsafe switch to normal AND toggling to Manual and back? Have seen crazy erratic from loose GPS pucks as well. Its now part of our preflight.
 
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222GR

Member
Topflight, I feel just as awful for your experience. When mine happened my stomach was in knots for hours with the "what-ifs".
What do you do now? Maybe the same thing I do now. My workflow is 100 percent changed now as I plan to use GPS at a bare bare minimum to never going forward. and SMP's idea is the best ultimately.
Hard to pull off FPV unless your Zenmuse camera is in horizon lock mode but a secondary small cam for FPV "failsafe" is a good idea as far as I'm concerned because he's right, LOS Manual to control the chaos would be a beast.
I personally can't point the finger at the firmware upgrades but who knows. I had 80-90 perfectly flawless flights on 5.24 so it's hard to say, Topflight if even that was your issue. Bummer you didn't have the iOSD to review your compass data. I'm sure it was wacky like mine got.

I did a Failsafe test with my 550 last night and sure enough.... if youre in gps mode and hit failsafe, the only way to get control back is to flip to ATTI or Manual.
If youre in flying in ATTI and hit failsafe and then disengage you get control back automatically since your'e TX is still in ATTI.
Keep in mind that HOME LOCK won't bail you out of trouble either if you have GPS issues.

Remember guys, failsafe is only useful for TX loss, not an all out bail out when things get nuts. Another serious lesson learned. My iOSD was telling me I still had 8 satellites when it was going crazy. don't trust it exclusively as a consistent flight mode, just asking for trouble.

You know what I really want to know: How many DJI users have experienced total loss of control or flyaways while flying in ATTI?
 

222GR

Member
Generally speaking our problems are a quick battery change, moving the bird while its calibrating during power up and/or lifting off before it writes home.

SMP, man can i relate to that. I was advance calibrating my NAZA once in a car while we were driving even though I kept the bird "stationary"
Oh man was that a near disaster averted! I was lucky to get it back without bouncing off some buildings.
 

sk8brd

Member
yeah i would agree to wait till all sats lock before take off and having the home point is recorded. any time i take off early before sat lock from being impatient i get a ton of drift on my naza v1 and 2. i believe the imu's have to warm up as well-thats what i heard. some times i even reset the home point by flicking ioc switch rapidly. even though i fly atii i still think its a good idea to wait 20- 30-seconds with a solid satt lock before taking off..cant hurt
 

HeinzABF

Member
Hi,
we had today also some problems with the S800 and WKM V2.
We were filming all the day long and after about 9 flights the S800 were not more controllable. Neither in GPS or Atti. The S800 also started yawing (in GPS and Atti.
The only chance was to make a emergency landing in a wheat field. So nothing get broken.
Than we started a seond time. The result was the same.

Do we have any chance to read the data from IOSD after the battery is disconnected?
How many flights are saved in the IOSD?

Regards
Heinz
 

Dewster

Member
I've flown in GPS mode without any issues. I'm using one of the earlier versions of DJI WKM. I've seen videos of the flip of death etc, and was thankful that my compass was not affected. I read about DJI incorporating a new feature to help prevent fly aways by activating the Return to Home feature if no control input is provided within a few seconds. Of course Home Point must be recorded prior to departure...and GPS reception must be good during it's return to home activation. I think Mikrokopter had a voice feature that would reassure you of the GPS status during flight. When I have my craft at distance it's hard to tell if the GPS reception is good enough for a return to home operation.
 

Benjamin Kenobi

Easy? You call that easy?
Hi Heinz,

What do you mean by 'not more controllable' and yawing? It sounds like you could of had a motor/ESC on it's way out. You should have iOSD data for the whole time up until you disconnect the battery. best way to check is have a look.

Hi,
we had today also some problems with the S800 and WKM V2.
We were filming all the day long and after about 9 flights the S800 were not more controllable. Neither in GPS or Atti. The S800 also started yawing (in GPS and Atti.
The only chance was to make a emergency landing in a wheat field. So nothing get broken.
Than we started a seond time. The result was the same.

Do we have any chance to read the data from IOSD after the battery is disconnected?
How many flights are saved in the IOSD?

Regards
Heinz
 

Topflight

Member
I've flown in GPS mode without any issues. I'm using one of the earlier versions of DJI WKM. I've seen videos of the flip of death etc, and was thankful that my compass was not affected. I read about DJI incorporating a new feature to help prevent fly aways by activating the Return to Home feature if no control input is provided within a few seconds. Of course Home Point must be recorded prior to departure...and GPS reception must be good during it's return to home activation. I think Mikrokopter had a voice feature that would reassure you of the GPS status during flight. When I have my craft at distance it's hard to tell if the GPS reception is good enough for a return to home operation.

Dewster,
I did try my RTH and it didn't do anything. I had my home port recorded and max satellites. Others have said the same thing when trying to use RTH on a fly-away.
 

Av8Chuck

Member
I deactivated Failsafe once it was determined un-useful. The Altitude increases came after and happened like 3 times before it departed.
I agree with your comment on Failsafe being GPS dependant. I'm sure it's necessary but 3 would be more reasonable. I would be ok with CLOSE TO HOME mode :)

This kind of thing sucks no matter why it happens. I was an early adopter of DJI FC's and had two incidents that "inspired" me to change controllers. When intelligent shutoff was introduced my Hex "shutoff" at about 25 feet. When I reported it to DJI and posted the video on this RCGroups I was told it couldn't happen. I guess seeing and hearing wasn't believing. Then I was at about a four foot hover when I switched from manual, I always take off in manual, to attitude mode, the Hex immediately went to full throttle and hung a left. Unfortunately my face got in the way and I needed something like 92 stitches. Had nothing to do with GPS.

Also, I bring this up because although GPS may be required for RTH and Failsafe with DJI controllers it is not with the SuperX. If you lose GPS lock for any reason and have a Tx failure or switch to RTH it will return to where it took off. Works great. So that's a limit of DJI, you do not need GPS in order for failsafe to work correctly.

I could go into a whole host of other reasons the SuperX is much safer but I'm not hear to convince anyone to switch just to let you know there are some really good alternatives.
 
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222GR

Member
I could go into a whole host of other reasons the SuperX is much safer but I'm not hear to convince anyone to switch just to let you know there are some really good alternatives.

I will absolutely look into that. Safer and more reliable is what I want to know about. I'd love to know how it performs a return to home without GPS knowledge of its origin to track back.

Thanks for the rest of your story. I've been wondering the potential for issues with DJI FC's even in manual and Atti mode in regards to out of control flyaways.

Sure like to know if others have flyaway and out of control complaints about other FCs as as frequently as DJI. Bugs will always exist regardless of the manufacturer.
 
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SMP

Member
The short answer is that DJI doesn't seem to fly away in Manual. For whatever reason, GPS dropout, Code, Bug, buffer overrun whatever etc. Manual seems to be the most reliable way to save it when things go horribly wrong. Suspect that's probably true for most FCs. Automation is wonderful but complications go up exponentially when we ask it to do everything all at once.
 

Av8Chuck

Member
The short answer is that DJI doesn't seem to fly away in Manual. For whatever reason, GPS dropout, Code, Bug, buffer overrun whatever etc. Manual seems to be the most reliable way to save it when things go horribly wrong. Suspect that's probably true for most FCs. Automation is wonderful but complications go up exponentially when we ask it to do everything all at once.

By what people are saying here I'd agree that a DLI probably won't fly away in manual, so don't buy a DJI because if that's the only thing you can trust then its not worth it. The SuperX flies better in GPS than the NAZA flies in manual. I don't know exactly how they accomplish it but what I suspect is that when you enter GPS mode it simply logs its position in 3D space and uses the compass to fly relative to that point and it resets the point when it hovers in position hold. That's, in part, how I believe they are able to RTH when they lose GPS, they simply fly the current flight log in reverse.

I will absolutely look into that. Safer and more reliable is what I want to know about. I'd love to know how it performs a return to home without GPS knowledge of its origin to track back.

Thanks for the rest of your story. I've been wondering the potential for issues with DJI FC's even in manual and Atti mode in regards to out of control flyaways.

Sure like to know if others have flyaway and out of control complaints about other FCs as as frequently as DJI. Bugs will always exist regardless of the manufacturer.

The SuperX logs all the information about your flight, motor RPM, vibration, altitude, flight characteristics and navigational. If it loses GPS lock it already has a record of all the parameters it needs to recalculate it RTH and its surprisingly accurate without GPS.

Here's a video showing a test of that functionality.

 
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