XAircraft SuperX

[RTRyder]

One other thing you can try, set the end point travel on your low end of the throttle channel to around 125 (or -125 depending on the radio) and do the stick calibration thing all over again after resetting the SuperX to default settings. Drew posted the way to do that somewhere in this very thread as I recall. Also do a factory reset on the ESCs before you hook them up and make sure to do all the SuperX calibrations again after resetting it making sure the low throttle endpoint is at least at 100 or lower (higher number). What that should do is tell the SuperX it's low throttle signal needs to be lower than whatever it's at now and that SHOULD allow the ESCs to initialize.

If this were a SimonK ESC I could build you a couple different hex files with higher and lower throttle endpoint numbers to see which ones work. I ran into this exact same problem first time I hooked a set of SimonK ESCs to a NAZA which has a ridiculously low throttle output setting. Thought the Naza was bad but going back to standard ESCs worked, swap back to SimonK not working. Change the low throttle variable in the SimonK code, recompile and flash to ESC, bingo, they worked.

Ken

 

[Motopreserve]

UPDATE: when I got RT's last post I already had the harness wired to test a UBEC running direct to the red wires of the ESC. Glad it worked for you Tundra - but as has been my way this build...no luck.

Ken: I had done the end point move earlier. I doubt I did the procedure in the order you mentioned - so I can try that again. The futaba is set to 135 on the low point already. I also tried it with -125 on the taranis.

Also heard back from Drew. He has a call into the engineers at xaircraft and will hopefully help hone in on the issue. He mentioned that he is running OPTO with no problem. Figures


if that's the case, this may bring me back to the install of the upgrade. Perhaps the download they provided was not kosher? Hmmm. Who knows.

 

[RTRyder]

UPDATE: when I got RT's last post I already had the harness wired to test a UBEC running direct to the red wires of the ESC. Glad it worked for you Tundra - but as has been my way this build...no luck.

Ken: I had done the end point move earlier. I doubt I did the procedure in the order you mentioned - so I can try that again. The futaba is set to 135 on the low point already. I also tried it with -125 on the taranis.

Also heard back from Drew. He has a call into the engineers at xaircraft and will hopefully help hone in on the issue. He mentioned that he is running OPTO with no problem. Figures


if that's the case, this may bring me back to the install of the upgrade. Perhaps the download they provided was not kosher? Hmmm. Who knows.

If I were a gambler I'd put my money on it being a corrupted firmware update, especially since it worked prior. The X might not be putting out any signal on the motor pins which would cause the same problem as it not being low enough. Only way to check that is to put an Oscilloscope on the signal pin and see what's there...

Ken

 

[Motopreserve]

If I were a gambler I'd put my money on it being a corrupted firmware update, especially since it worked prior. The X might not be putting out any signal on the motor pins which would cause the same problem as it not being low enough. Only way to check that is to put an Oscilloscope on the signal pin and see what's there...

Ken

No Oscilloscope here But also, it worked on the quad when I retested that (just to make sure the superx was working at ALL). So signal is being passed - but for some reason there is an issue with these Opto ESCs. Or somehow - the upgrade I got doesn't include the fix that addresses the issues experienced by the folks on the linked thread over at RCgroups.

The main differences here are the Opto ESC and the fact that I upgraded to standard from the basic so that I could run this paperweight...I mean hex

 

[RTRyder]

No Oscilloscope here But also, it worked on the quad when I retested that (just to make sure the superx was working at ALL). So signal is being passed - but for some reason there is an issue with these Opto ESCs. Or somehow - the upgrade I got doesn't include the fix that addresses the issues experienced by the folks on the linked thread over at RCgroups.

The main differences here are the Opto ESC and the fact that I upgraded to standard from the basic so that I could run this paperweight...I mean hex

A thought just occurred to me, try it with just 4 ESCs plugged in, maybe the upgrade to hex didn't take and it won't allow the X to initialize if it sees anything connected to the ports beyond #4. Shot in the dark but easy enough to try...

Realistically there's nothing different about the way an opto ESC works from a control signal perspective vs. a standard unless they're from different manufacturers and the ones that don't work require a different low throttle signal as I've already mentioned, that much is solid fact and I can show you in Multiwii code where that can be changed to accommodate ESCs that have this problem. Unfortunately SuperX is closed software vs. Multiwii open source so I have no insight to how they deal with PWM outputs and why you're having this problem.

Ken

 

[Motopreserve]

OK Ken (and the rest of you!!!). Not sure where you stand on the Public Displays of Affection - but here goes... :cheerful:

Seriously, I just did your procedure of trying to trick the whole rig into thinking it was seeing lower throttle so it would arm. Honestly, after the first part mentioning 125 you lost me on this part:

"making sure the low throttle endpoint is at least at 100 or lower (higher number"

So at that point I was winging it. Weird thing is: I messed with the throttle and did Superx stick cal. then after doing the ESC reset to factory/stock, I redid the superx stick cal again. Then all of a sudden motor M2 started working. Armed, throttled, etc. Can't we all admit that we really always liked M2 best? Come on, you know you do...

At this point the end points were back to where I had them originally (Futaba: 135-100 100-135). I decided to do the ESC throttle cal - and after that they all work. Just checked again...yep, M2 is still my favorite, but they ALL look sexier running.

So now, I'm afraid that going back in and changing the ESC program to what it should be will mess it up. I need to change the battery type, cutoff threshold etc. And I also haven't done another stick cal - which I assume I should at some point. But I'm much further along....

Thanks again folks. You rally are amazing.

PS: this was with all 6 ESCs/motors connected. So I really don't know what the heck did it. I guess I should program the ESC to see if I can make the issue happen again, or not...

 

[fltundra]

UPDATE: when I got RT's last post I already had the harness wired to test a UBEC running direct to the red wires of the ESC. Glad it worked for you Tundra - but as has been my way this build...no luck.

Ken: I had done the end point move earlier. I doubt I did the procedure in the order you mentioned - so I can try that again. The futaba is set to 135 on the low point already. I also tried it with -125 on the taranis.

Also heard back from Drew. He has a call into the engineers at xaircraft and will hopefully help hone in on the issue. He mentioned that he is running OPTO with no problem. Figures


if that's the case, this may bring me back to the install of the upgrade. Perhaps the download they provided was not kosher? Hmmm. Who knows.

Was the bec you tried form one of your esc's? if not and it's separate you will need the ground also.

 

[Motopreserve]

Was the bec you tried form one of your esc's? if not and it's separate you will need the ground also.

No, the ESCs have no BEC. It was from the UBEC. I could always go back to that beauty of a harness (oh, the horror...), but at this point it seems I may be onto something.

At least you could reply no? What an unhappy loser...

I'm assuming this is another one not directed to me???

 

[fltundra]

No, the ESCs have no BEC. It was from the UBEC. I could always go back to that beauty of a harness (oh, the horror...), but at this point it seems I may be onto something.

I would go back and calibrate your throttle as you had them in the beginning and try it with both +and - 5volts to each of the six esc receiver wires.
Try it with two or three to see if those work first before you do all six. just the signal pins to the FC.

 

[RTRyder]

No, the ESCs have no BEC. It was from the UBEC. I could always go back to that beauty of a harness (oh, the horror...), but at this point it seems I may be onto something.



I'm assuming this is another one not directed to me???

No I do not believe it was directed to you but that is exactly the sort of thing we do not tolerate here so I just gave that user a 7 day vacation from the forum.

Ken

P.S. for those not aware of it, I am one of the moderators here even though it doesn't say that in my avatar screen.

P.P.S. your progress indicates that my statements about the low throttle output signal as seen by the ESC is spot on, keep working on the calibrations and I think you'll wind up with everything working fine.

 

[Motopreserve]

Tundra: at this point the throttle end points and everything else is back to normal. It's firing up. I just programmed the ESCs, then checked. Still working. Did the stock cal...checked again, ok. Then did the ESC throttle cal and it all worked out. Oh wait!!! One motor is NOT spinning. Did the ESC cal on that one motor again. Worked.

So at this point I'm not really sure what the hell went on (and that's never good). I know the good stuff happened after I began messing around with end points as RT suggested. But in the end - I had it back to the normal setting. By the time the M2 started spinning.

I wish is hi had a better idea of which step fixed it. And for sure I'm going to be testing this thing EXTENSIVELY without props or going outdoors. Also, I'll hope to hear back from drew and/or Jeff on what xaircraft have to say.

But it at this point the motors arm. I'm back to having all 3 servo wires hitting the motor outputs on the SuperX.

It still could be something funky in the firmware I suppose.

 

[RTRyder]

OK Ken (and the rest of you!!!). Not sure where you stand on the Public Displays of Affection - but here goes... :cheerful:

Seriously, I just did your procedure of trying to trick the whole rig into thinking it was seeing lower throttle so it would arm. Honestly, after the first part mentioning 125 you lost me on this part:

So at that point I was winging it. Weird thing is: I messed with the throttle and did Superx stick cal. then after doing the ESC reset to factory/stock, I redid the superx stick cal again. Then all of a sudden motor M2 started working. Armed, throttled, etc. Can't we all admit that we really always liked M2 best? Come on, you know you do...

At this point the end points were back to where I had them originally (Futaba: 135-100 100-135). I decided to do the ESC throttle cal - and after that they all work. Just checked again...yep, M2 is still my favorite, but they ALL look sexier running.

So now, I'm afraid that going back in and changing the ESC program to what it should be will mess it up. I need to change the battery type, cutoff threshold etc. And I also haven't done another stick cal - which I assume I should at some point. But I'm much further along....

Thanks again folks. You rally are amazing.

PS: this was with all 6 ESCs/motors connected. So I really don't know what the heck did it. I guess I should program the ESC to see if I can make the issue happen again, or not...

This is what I was referring to "At this point the end points were back to where I had them originally (Futaba: 135-100 100-135). " the ESC was calibrated to the -135 end point which is definitely below the threshold of what the SuperX or most any other flight controller would be putting out. Recalibrating the SuperX with that end point has done the proper cosmic alignment of the planets allowing the ESCs to see the correct PWM signal to allow them to initialize. You can change any setting you desire now, just DON'T do a throttle calibration and then change endpoint settings! For that matter if everything is working OK, don't do a throttle calibration at all, only time I ever do it is if the motors are running at different speeds due to variances in the ESCs but with custom firmware that just doesn't happen it's hardcoded in, so no need to calibrate

Ken

 

[Motopreserve]

Nice smack-down Ken. I think that may have been some type of spam, no?

I think I understand why/where we are at now. I did redo the ESC cal again - but it still worked. If I'm feeling like a bold MF I may try to see if I can get the taranis to work. Good god, I'm a gluten for punishment.

what should the futaba be at? That was a hold over from my multiwii board. BTW - if we were dealing with multiwii open source and SimonK firmware - we wouldn't be having this conversation!!!! How is it that I understand that stuff, and the "simple controller" has crushed me like a grape!

No I do not believe it was directed to you but that is exactly the sort of thing we do not tolerate here so I just gave that user a 7 day vacation from the forum.

Ken

P.S. for those not aware of it, I am one of the moderators here even though it doesn't say that in my avatar screen.

P.P.S. your progress indicates that my statements about the low throttle output signal as seen by the ESC is spot on, keep working on the calibrations and I think you'll wind up with everything working fine.

 

[Motopreserve]

Ken, you know the only reason I'm even going through this is so I can use the GPS mount and the FC holder you made for me

 

[RTRyder]

Nice smack-down Ken. I think that may have been some type of spam, no?

I think I understand why/where we are at now. I did redo the ESC cal again - but it still worked. If I'm feeling like a bold MF I may try to see if I can get the taranis to work. Good god, I'm a gluten for punishment.

what should the futaba be at? That was a hold over from my multiwii board. BTW - if we were dealing with multiwii open source and SimonK firmware - we wouldn't be having this conversation!!!! How is it that I understand that stuff, and the "simple controller" has crushed me like a grape!

Not spam, I know what it was about and it's not worth commenting on in the thread.

Here's what happened, you calibrated the Opto ESCs to have a low throttle endpoint that differed from what the SuperX and the quad ESCs had originally been calibrated to when you set it up which is why those ESCs wouldn't work. Because you did the setup on the quad with all the same settings on the TX start to finish the output of the SuperX after a stick calibration matched what the quad ESCs were calibrated for so they saw the signal they needed to initialize.

Because the Optos had a different calibration that didn't match the SuperX stick calibration they didn't see the signal they wanted so they didn't initialize. Once you reset them as I suggested several pages back, it reset the value the ESC needed to see to initialize. Once you started redoing the calibrations with all the various bits in synch the Opto ESCs now match the calibration of the SuperX and they work!

You might find that the ones on the quad don't work now although it depends on where the they think the low throttle end point should be...

As to what the Futaba should be at, wherever it was set when you did all the most recent calibrations, don't change it because things will stop working again!!!

Ken

 

[Motopreserve]

The weird thing is that I had done the superx cal a bunch of times throughout the day - but I guess not in that order? I just can't recall what order it was.

At at least I can follow this procedure again to get thing hopping again if I find certain ESCs aren't working.

Really appreciate all your help guys.

 

[Dhardjono]

ok thanks to motorpreserve i got my lazy behind to reinstalled the super x in my qav with simon k that has bec build in and it works so i have a working super x order the controller for nothing only 70 doll i can return or keep it . now did you fix your problem motorpresrve? we both have no bec on esc.

 

[Motopreserve]

ok thanks to motorpreserve i got my lazy behind to reinstalled the super x in my qav with simon k that has bec build in and it works so i have a working super x order the controller for nothing only 70 doll i can return or keep it . now did you fix your problem motorpresrve? we both have no bec on esc.

Yep. All seems well. I will be moving on with the build and testing - so only time will tell.

If you're having issues with OPTO ESCs then I'd recommend going back a few pages and reading RT and Tundras posts. The throttle end points seemed to be my issue.

Glad you got your superx back up and flying.

 

[RTRyder]

The weird thing is that I had done the superx cal a bunch of times throughout the day - but I guess not in that order? I just can't recall what order it was.

At at least I can follow this procedure again to get thing hopping again if I find certain ESCs aren't working.

Really appreciate all your help guys.

The key to your problem was what I said back in post 1039 and ultimately is what you did... "The only way to "fix" a problem like that is to reset the ESC to an uncalibrated state and then they should respond to the low throttle signal from the F/C as the default firmware setting is usually well above what the boards put out, usually somewhere around 1.140 to 1.160ms."

Once you reset the ESCs to factory default it cleared the eprom eliminating the problematic throttle calibration you did, now with it's default settings you were able to go ahead redo all the necessary calibrations on both the ESC and SuperX so that both are now in synch with the low throttle endpoint setting which is the important one that was preventing the Optos from working.

Same procedure should work in 99% of all instances of new ESCs not working on a previously configured and calibrated flight controller regardless of Opto or not, and regardless of who made the F/C. One case where it won't help is if the ESC reset doesn't clear the eprom, not all of them do although pretty much all of the major brand Chinese ones I've used do but its impossible to test every single one!

Ken

 

[Dhardjono]

The key to your problem was what I said back in post 1039 and ultimately is what you did... "The only way to "fix" a problem like that is to reset the ESC to an uncalibrated state and then they should respond to the low throttle signal from the F/C as the default firmware setting is usually well above what the boards put out, usually somewhere around 1.140 to 1.160ms."

Once you reset the ESCs to factory default it cleared the eprom eliminating the problematic throttle calibration you did, now with it's default settings you were able to go ahead redo all the necessary calibrations on both the ESC and SuperX so that both are now in synch with the low throttle endpoint setting which is the important one that was preventing the Optos from working.

Same procedure should work in 99% of all instances of new ESCs not working on a previously configured and calibrated flight controller regardless of Opto or not, and regardless of who made the F/C. One case where it won't help is if the ESC reset doesn't clear the eprom, not all of them do although pretty much all of the major brand Chinese ones I've used do but its impossible to test every single one!

Ken

ok thanks ken let me see in the manual how to reset these esc than i will recalb


just making sure this was what motorpreserve was getting