Promoting Commercial sUAS.


R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Yeah... I would bet 333 never would have happened if Pirker hadn't sued. That basically pushed the FAA to do something.
 

kloner

Aerial DP
the agreement between the faa and ama on the "limited use restrictions" at sanctioned ama fields from 1981 was cancelled effective today..... i'd say something pretty big happened. This would stem from that, but then the emaciated translation faa gave to the ama about what constitutes hobby vs commercial somewhat intiated a law suit from the ama to the faa and from what i see, definately started a new road to hobby use freedom.

That sucks, i belong to ama, use there fields to go vent playing with 3d planks
 

Ronan

Member
the agreement between the faa and ama on the "limited use restrictions" at sanctioned ama fields from 1981 was cancelled effective today..... i'd say something pretty big happened. This would stem from that, but then the emaciated translation faa gave to the ama about what constitutes hobby vs commercial somewhat intiated a law suit from the ama to the faa and from what i see, definately started a new road to hobby use freedom.

That sucks, i belong to ama, use there fields to go vent playing with 3d planks

The FAA pretty much gave the AMA the middle finger, right?
 

kloner

Aerial DP
pretty much and a lot based on ama's acceptance of fpv from what i can tell. They weren't very interested in letting fpv be a part of our operations. I honestly don't know, just assuming off the record of course
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
So, what is the FAA going to do when we have "sense and avoid" to a higher performance level than manned private aviation? It'll happen within about a year. Won't that expose private aviation as being the true risk that it is?
 

kloner

Aerial DP
get me one and we will show them who's safer.

Make sure it includes ads-b reporting..... That alone would leave 99% of the private planes in the dust.... mode-c, pfffft
 

Old Man

Active Member
The AMA filed suit against the FAA, which likely prompted an FAA retaliatory action. People in power cannot tolerate being challenged at any level, and a lawsuit against the FAA by a non profit organization just might expose a level of ineptitude that will be even less favorably tolerated.

For ADS-B to work ALL aircarft would have to be so equipped. Under current regulations a great many civil aircraft are exempt from such equipment standards. All they have to do is be lacking an electrical system or avoid controlled airspace where such equipment is required. They are exempt from having any type of transponder or two way communications as well. See and avoid is a purely visual activity with that group and the success rate is less than 100%, even IN controlled airspace.

As far as the FAA and regulating what we do is concerned, I can only see their possible right to control in two areas. One is in flying for hire, which is pretty well defined in the FAR's. The next is the distinction between a model aircraft, which may now be moot, and regular aircraft. A multirotor is not a scale model of anything but a multirotor and each one is essentially "full" scale. And as a rule they are "unmanned". That latter definition is something that happened to me when I got married, but that's another story completely unrelated to aviation... In any case, by flying an unmanned aircraft that is not truly a "model" aircraft, for hire, there could be some legal wrangling that could cause people some angst. However, to date the courts have ruled against the FAA but their voiding the model aircraft rules might have significant impact on future rulings in this regard. The game is on.

BTW, very small Mode C transponders are already in existence and commercial use. They could still be a little smaller. I was in conversation with one of the manufacturer's on that subject yesterday. If the power output requirements were a little less they could become quite small.
 
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kloner

Aerial DP
Where i'm training we all use ipad as a secondary nav aid and with the desired gps modules, they have ads-b reporting so if nothing else, would show up there. in our case a notam is issued when we file a plight plan just like other commercial ops. OM, isn't these military rigs you fly equipped with ads-b?

There is a time frame for all commercial aircraft to have ads-b by a certain date i thought.....

the other part of what we have with return to home feature set and a lot of flight controllers having waypoint capability is your also dealing with autonomous aircraft which lets be honest, is the main systems there so worried about
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
get me one and we will show them who's safer.

Make sure it includes ads-b reporting..... That alone would leave 99% of the private planes in the dust.... mode-c, pfffft

It's coming. We already have ADS-B data that can show up on the ground control station. Now we're working on taking the GPS data coming from the UAV, and uploading it into the ADS-B internet system. So, we won't have ADS-B on the UAV as the system is too heavy, but it can be done with the GCS acting as intermediary and using the internet.
 

Old Man

Active Member
OM, isn't these military rigs you fly equipped with ads-b?

Not all. The smaller stuff used up in Alaska does not. Some have only a mode C altitude encoding transponder which will trigger an ADS-B response in a full scale. OTH, a few <55lbs do have full ADS-B capability.
 


Old Man

Active Member
Not so sure about that. Always seems I know less today than I did yesterday. For certain I know less than I did when I was 15.
 

filmfly

Member
I’ve been following this thread since it’s inception in August, and I believe a path forward is becoming clear. There are a lot of good points that have been made here, and a lot of passionate voices. We’re on the right track – there is a need to speak up for our interests, especially now as so much is changing so quickly.

It’s obvious that there are a great number of us who are being affected by these changes, but most of us so far have just been swept along for the ride without a voice. The regulations haven’t kept up with the technology, and many of us are facing uncertain futures both for commercial and private operations.

IT’S TIME TO ACT! An organization must be formed to represent us – the users of small Unmanned Aircraft Systems. We aren’t big aerospace, but we are an important part of this emerging industry. This technology was largely built by the work of individuals and small businesses. As the use of UAS explodes in the coming years, we have the right not to be excluded.

I will start by moving this to a new thread. Anyone who has an opinion is encouraged to continue discussing it with me there. As has been said before, focusing on the things we agree upon will get us further than arguing over the finer details right now. The first point is, we need an organization that represents us as people who take sUAS seriously and wish to maintain the right to operate them both privately and, if we so choose, professionally.
 

Av8Chuck

Member
Thanks filmily, I agree.

I was overwhelmed at the generosity of all those that contributed video and volunteered to help promote Commercial sUAS at the Camarillo Air Show and its kind of obvious that this thread has run its coarse. I got a lot of insight from everyone outside the US and I think you have a lot to contribute to creating an organization that advocates for the commercial use of sUAS. So please make the pilgrimage to the "Representation for Commercial sUAS" thread and introduce yourself and lets get this party started.
 

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