ROVguy
Member
Hey Steve, how's things? Are these radians worth the expense?
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Radian stabilizers
- Thread starter 3dheliguy
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Hey Steve, how's things? Are these radians worth the expense?
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Bowley
Member
Hey Rich,
If I had not got the CS gimbal several months ago i would be holding out for brushless.
I haven't even fitted them yet, away at work just now. from what I see they and the PH skyline offer the best performance you can get from a servo driven Gimbal.
I got the radians because they are designed for the freefly servos and reading around I saw many were having problems with Skyline and Hoverfly Gimbal.
I will be keeping track of Photoshipone 3XPT Brushless offering in the pipeline.
The CS gimbal is well tried and tested with Radians and I guess if we wait for what is always just around the corner we will always be waiting.
ROVguy
Member
That's a bummer matey, I'm away to at the mo. my last trip for LAL then I'm back job hunting, possibly ROVing. I'm still doing the learning process with my 'cheapo' gimbal, saying that, I quite like it; I just need to make it smoother and more steady. Think a lot of it is down to my flying. I'm going to wait for the brushless gear, I'm thinking it will be readily available in the uk by the middle of the year.
Where you at at the mo?
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Where you at at the mo?
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Bowley
Member
I'm on the West Pheonix, west of Shetland, off on friday although never guaranteed with the shortage of Heli's since that EC225 ditched on its way here. Crew changes are hit and miss right now. Bloody hope I get off as I have a flight to Athens on Sunday.
Plenty ROV work right now, thinking of jumping to agency soon so I can focus on my project a little more, its slow going right now.
Noticed from your other post that you had your ATTI gains set at 100, try a little lower 50 -60 feel less elastic, or rigid, I find. you get bigger slower wobbles that your gimbal will handle better rather than rigid fast small wobbles. and less stick input is needed making for smoother rush's. I cant watch you vids out here...blocked and connection too slow anyway
Plenty ROV work right now, thinking of jumping to agency soon so I can focus on my project a little more, its slow going right now.
Noticed from your other post that you had your ATTI gains set at 100, try a little lower 50 -60 feel less elastic, or rigid, I find. you get bigger slower wobbles that your gimbal will handle better rather than rigid fast small wobbles. and less stick input is needed making for smoother rush's. I cant watch you vids out here...blocked and connection too slow anyway
ROVguy
Member
Thanks for the tip buddy. Ill look into my gains when i get back. I was worried that the ROV had dried up. The money is crap compared to what I'm doing, but it's still good in the scheme of things. Agency is definitely the way to go if there's work matey.
I need to get things keyed in copter wise, get my understanding up to speed and then start studying for the licence. It's a real pain in the arse, especially with the airframe restrictions, but at least we've got an avenue to work with unlike the unlucky buggers in the states!
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I need to get things keyed in copter wise, get my understanding up to speed and then start studying for the licence. It's a real pain in the arse, especially with the airframe restrictions, but at least we've got an avenue to work with unlike the unlucky buggers in the states!
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Bowley
Member
Well have a good hitch,
just getting back on topic, there is a set of radians on here going for a good price.
I have a lot of faith in anything John Cunningham is involved with, his Carvec system has been about for a good while I gather its still about the best FC available for SRH.
just getting back on topic, there is a set of radians on here going for a good price.
I have a lot of faith in anything John Cunningham is involved with, his Carvec system has been about for a good while I gather its still about the best FC available for SRH.
I already have several of these for my RSGS. Will they also work for the Radian or do they need to be 5.5k 1/4 watt?
http://photohigher.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Skyline-Wiring-Modification.pdf
http://photohigher.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Skyline-Wiring-Modification.pdf
Bowley
Member
Dont know Str8Up, I would think its worth using the same ones that the system has been designed and tested with, for the sake of a few more dollars when you already invested a lot of money in the gimbal and radians. Pretty shoddy that you didn't get them included, if the controller needs them to work then you got an incomplete product really
Tabb Firchau
Member
Str8 up, Yes those resistors should work OK with the Radian.
Best,
Tabb
Best,
Tabb
Maverick
Member
Hi Andy/Lec,
I've fitted one of these to my AV130, and I was wondering could you clarify a few things for me...?
1). In order to keep the roll cage from slopping about between the rollers, I have loosened the screws on the rollers, and slid them snugly up against the roll cage, and tightened them. (If I slacken them any, the roll cage has play in it). How tight are your rollers against your roll cage...? When FF servo is in mesh with the roll gear, the cage is slightly stiff to turn by hand, not like the tilt...Is this normal...?
2). When I removed the gear wheel from the roll servo, and let the gimbal hang by itself, because of the tilt servo and the Radian module hanging on the same side, the gimbal is out of balance when the CX??? is mounted in the centre of the camera tray. So I had to move it over to the other side, leaving it off centre, in order to get it balanced. Is this necessary...?
3). While testing on the bench, I tried gains at 100, 150, 200, but when I tilt the Y6 by hand from side to side and watch the transmitted view from my VTx on the monitor, I can see that the horizon is not holding. It catches up, but it's noticeably latent. I'm just wondering is there something wrong, if I have to up my gains to 300 or 400, in order to get the horizon to be locked in...? I'm still in the middle of trial and error gain testing, but my last test, I had the gains at 799, and it locked brilliantly on the bench, but when I tested it in flight, it was twitching, so my next flights will be with lower gains, but I honestly don't think having my gains at 130 like your's will be enough...
Thanks,
Maverick.
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ZAxis
Member
We've now moved on from the AV130 but keep it ready as a backup. We now have an Alexmos based brushless gimbal by KamKop, which was worth the upgrade.
1- The roll cage is pretty tight up against the rollers to remove any slack. The edges of the cage are aligned in the grooves of the rollers. A few crashes had bent the cage but with patience it was possible to get it back in line. The roll action is smooth but definitely stiff compared to a brushless. I rely on the power of the servo to overcome this. The servo gear wheel to roll rack is lubricated with high quality Teflon based grease.
2 - The AV130 is definitely lop sided and must rely again on the inherent power of the servo to correct for it. I made up a plastic box with some lead in it and fixed it on the opposite side to the servo which did help with the balance but I never bothered to precisely balance it.
3 - Gains ... always been a black art, what works for one person won't for another! I think you're just going to have to figure them out by trial and error. The roll was slow to come back if disturbed by more than a little bit but held the horizon if flown smoothly. I think the tight control at high gains was at the expense of power to actually hold the moves hence its difficulty once under the Y6.
I hope this helps.
andy
Maverick
Member
Thanks for the reply Andy! - glad to know I'm encountering the same things as you.
I greased the rollers and cage rails with Vaseline, and used lithium grease (for servo internal gears) on the FF servo gear wheel. I did another test flight today with the gains at 400%, I had no twitching, but it still wasn't strong enough to hold the horizon level. I ran out of daylight, after playback of the SD card, so tomorrow I'll try 500% and more, and see how it goes...
Is it a waste of time then offsetting the camera to the light side to balance the roll...?
I thought about the BL upgrade myself, but firstly, they're all fairly heavy when motors are included, in comparison to the AV130, as mine hasn't the heavy lift motors (mine are AXI 2217/20 Droidworx branded motors), and I'm near my MTOM already, and secondly, with the price of the AV130, and not wanting it to just lie there, useless, I was hoping the Radian could revive my faith in it again.....
How do you find the KamKop...? I read somewhere that BLGs that were cantilevered from the tilt motor, and not supported on both sides of the camera tray, weren't ideal. So I had started looking at BetView BLG, and iFlight, which I think are the exact same gimbal. Maybe I should do the upgrade, or else upgrade my Radian to the Carvec system...
View attachment 14913
I greased the rollers and cage rails with Vaseline, and used lithium grease (for servo internal gears) on the FF servo gear wheel. I did another test flight today with the gains at 400%, I had no twitching, but it still wasn't strong enough to hold the horizon level. I ran out of daylight, after playback of the SD card, so tomorrow I'll try 500% and more, and see how it goes...
Is it a waste of time then offsetting the camera to the light side to balance the roll...?
I thought about the BL upgrade myself, but firstly, they're all fairly heavy when motors are included, in comparison to the AV130, as mine hasn't the heavy lift motors (mine are AXI 2217/20 Droidworx branded motors), and I'm near my MTOM already, and secondly, with the price of the AV130, and not wanting it to just lie there, useless, I was hoping the Radian could revive my faith in it again.....
How do you find the KamKop...? I read somewhere that BLGs that were cantilevered from the tilt motor, and not supported on both sides of the camera tray, weren't ideal. So I had started looking at BetView BLG, and iFlight, which I think are the exact same gimbal. Maybe I should do the upgrade, or else upgrade my Radian to the Carvec system...
View attachment 14913
Attachments
ZAxis
Member
Mav...
The AV130 is basically first generation technology and expectations now exceed its capability. Using the CX740 was our way of overcoming some of the limitations but it still left the roll to sort. I did consider slipping the roll drive cog off the rack to leave it sort of free running then trying to balance it carefully. Lead counter balance and positioning the camera & Radian on the platform were things to try but never did. Also perhaps getting rid of any pendulum effect by raising or lowering the platform but the need to clear the viewfinder when out to switch it on and the roll rack put paid to that.
Bit the bullet and went BL, things really improved, particularly on the roll axis, however the third axis was a waste of time as the motor was not strong enough to use for anything other than gentle movements. We abandoned that. Supporting the platform from one side was an early worry but proved to be no issue. It does give superb access to connections on the free side. The KamKop gimbal is expensive but is well made from good quality materials. It survived a recent heavy landing, that broke an undercarriage leg, and protected the camera nicely. Good German engineering! .... pity about the third axis.
Weight wise we've had no worries about the Y6 lifting it.
Recently used a ZenMuse GH3 and it was another step up on the Alexmos based gimbal. Worked right out of the box once the camera was balanced, no gains to set.... but with only one lens/camera configuration! You just can't win in this game. Perhaps another year's development will progress things and get us to spend even more money on the grail quest..... perhaps not.
The Carvec seems over priced when compared to any Alexmos board but a brave attempt to rescue an abandoned system.
So good luck
andy
The AV130 is basically first generation technology and expectations now exceed its capability. Using the CX740 was our way of overcoming some of the limitations but it still left the roll to sort. I did consider slipping the roll drive cog off the rack to leave it sort of free running then trying to balance it carefully. Lead counter balance and positioning the camera & Radian on the platform were things to try but never did. Also perhaps getting rid of any pendulum effect by raising or lowering the platform but the need to clear the viewfinder when out to switch it on and the roll rack put paid to that.
Bit the bullet and went BL, things really improved, particularly on the roll axis, however the third axis was a waste of time as the motor was not strong enough to use for anything other than gentle movements. We abandoned that. Supporting the platform from one side was an early worry but proved to be no issue. It does give superb access to connections on the free side. The KamKop gimbal is expensive but is well made from good quality materials. It survived a recent heavy landing, that broke an undercarriage leg, and protected the camera nicely. Good German engineering! .... pity about the third axis.
Weight wise we've had no worries about the Y6 lifting it.
Recently used a ZenMuse GH3 and it was another step up on the Alexmos based gimbal. Worked right out of the box once the camera was balanced, no gains to set.... but with only one lens/camera configuration! You just can't win in this game. Perhaps another year's development will progress things and get us to spend even more money on the grail quest..... perhaps not.
The Carvec seems over priced when compared to any Alexmos board but a brave attempt to rescue an abandoned system.
So good luck
andy
Maverick
Member
Yes Andy, I think you're right, I'm fighting a losing battle with this ageing system...
I take it yous went for Kamkop's 'Brushless Gimbal S' and not 'L'...? I never noticed their 3rd axis upgrade for this one... Are yous flying the CX740 on it ?
Im scouring the net since, researching my best options for a BL upgrade.
Basically I've narrowed it down, and I'm thinking of GotHeliRC's version.
2 axis is only 420 grams Ready-To-Go.
3 axis is only 560grams Ready-To-Go.
Tahoelight advised me to go with the 3 axis, for the AlexMos 'follow-mode' which seems a cool feature, to smooth out any unwanted yaw movements. But now you've worried me a bit, after your experience.
The AV130 is around 410grams, so no real difference to switch to the 2 axis version, but am I going to be wishing I went for the full 3 axis when I was doing so...?
Here is another thread I started to help me decide :
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...sion-OR-Tension-Anti-Vibration-Damping-System
BTW, did yous buy those anti-vibration dampers at €40 a piece...?
I take it yous went for Kamkop's 'Brushless Gimbal S' and not 'L'...? I never noticed their 3rd axis upgrade for this one... Are yous flying the CX740 on it ?
Im scouring the net since, researching my best options for a BL upgrade.
Basically I've narrowed it down, and I'm thinking of GotHeliRC's version.
2 axis is only 420 grams Ready-To-Go.
3 axis is only 560grams Ready-To-Go.
Tahoelight advised me to go with the 3 axis, for the AlexMos 'follow-mode' which seems a cool feature, to smooth out any unwanted yaw movements. But now you've worried me a bit, after your experience.
The AV130 is around 410grams, so no real difference to switch to the 2 axis version, but am I going to be wishing I went for the full 3 axis when I was doing so...?
Here is another thread I started to help me decide :
http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...sion-OR-Tension-Anti-Vibration-Damping-System
BTW, did yous buy those anti-vibration dampers at €40 a piece...?
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