SkyJib and basic HL settings for MK Toolz

[DKTek]

OK, so my SkyJib 8 is ready to test fly. Since there's already a few flying, I'm curious as to any changes from stock settings that were made.

Mostly the gains... Heavy Lifters are presumably slower to spool up and decelerate, so that would make them slow to respond. I assume that you guys bumped up the gains. How much and are there other considerations?

My setup;
- SJ 8 with retracts and AV200/360 PRO, Picloc 3xPro
- 15-20 Plettys
- AeroDrive 8
- APC 14x4.7 props for now. The ZOARS, 14x6 and 15x5, are on the way.
- MK FC2.1ME, Navi2.0, GPS2.0(all latest firmware)
- 5S 30C for power

 

[jetforce]

Hi,

Here is a little setup addvice from the guys from Kopterworx. http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?2576-SkyJib8

Haven`t had the time to get mine flying yet, but now there is one week holliday on the program, so a few more days it will be airborn. I hope :black_eyed:

 

[DKTek]

Thanks Lars. I'll review it but first I need to double check that I installed the correct 25V Elko Cap on the MK FC. I already updated both of the DC/DC converters to TRACO's for the 5S power. They have a slightly lower max input voltage than the ARCH but the efficiency is a little better for the TRACO's.

 

[jetforce]

Thanks Lars. I'll review it but first I need to double check that I installed the correct 25V Elko Cap on the MK FC. I already updated both of the DC/DC converters to TRACO's for the 5S power. They have a slightly lower max input voltage than the ARCH but the efficiency is a little better for the TRACO's.

Ok, i bought it 5s ready

 

[seattle_helo]

OK, so my SkyJib 8 is ready to test fly. Since there's already a few flying, I'm curious as to any changes from stock settings that were made.

Mostly the gains... Heavy Lifters are presumably slower to spool up and decelerate, so that would make them slow to respond. I assume that you guys bumped up the gains. How much and are there other considerations?

Well my setup is different but similar. CS8 with 360° gimbal that's about 14lbs AUW. I think you're right these big suckers are probably slow to respond relative to a small birds but the changes I made from stock settings were to make everything even slower. I dialed down the Stick and Gyro values. I also dialed in a fair amount of expo. It's subjective but when I keep everything stock it was still too nimble and reactive. I'm trying to get the perfect combo of maneuverability and FFF along with docile motion that allows for nice feathered starts and stops from a stable hover.

The weather up here has been awful so I haven't tested .88 as much as I'd like but the overall flight performance is great and seems improved. AH in particular is really locked in, even in moderate winds of 10mph. Will be curious to hear what you think of it on your SJ. And please post your results with those other props. I'm especially curious about the 14x6's.

 

[DKTek]

Thanks guys.

Well, today's testing wasn't great. The pitch reaction time is too slow to keep up, the SJ ended up up its tail most of the time and occasionally the nose. Didn't even break ground! Good thing the test site had about 4 inches of freshly cut and very cushy grass. No damage at all to the props but that's why the APC's, and not the ZOARS, are installed.

Alright, issue at hand....here's what my partner and I did observe;

- Minimum gas is set to 10. During start, the motors come up to idle by ramping at least 6 times at roughly 1 sec intervals. You hear very distinct rpm changes. I own two stock MK OKTO's, red boards, and i don't hear them doing it.
- The even numbered motors were spinning slower as if yawing but the cal' shows no errors in Toolz.
- Spooling up to just prior to lift off speed, the Jib gets pitchy and ends up rocking fwd or aft to impact the soft terrain. It looks as if PIO is the culprit but it's not. I'm usually quick enough to kill the motors before or at impact to minimize the possible damage.
- While at idle, I manually tilted the Jib forward in PITCH and held. The motors spool up time was around 4 seconds...way to slow to be stable. Doing the same in ROLL, the motors seemed to respond as expected. The Jib pushed back in ROLL almost immediately.
- After reviewing the setup in Toolz, we loaded older firmware as there isn't much feedback on the latest .88e yet. The run up showed no changes from above so we started changing the PITCH gyro gains and settings. We used both minimum and maximum values eventually with minor changes in performance. The new batch of same test, were viewed live in Toolz. We put the gyros and motors up and observed the outputs. The gyros were indicating as expected but the motor outputs barely moved in PITCH. In ROLL, the gyro and motor outputs were almost parallel in movement....fast or slow. Roll is as expected.
- The YAW is unproven as it hasn't hovered yet. Other than the difference in rpm's, I can't really comment other than the motors can be synchronized with the rudder trim. We shouldn't have to do that either.

So, has anyone seen this issue or similar before? We have another FC 2.1ME to swap out if needed but I'd rather work with this one for now.

I hope it's not an issue with the AEROdrive 8....

 

[jetforce]

Hi Tek,

I`we send you a PM

 

[jetforce]

Thanks Lars. I'll review it but first I need to double check that I installed the correct 25V Elko Cap on the MK FC. I already updated both of the DC/DC converters to TRACO's for the 5S power. They have a slightly lower max input voltage than the ARCH but the efficiency is a little better for the TRACO's.

Hi DKTek, is it the same TRACO`s and ELKO as this ?

View attachment 3636View attachment 3637

 

[DKTek]

Yes, that is exactly my current set up....with a little less gel under the pressure sensor, ;-)). Although I can't read the number on the servo power TRACO, I'm using 6.5 volts.

 

[seattle_helo]

Just stabbing in the dark but are you sure all the fundamentals are good? Octo2 vs octo config? ACC is calibrated? Props not installed backwards? Did you go through the motors with props off and do a motor test via tools on each one to verify proper address and spin direction? Does the 3D gyro model in tools respond correctly to the orientation and motion of the machine?

 

[DKTek]

Just stabbing in the dark but are you sure all the fundamentals are good? Octo2 vs octo config? ACC is calibrated? Props not installed backwards? Did you go through the motors with props off and do a motor test via tools on each one to verify proper address and spin direction? Does the 3D gyro model in tools respond correctly to the orientation and motion of the machine?

Hey Seattle,

Not sure about the Okto2 Vs Okto but everything else is YES, and then some as we have two stock MK okto's and a Hexa flying. The difference is the Black Boards. We even looked at the two different processors available on the FC.

BTW, I rather enjoyed running the motors on the table while setting up with Toolz. I tried the iPhone Vibs application, oh what fun!

 

[seattle_helo]

The octo2 vs octo would shift every motor address over by one. Worth checking. One other thing you could do to further verify proper motor assignments is set the min gas to 0, remove all props and then start up the copter, lift it and do some aggressive tilts in each direction to see how the motors respond. With the min gas at zero its easy to see when a motor stops as you raise that particular side of the copter.

 

[jetforce]

Yes, that is exactly my current set up....with a little less gel under the pressure sensor, ;-)). Although I can't read the number on the servo power TRACO, I'm using 6.5 volts.

Gel is good :frog:

The Servo TRACO is also a TSR 1-2450, but I will use a seperat gimbal power supply anyway (7volt), so you will be using the TSR b1-2465 ?
View attachment 3638

 

[jetforce]

BTW, I rather enjoyed running the motors on the table while setting up with Toolz. I tried the iPhone Vibs application, oh what fun!

Talking about vibs, I did some experiments with alpha-gel, look here.: http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?2854-MK-ANTI-VIBRATION-PLATE-would-this-work

 

[DKTek]

OK, still no go. Something of interest though, when initializing, the spin sequence is.... 1,3,2,4,5,6,7,8. Two and three are out of sequence. Toolz motor test correspond correct.

Also, when calibrating the gyros, I get three beeps in rapid succession. My other Oktos, I get two beeps, a pause then one more beep.

Today, I pulled the stack apart and re-flowed the solder on the FC TRACO's. I also looked for anything out of place such as solder balls, typical of boards not cleaned after assembly.

I also pulled the top board from the AEROdrive 8 and shimmed the metal spacers with 1mm nylon washers. Reason is the board was resting on top of the CAPS... Look at the standoff height compared to the caps.
View attachment 3652

Also note that there were a couple of solder balls on the lower board as well, probably from when they soldered the 8mm power wires. What is different today is the motors didn't do the ramp up to idle as it did yesterday.

After many power cycles on the bench, Toolz being monitored, followed with manual tilting in PITCH and ROLL again while at idle, the SJ8 seemed to respond correctly in PITCH...finally! I disconnected every thing and took it outside for another test. Back to the same old thing again, minus the RPM ramp up. So now things seem to be intermittent, much worse. Maybe tomorrow I will give in and swap the FC which should rule out one of them, the FC or the AeroDrive 8.

I wish there was a manual for the AeroDrive. Not just a referance to the MK BLC's. How are the motors addressed on the AeroDrive? What about doing updates to firmware?

 

[seattle_helo]

OK, still no go. Something of interest though, when initializing, the spin sequence is.... 1,3,2,4,5,6,7,8. Two and three are out of sequence. Toolz motor test correspond correct.

Both of my MK setups do this as well. Not sure why but it does not effect flight performance.

Do you happen to have a regular MK power disto board you could install to check it against the AeroDrive? Swapping that out would be a pain in the *** but at least then you could isolate the issue one way or another.

 

[DKTek]

Thanks Seattle for confirming the spin up, one less thing to worry about.

I do have a HL MK power board built and I also have another FC 2.1ME. Actually, they are for my partners DW 8HL that's being assembled. I can check both but you're correct, I do however have access to the partners nice soldering equipment. Element style pumped solder suckers and hot air soldering irons along with the usual accessories. He builds SMT boards with pro results. He has a microscope set up for viewing the solder joints with great detail and uses it for hot air soldering. So swapping out the boards shouldn't be too bad. I just hate putting heat to the boards. It's bad enough figuring out the motor hookups. But good equipment will keep risk to a minimum.

Speaking of motor hookups, what did you guys end up with on the AeroDrive 8 and Pletty combo's? I used the White lead for the common right pad and alternated the Blue and Red leads for the left and center pads. Blue left and Red center for clockwise rotation. I attached 12awg, 24 inch's each, power leads going to the AeroDrive 8 pads with a 100 watt iron with a large head.

Now, talking about customer service. Yesterday I shimmed my speed controller and today these showed up, THANKS guys.
View attachment 3667

That's customer service!

 

[jetforce]

Speaking of motor hookups, what did you guys end up with on the AeroDrive 8 and Pletty combo's? I used the White lead for the common right pad and alternated the Blue and Red leads for the left and center pads. Blue left and Red center for clockwise rotation. I attached 12awg, 24 inch's each, power leads going to the AeroDrive 8 pads with a 100 watt iron with a large head.
QUOTE]

@ DKTek,

I know it`s a silly question, but you did place the aerodrive with the arrow pointing in forward flight direction ?

I can`t tell about the connection on the Pletty`s, but my AXI 2826/12 is Black left all, yellow mid and red right for clockwise rotation.

 

[DKTek]

Hey Lars, Yes it's proper alignment.

There's several pics of the AeroDrive set up with Axi's, which have long enough leads to reach the BLC's to show what's being used. The Pletty's have to have an extension added to all of the leads and a lot of guys(including me) just use black wire so I can't tell the order they used. I put small heat shrink pieces on mine to tell the difference.
View attachment 3671 Axi's View attachment 3672 My Pletty hook up wires. The Black reps the White wire...View attachment 3673

 

[redridinghood]

I would delay the build until you get the new Skyjib 8 center section.

View attachment 3680