Hoverfly What Makes Good Aerial Video
- Thread starter Aerovideo
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Bowley
Member
Cheers for that link Eric, Thats a great video, great quality, I wonder what camera it was, 5D at a guess but that would be a heavy load for that size hex.
Breezemont
Member
This looks very interesting.
Too late for the tour,unfortunately.
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/snl-alex-buono-art-visual-storytelling-tour/
Too late for the tour,unfortunately.
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/snl-alex-buono-art-visual-storytelling-tour/
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Breezemont
Member
Attachments
Great ideas on here guys! I've learned quite a bit already.
I don't have much to add - but one of the grips I have when watching vids has to do with direction. For example, in the Stanley Lake vid (which is mesmerising by the way), there is a lot of yaw motion which gets distracting. Many times before you pan to the right, for example, there is a slight yaw to the left. This is distracting and a bit confusing. It makes me wonder what I'm supposed to be looking at.
I'm a proponent of keeping motion steady for as long as possible. If you're moving north and ascending while tracking a POI, then keep all movement consistent for as long as possible - even if it means losing the POI momentarily. The change in direction will be more distracting than losing your POI for a brief moment.
I think this entire concept contributes to the idea of making your subject the story, not your multirotor. Whenever you change directions, or show a landing, or show a MR shadow you are making your MR the hero and not the subject.
Also a big believer in using foreground materials to help lend scope to your background subject. Love your use of that tall fern/tree in the Stanley Lake vid to provide foreground with the lake in the background near the beginning.
Don't really like transitions of any kind except in rare circumstances.
Music is HUGE.
That's about all I have.
Oh, and this is coming from somebody with zero production background except what I've learned in the last year from flying - so flame away!
Best,
Tom
I don't have much to add - but one of the grips I have when watching vids has to do with direction. For example, in the Stanley Lake vid (which is mesmerising by the way), there is a lot of yaw motion which gets distracting. Many times before you pan to the right, for example, there is a slight yaw to the left. This is distracting and a bit confusing. It makes me wonder what I'm supposed to be looking at.
I'm a proponent of keeping motion steady for as long as possible. If you're moving north and ascending while tracking a POI, then keep all movement consistent for as long as possible - even if it means losing the POI momentarily. The change in direction will be more distracting than losing your POI for a brief moment.
I think this entire concept contributes to the idea of making your subject the story, not your multirotor. Whenever you change directions, or show a landing, or show a MR shadow you are making your MR the hero and not the subject.
Also a big believer in using foreground materials to help lend scope to your background subject. Love your use of that tall fern/tree in the Stanley Lake vid to provide foreground with the lake in the background near the beginning.
Don't really like transitions of any kind except in rare circumstances.
Music is HUGE.
That's about all I have.
Oh, and this is coming from somebody with zero production background except what I've learned in the last year from flying - so flame away!
Best,
Tom
Aerovideo
Member
Holy cow that was a cool video, lots of interesting shots and angles. A lot of thought put into light as well, very nice. Some of those shots look like they might have been done with a 2 man setup, I find those to be among the most interesting aerial shots. Thanks for sharing.
Although I'm a bit puzzled by your last comment under the video?
Leave the thread for a week or so and lots of new stuff, awesome!
On a side note, I've got a 3 axis brushless gimbal coming that will work with my new Sony Nex 5T camera. I want to use it with the gimbal in hand held situations as well as aerial 2 man setup.
Hopefully I have the nerves to fly with this much $$$ in the air
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Aerovideo
Member
Tom, I think those are some great observations. While I still maintain the Hoverfly does best with stability there were some yaw quirks that came in occasionally. Probably some pilot indecision as well hehe
I see videos of 2 axis gimbals from a Naza and there's a constant left right motion going on, yuck. My post above I mention getting a 3 axis video which will also stabilize the yaw axis as I too find that annoying. We'll see how that goes and how far I get without destroying all my allowance money my wife gives me!
Aerovideo
Member
That was really cool, can't believe they got shots of the moon like that.
Man I would have love to attended one of those workshops!
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Tom, I think those are some great observations. While I still maintain the Hoverfly does best with stability there were some yaw quirks that came in occasionally. Probably some pilot indecision as well hehe
I see videos of 2 axis gimbals from a Naza and there's a constant left right motion going on, yuck. My post above I mention getting a 3 axis video which will also stabilize the yaw axis as I too find that annoying. We'll see how that goes and how far I get without destroying all my allowance money my wife gives me!
I think the best thing to do as a 1-man show is a 3-axis setup with follow mode enabled on yaw. And then leave a pretty big deadband so that it doesn't follow your yaw unless you mean it.
At the end of the day though, I'm just being picky - your lake video is truly spectacular - you have a wonderful eye. Keep up the great work!
Best,
Tom
onlocation
Member
I couldn't cut together a good video to save myself, but I do have a grasp on how to obtain the aerial footage. I don't have much to add to this thread other than to say if you are trying to be an aerial operator, then don't worry too much about editing, spend your efforts on improving your footage and always knowing how to get interesting shots that engage the viewer. You are expected to be a master of your trade, not the editor or the creative director, but an absolute expert on cameras and everything about lifting them and shooting with them from the air.
Spend your time learning how to use your equipment to it's absolute fullest extent, and be prepared to use it in any shot you are asked to get. Always have an idea how to get the best shot with given lighting, subject placement, dynamic movement between camera and subject, etc. Most of the best shots we can get don't look like aerials at all, the best shots don't even leave the viewer asking "how did they get that", instead the best shots leave the viewer absolutely unaware of the camera movement and completely engaged in the subject.
The single most important thing is to learn how to use light. This is the most important thing in ground based photography and cinematography, and it only becomes more important when you put the camera in the air. Know how to light the subject, know how to use light to benefit your camera, know how to use light to obtain a certain look. Also learn tricks like how to hide the helicopter shadow and how to avoid lens flare when shooting towards the sun.
I read somewhere something like amatures worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light. If you are really good with light you can make go-pro footage look like a million bucks. If you don't know what you are doing then even footage from the most expensive cameras will look like low quality "video".
In the real world you only need the most basic editing skills to handle your own footage and quickly cut together very basic clips, in order to show your footage on a very quick turn around and verify shots in the field. For example this was put together the evening after the shoot and showed that night to verify the shots. It's not a polished edit, it's only intended to show the footage quickly to a few selected people.
On the other hand, when it comes to demo reels, unless you already have a good editing background then this is the time to spend money and get a solid creative editor to do the job. A common mistake I see is very solid aerial footage with a slightly armature looking edit, or even just a few small mistakes early on that ruin the feel of the demo reel. Your demo reel is something that should appeal to a wide range of people, that way it gets passed around, gets more hits, gets better search results, and eventually ends up being viewed by people who matter.
Spend your time learning how to use your equipment to it's absolute fullest extent, and be prepared to use it in any shot you are asked to get. Always have an idea how to get the best shot with given lighting, subject placement, dynamic movement between camera and subject, etc. Most of the best shots we can get don't look like aerials at all, the best shots don't even leave the viewer asking "how did they get that", instead the best shots leave the viewer absolutely unaware of the camera movement and completely engaged in the subject.
The single most important thing is to learn how to use light. This is the most important thing in ground based photography and cinematography, and it only becomes more important when you put the camera in the air. Know how to light the subject, know how to use light to benefit your camera, know how to use light to obtain a certain look. Also learn tricks like how to hide the helicopter shadow and how to avoid lens flare when shooting towards the sun.
I read somewhere something like amatures worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light. If you are really good with light you can make go-pro footage look like a million bucks. If you don't know what you are doing then even footage from the most expensive cameras will look like low quality "video".
In the real world you only need the most basic editing skills to handle your own footage and quickly cut together very basic clips, in order to show your footage on a very quick turn around and verify shots in the field. For example this was put together the evening after the shoot and showed that night to verify the shots. It's not a polished edit, it's only intended to show the footage quickly to a few selected people.
On the other hand, when it comes to demo reels, unless you already have a good editing background then this is the time to spend money and get a solid creative editor to do the job. A common mistake I see is very solid aerial footage with a slightly armature looking edit, or even just a few small mistakes early on that ruin the feel of the demo reel. Your demo reel is something that should appeal to a wide range of people, that way it gets passed around, gets more hits, gets better search results, and eventually ends up being viewed by people who matter.
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Av8Chuck
Member
I'm going to argue a bit with some of your points, of coarse its tough to argue after watching your aerial footage, well done.
Often times the best shot for a scene is not the "best shot" but the one that works best in context of the overall program, so although being an editor may not help you get the "best" shot, it often helps you get the right shot. Also, it depends on what you hope to accomplish with your AP, are you hoping to work for others in a commercial way [which is illegal in the US] to shoot commercials, TV shows etc., do you work in a more documentary style where your aerial needs to be in context of a narrative or are you shooting aerial to provide a unique perspective. These aren't mutually exclusive however they can be different enough to effect what aspect and even what equipment you choose.
Seeing the light is one of the most important traits when you use a camera for anything, that's not unique to AP. A MR or RC helicopter for AP is a tool like a dolly, jib or steadicam that can provide the viewer with a different perspective where often times you don't want the viewer to be aware of how you got the shot, but there are times that although you don't want them to notice which of those tools were used to get a particular shot you do want to leave the audience wondering how you got the shot. James Bond movies are famous for this, even in your own aerial example, I think I know what you used to get the shot of the dogs(?) running along the stream but I have no idea how you got that shot.
Lastly, professionals worry about equipment, some obsess over it but for AP it should't be about the bells and whistles but about safety, how you prioritize money, light and equipment depends on what you hope to accomplish with AP. If your just starting out then most of your focus will probably be on flying, if your an accomplished pilot [like Paul] then your focus might shift to "seeing the light" or using the camera more effectively, combined with good piloting skills you can charge more for your services. Only the pilot can know his/her balance of skill set and build their business or install base accordingly.
I think that's the point of this thread, we can all fly RC camera platforms but how can our skills as cinematographers, photographers, editors or even accountants [business people] be combined in a way to help the participants of this thread achieve what ever balance they're looking for.
Often times the best shot for a scene is not the "best shot" but the one that works best in context of the overall program, so although being an editor may not help you get the "best" shot, it often helps you get the right shot. Also, it depends on what you hope to accomplish with your AP, are you hoping to work for others in a commercial way [which is illegal in the US] to shoot commercials, TV shows etc., do you work in a more documentary style where your aerial needs to be in context of a narrative or are you shooting aerial to provide a unique perspective. These aren't mutually exclusive however they can be different enough to effect what aspect and even what equipment you choose.
Seeing the light is one of the most important traits when you use a camera for anything, that's not unique to AP. A MR or RC helicopter for AP is a tool like a dolly, jib or steadicam that can provide the viewer with a different perspective where often times you don't want the viewer to be aware of how you got the shot, but there are times that although you don't want them to notice which of those tools were used to get a particular shot you do want to leave the audience wondering how you got the shot. James Bond movies are famous for this, even in your own aerial example, I think I know what you used to get the shot of the dogs(?) running along the stream but I have no idea how you got that shot.
Lastly, professionals worry about equipment, some obsess over it but for AP it should't be about the bells and whistles but about safety, how you prioritize money, light and equipment depends on what you hope to accomplish with AP. If your just starting out then most of your focus will probably be on flying, if your an accomplished pilot [like Paul] then your focus might shift to "seeing the light" or using the camera more effectively, combined with good piloting skills you can charge more for your services. Only the pilot can know his/her balance of skill set and build their business or install base accordingly.
I think that's the point of this thread, we can all fly RC camera platforms but how can our skills as cinematographers, photographers, editors or even accountants [business people] be combined in a way to help the participants of this thread achieve what ever balance they're looking for.
This guy I believe is a film maker first and foremost and has over a number of years made use of multirotors to assist his creative abilities. I have been watching his videos for a few years now and they always have a touch of simplicity and beauty about them. I always find they tell a story which is something i have never been able to do yet.
This is his latest one.
https://vimeo.com/75681668
This is his latest one.
https://vimeo.com/75681668
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Earl E Adobtr
Paul
Excellent production throughout and a real money shot towards the end with the snorkelers and water shimmer but I'd have to ask where are the interspersed "boots on the ground" shots if this was made for the resort. Even though I don't do this professionally, I think a handheld 3 axis gimbal would be part of the toolbox for professionals at this juncture.
Av8Chuck
Member
I too have been watching that guy for a while and its interesting to see the improvement in AP over the past couple of years. When I first started there were some "pros" who posted some really nice footage while the rest of us posted footage of our back yards or local playground etc., now there are a lot more people posting some comparable footage to the pros of just a few years ago and those "pros" seem to be posting a lot less.
I think its an exciting time to be involved in AP and although a lot of the aerial posts have improved significantly, I don't believe as a community we're raising the level of quality much at the moment. Sure there's some new developments that have the potential to improve things, like the brushless gimbal and waypoint navigation, but threads like this are the ways to improve or change the role of AP in different kinds of productions. Can those of us who have experience with the "boots on the ground" help those that have focused on aerial but need help integrating their services with more traditional production demands and vise-versa?
As much as I enjoyed that video and wished I was there, the place was empty, which might have been what they were going for, that kind of solitude in such a beautiful place sure is inviting. My point is not to critique that video but how could any of us improve on the video? How can we find ways to integrate AP beyond the obvious, as an extension of a jib for example but where AP is not the only POV? I would have liked to see shots from the canoe's perspective with a young couple in each canoe, or up close and personal shots of people in pool or on the pier.
The earlier video with the skateboarder was a great example of using AP in such a simple concept to show an entirely different POV but that has such limited applicability, I'm sure it will get a ton of downloads but I'm not sure traditional directors will know how to incorporate that kind of AP into their productions.
Sorry for cheerleading this issue, but for me it was never about the flying and all about camera perspective and its encouraging to see people on this thread that seem to share a desire to make the art of AP more relevant. I've certainly been inspired by AP flying in the front door, out the back and chasing kangaroos but with the resolution available we can now share these amazing vistas in ways never before possible [or at th least cost prohibi, there has to be a way to significantly raise the bar, there has to be more to this.
I think its an exciting time to be involved in AP and although a lot of the aerial posts have improved significantly, I don't believe as a community we're raising the level of quality much at the moment. Sure there's some new developments that have the potential to improve things, like the brushless gimbal and waypoint navigation, but threads like this are the ways to improve or change the role of AP in different kinds of productions. Can those of us who have experience with the "boots on the ground" help those that have focused on aerial but need help integrating their services with more traditional production demands and vise-versa?
As much as I enjoyed that video and wished I was there, the place was empty, which might have been what they were going for, that kind of solitude in such a beautiful place sure is inviting. My point is not to critique that video but how could any of us improve on the video? How can we find ways to integrate AP beyond the obvious, as an extension of a jib for example but where AP is not the only POV? I would have liked to see shots from the canoe's perspective with a young couple in each canoe, or up close and personal shots of people in pool or on the pier.
The earlier video with the skateboarder was a great example of using AP in such a simple concept to show an entirely different POV but that has such limited applicability, I'm sure it will get a ton of downloads but I'm not sure traditional directors will know how to incorporate that kind of AP into their productions.
Sorry for cheerleading this issue, but for me it was never about the flying and all about camera perspective and its encouraging to see people on this thread that seem to share a desire to make the art of AP more relevant. I've certainly been inspired by AP flying in the front door, out the back and chasing kangaroos but with the resolution available we can now share these amazing vistas in ways never before possible [or at th least cost prohibi, there has to be a way to significantly raise the bar, there has to be more to this.
He has done a number of videos from that trip and knowing what commercial work he has done in the past there will have been ground shots as well. I suspect that video was partly highlighting his aerial work.
I suspect that was the story, the serenity and getting away from it all. For me it stands as it is perfectly. The people are shot as being part of the postcard, just visible in the scenery. Getting close up shots of people might take away from the bigger picture. Every promotional video for resorts etc is full of close ups of people, this one has a different angle.
Av8Chuck
Member
I agree, like I said I'm a fan of this persons work. I'm just trying to stir discussion, not so much critique AP work but toss around ideas about how things might be accomplished differently, better or maybe even easier using a different technique for accomplishing the same look. There is certainly work out there that stands on its own and this is one of them.
I think as we improve as pilots we can start to focus more on creating a look or style, Sky-Hook definitely has a style that I've seen on a couple of videos but how could that look be improved upon? Not so much for Sky-Hook but how might Paul leverage those techniques to add to his list of shots and techniques if he chose to? Even as good as Sky-Hooks AP is, after five or six projects capturing the same shots at different locations they too might be looking to change things up. How would they do that?
I'm not speaking for Sky-Hook or Paul, just using them as examples. Where is Sky-Hook? I want to move there...
I think as we improve as pilots we can start to focus more on creating a look or style, Sky-Hook definitely has a style that I've seen on a couple of videos but how could that look be improved upon? Not so much for Sky-Hook but how might Paul leverage those techniques to add to his list of shots and techniques if he chose to? Even as good as Sky-Hooks AP is, after five or six projects capturing the same shots at different locations they too might be looking to change things up. How would they do that?
I'm not speaking for Sky-Hook or Paul, just using them as examples. Where is Sky-Hook? I want to move there...
I do like some of the gopro ads where they mix in time lapse with moving time lapse and slow motion and sped up footage. The hardest bit seems to be knowing how and when to edit and why.
Booma (Skyhook) posted this link on FB the other day. Its a 23 minute video and worth watching all the way through, it is about rock climbing but also about people. Starts off a bit spaghetti western and just keeps getting better. Booma made the comment "If you like rock climbing watch this - If you like editing watch this - if you like music watch this - if you like people watch this."
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Av8Chuck
Member
Wow, that is amazing. I've done some rock climbing, nothing like that but I have friends that do and until you meet someone who climbs its hard to understand the intense focus and enthusiasm they have in their sport.
This was so well done its hard to imagine how they did it. The music and small vignettes are so integral to the whole flow of it they must have known that was what and how they were going to shoot it before they ever turned on a camera. This is probably one of the best online videos I've ever seen and a great example and inspiration to people who want to take production to the next level. I think this was so well thought out and executed.
Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed that.
This was so well done its hard to imagine how they did it. The music and small vignettes are so integral to the whole flow of it they must have known that was what and how they were going to shoot it before they ever turned on a camera. This is probably one of the best online videos I've ever seen and a great example and inspiration to people who want to take production to the next level. I think this was so well thought out and executed.
Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed that.