Pricing - Please stop cutting our own throats.

SMP

SMP

Member
Chuckling here, believe me Jes I was being charitable. It was ugly. And yes, I'm hoping the FAA makes it bloody impossible. Bottom line is that if we, the Content Providers, don't start finding some kind of symmetry this will be over before it starts.

(And yes, Patrick, Lanzar, Tim Nilson and Hobby King are probably the only smart ones out of all of us...)
 

econfly

econfly

Member
Problem is, this sort of "stand together or fall apart" stuff never works. It focuses on the wrong thing -- the price. The right thing to emphasize is the product. Part of any business is the art of convincing the buyer that you offer the best value for the money, and especially when you want more money than the next guy. The market understands this. People buy $50,000 new cars when a $10,000 used one would work. They buy expensive clothes when cheap would cover them just as well. There is demand for quality out there, and, for better or worse, there is a demand to keep up with the neighbors. This is why we still have big money being spent on wedding photography, for example, when just about everyone in attendance has a camera phone on them. Technology in this space is going to kill the easy money just as it killed the low end of the wedding market. The high end will remain for those who can sell.
 

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stitch1615

Member
SMP said:
Dear Fellow Drone Pilots,
Gentlemen, UAV's are the future, they ARE BEGGING for our services, please don't poison the well, we're just getting started!!!!
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Nice try but there will always someone who will cut your price. It's your quality that will sustain you.
I was a wedding photographer for over 15 years and competed with "Uncle Joe" all the time.
I used to have 2 albums in my showroom. Mine and one from Uncle Joe. Guess who got the business?
We were a high end studio and not everyone could afford us but we kept our packages the same and once in a while on a rare Saturday we'd go play golf or whatever. Fortunately not too many.
That was of course before the digital craze that made everyone an instant photographer. It was also before generation X who believe iphone photos are "the bomb".
Professionals will always be in demand by professionals. Keep it professional and charge a fair price and you'll do alright.
 

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jes1111

Active Member

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fj_montilla

Member
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I'm a believer of free market economy, let the market regulate itself. I would hate the idea of some Organization setting price limits or price regulation to my goods or services. F-that! That's good for commodities, not for services. Whether we like it or not, consumer multirotors are here, and anyone can get one. So our job now is how we differentiate from the others. Some have know-how, some have experience, some have lots videos to show, and some have the ability to get clients. That's competition; deal with it. Protectionism has no place in innovation. You win some, you lose some. Just my 2/100 of a dollar.
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
This is a very interesting topic for me - I can listen in objectively, since I'm not a pro (and probably never will be). But what I do have experience with is your much-mentioned musicians. I've been a recording engineer for 18 years, and about 10 years ago it became VERY easy and inexpensive for a "broke musician" to head to Guitar Center and buy a recording rig for their very own home (or rehearsal space).

"No more recording studio costs! No need to pay an engineer!!! We are going to be gods!!!!!" Um. Ok.

After 1 or 2 attempts, these same people were at my studio doorstep to record. Was the technology now available to everyone inexpensively? Yep. Were they able to record? Sorta. Did it sound like Dark Side of the Moon? Not a chance! Availability of the gear did not (and DOES not) equate to having the skills to use it correctly. Quality, and the desire for that quality was still present. And to obtain it - they eventfully realized they needed to pay accordingly for it.

If you have the skill and quality gear, the clients will come back around. If they don't, they probably wouldn't recognize (or need) the quality you provide to begin with. Let 'em grab a Phantom. Unfortunately you might have to wait out a round or two, but they'll come back to quality. Don't chase the low-ball prices to stay in the game. BE the game maker, and be sure people understand why you are in a different league (and price range).
 

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soundman57

Member
Hi,
totally agree I am in the same situation I am a studio owner and engineer ( live sound) got into drones about 4 years ago and have been following the tech for 3 years prior to that, so far invested over 60 k plus many hours so , clients either pay for the quality or I stay home.

I charge by the hour depending on the degree of risk flying over water (e.g) . and I start at $1000.00 to leave home.
 

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
SMP said:
So heres what I'm suggesting for the GOPRO smallies: Camera Dumps, No Music Video, No NLE.
1 Flight 1500 bucks.
Half Day (3-4) Flights 4500 bucks
Full Day (8 Flights) 7000 bucks.
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Personally, I just don't see the value to the client in $1.5k for a single GOPRO flight. Sure, you could argue that you are flying that $400 camera on a $10K copter that you spent months building and years learning to fly, but at the end of the day, it's still a GoPro. I bet my wife can put that same GoPro on her Zenmuse equipped phantom and get the same shot that you will, and I won't even have to leave the house to help her! At that point, your single flight totaled the same cost that we have in her entire rig.

I also don't agree with your Ford dealership breakdown. Those guys aren't looking at your copter and thinking that it is a replacement for a full scale heli. I don't think they are even interested in a full scale heli most of the time, and if they did, they surely wouldn't expect to get GoPro footage from it, so your comparison isn't apples to apples. More often than not, those guys are looking at these aircraft and thinking of them as a crane without limitations. Get flyovers of the lot in a manor similar to a crane/jib, but without some of the limitations. Even with that comparison, they would expect something of higher quality than a GoPro, so again that comparison doesn't make sense to me.

I see folks that argue how newbs charging $300 for a shoot is bad for business. I can agree with that, but I can also say that people that try to gouge the market are just as bad, if not worse. People don't always recover well from sticker shock, and someone that might expect to pay $2k for a day rate of decent raw footage might never ask twice when they get a price of 3x that for footage shot with the same GoPro camera their kids strap to their skate helmet when they hit the park on the weekends.

I'm all for getting a fair wage for an honest days work. Lord knows that the skill set required to do what we do is very unique to say the least, and we should be justly compensated for that, but I'm also all about providing value to my customers. Maybe that is a bad thing when you are in business for yourself, but I honestly feel that you get more work when you are fair and make your clients happy.

Just my $0.02.
 

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sk8brd

Member
low end is low end high end is high end regardless of how easy it is to fly. same thing happen when dslr's got easier and cheaper. if a newb can get the same result as a pro the problem is the pro then.
 

dazzab

dazzab

Member
sk8brd said:
low end is low end high end is high end regardless of how easy it is to fly. same thing happen when dslr's got easier and cheaper. if a newb can get the same result as a pro the problem is the pro then.
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I can't agree with this. An amateur _might_ get good results or they might do something stupid and cause a lot of issues. A professional is trained, has the experience to get the result you want and puts their money where their mouth is by making sure they have insurance, pay their employees properly etc. All this adds up to much higher overhead and that's what you are paying for. If you want to take the risk with an amateur you may or may not get the results. Don't forget that some things we photograph are one offs. You can't go back and shoot some things and the client isn't going to want to hear that you forgot your batteries or your copter broke or you crashed and you don't have a backup.
Every pro photographer knows that the gear isn't what gets the results. The most important factor is two inches behind the camera.
 

Lanzar

Lanzar

Member
When i read this i said i need to write something down. More like personal experience.

Well we all know the problem with prices. We try to stick to our prices and see what happens.
If the client does not know what he wants he Will experiment with the low-riders since they hire for the bonus shots then. This has 2 sides.

1. Cause off the 500 eur per day or less aerial filmmakers they Will say that the technology is not good and wait another year until it gets better and you lost the client for a long time.
2. Or they will try another one in future

I just had a chance to hear some good words yesterday. We were doing a commercial for a Swedish clients and there was a guy there for downloading the files on storage and at the end he watched some footage when he had the time to do it and while showing it to the DOP.

He stopped me and said that they tried a lot off them and from what he has seen today he wants to work with us.
The good part is that if a DOP or client that hires you has good experience he will not look for somebody else but call you always.
Even if they had bad experience and you perform for them on the first job they will hire you always.

I have some calls from other production companies when DOP wants us and nobody else so they are calling if we are avaliable.
So there are ups and down in this.
Well we see them all in shop. THe ones who work or try to work for 100 eur per day to the ones that charge 7000 eur per day.

Prices are not that easy to set. First you have USA and Canada, Europe, Asia, Dubai and emirates.
So how to do it. This is not easy.

But you cant compare a team with only one normal skyjib (he thinks he has a RED capable heavy lifter) with a fake Chinese alemoss gimball with brushless motors to a team for instance like us. We have 2 copters hammer x8 –12 pounder and 2x movi 10, our RED epic, and expect we will go for the same price. Even the performance will not be the same.
But again et the end is always the same. Well while you said you charge for instance 5000 eur per day while this other team is charging 3500.
The personnel that manages the part on hiring is not technical. He or she does not know the difference in alexmos gimbal vs MOVI 10. Well I noticed that DOP have now seen the potential in MOVI 10 and it has become the standard in the industry and they all heard for it. But again the guys also say they have like a movi 10 gimbal.

You just cant beat this game.

We also had some huge blows and kicks in our asses in the past and this is how it goes. Pick up and move forward.

I have some HOLLYWOOD production stories also and some Camel racing stories. Maybe another time.
 
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SleepyC

SleepyC

www.AirHeadMedia.com
These are all good points, but seeing the fuzzy GoPro looking shots I have seen on some very major television shows recently, I don;t think the industry is caring all that much.
I get so mad seeing the shaky crappy footage being used in shows.. ERRR.
 

SMP

SMP

Member
Chuckling here...

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PeterLester

Member
If you really want to see some bad aerial video work, check out the opening scene of the old 1972 release of the Hitchcock movie entitled "Frenzy".... that plane must have been flying with a drunk pilot and videographer thru a shear line!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenzy


SleepyC said:
These are all good points, but seeing the fuzzy GoPro looking shots I have seen on some very major television shows recently, I don;t think the industry is caring all that much.
I get so mad seeing the shaky crappy footage being used in shows.. ERRR.
Click to expand...
 


S

Str8 Up

Member
Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
 




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