Picloc 3x setting experience etc.

[MombasaFlash]

Connection problems
... I installed HD55 on my PiclocPro with FlashMagic. Rebooted the picloc, started PiclocToolz HD55.

As described on Georges Website, I deselected Continuous Updates, pressed Connect, it seemed that there was no connection.
Then I hit Factory Default+Restart, nothing happened...

When you deselect Continuos Update and hit Connect you will get an orange line for a bit and then it looks like nothing is happening. This is entirely normal. After toggling the various parameters on and off you then click Save To Eprom. PL will reboot with the new firmware now active. At this point you then select Continuous Update to return to normal.

If everything appears to have stalled perhaps you did not Save to Eprom to complete the update. Try reloading the previous firmware (E055) and do a Factory Reset. You have made a note of the settings haven't you? If it all comes back run the HD55 update again. If it doesn't you will have to wait for George.

wow, that i haven't expected. so strong magnetics around the servos. The recommended or showed place to stick it on the AV200 and other gimbals are actually not good for the PL-Pro and the magnetometer.

an other question: the servos (prop-tilt+roll) are moving now slower than they worked before with an earlier version. so, the are always directing beyond the original direction it. (like in the tutorial-video, where the smooth-integral is on. On the Pan with the 360-Servo, i can adjust it with the Propotional-Value, plus acceleration and smooth. But i can not give more propotional Value for the Roll and Tilt with a poti, right? Right. Who to fast these servos up?

and: the roll without slew-mode is only moving few millimeter. jochen wrote already about it.

There is only one spot on the AV200 that is far enough from all the servos to not affect the PL magnetometer and that is low down on the legs opposite the Tilt servo. It is a hideous place to have all the wires travelling to and from so I have unchecked the Magnetometer and will not bother with it. The Pan axis appears to work pretty well without it anyway. For the most part the Pan axis is a royal pain and the new addition of an intelligent manual switch that not only works, but resets the heading when it is reactivated is a welcome and essential feature.

The servos only moving a few millimeters seems to be something to do with HD55. However, if you HAVE to have proportional control of the Tilt or Roll axes (which are not 360 servos) you can try selecting '360' under SERVO and you can then choose Slew or Prop under FUNCTIONS. This is only a workaround until the issue is resolved with another firmware update because it does tend to upset the servo centre position slightly.

Don't forget that the 'Smooth' slider is only to be used with the Pan axis on an AV200 - it is the only 360 servo.

HD55 defaults to a lower Stick Authority value (FUNCTIONS) so you may need to bump that value up to speed up stick response.

 

[MombasaFlash]

Another problem . I have a small servo for moving the video antenna up and down. Its on Pl as servo 5.
Now the servo way is only about 10 degree. Earlier it was about 110 degree.
George , Is it possibel to change the servo resolution for every servo?

Run it direct from the Rx.

Servo resolution is universal for the moment.

 

[midiman007]

Questions I have about the Picloc functionality

My understanding of how the PL funtions goes like this. You point the camera at something, then center the control. The PL now maintains camera attitude regardless of the flight deck attitude changes, within reason. Is this right?

In operation, does moving a stick further from center make that servo move faster?

Using GPS, you can point the camera at a long/lat and change the position of the quad and the camera maintains aim at that location.

Using the mags, you can point the camera in some direction, like North, and the camera will stay pointed in that direction regardless of flightdeck yaw changes.

There is some switch set to cause the PL to RTH position? Can you control the speed the gimbal moves to home? What other special functions are available?

I just watched a video of the Wookong-M and read some of the manual for it. It's tilt/roll is nearly perfect(not sure anything can be perfect), but it's only 2 axis. Of course it's more than a gimbal control. But it's the only thing that's as good as the PL in 2 axis, and it's twice the price.

When I started thinking about building an AP ship, several months ago, I came to the conclusion that the best configuration would be a 2 person operation, 2 radios, 2 video links, etc. It's too much to be a pilot and cameraman and do both jobs competantly. I guess it depends on what you're trying to shoot. And I guess, if you have enough room, you can pilot using the stabilized camera feed, like FPV-Lief does, I think.

It would also seem more complicated for a 2 axis, 2 person configuration, in co-ordinating the yaw.

It would seem like 3 axis stabilized control is the optimum for a 2 operator ship.

Have I misunderstood anything? Sorry if some of this seems simple. I'm really new to this field. As the start of my build using the PL rapidly approaches, I want to understand how it's supposed to work.

Kenny

 

[MombasaFlash]

My understanding of how the PL funtions goes like this. You point the camera at something, then center the control. The PL now maintains camera attitude regardless of the flight deck attitude changes, within reason. Is this right?

Yes

In operation, does moving a stick further from center make that servo move faster?

Yes

Using GPS, you can point the camera at a long/lat and change the position of the quad and the camera maintains aim at that location.

Theoretically, yes. It requires extra hardware and software setup. This is available within the MikroKopter domain with an external GPS transmitter and additional GPS receiver. MK also provides for a basic POI camera attitude with waypoint programmed flight where a POI is specified beforehand for the camera to point at.

Using the mags, you can point the camera in some direction, like North, and the camera will stay pointed in that direction regardless of flightdeck yaw changes.

I am not sure about this. It is not currently a function of Picloc as far as I know and anyway the magnetometer problems related in these pages rule out this sort of precise heading control.

There is some switch set to cause the PL to RTH position? Can you control the speed the gimbal moves to home? What other special functions are available?

Picloc uses Aux 1 on control channel 4 for the RTH function. All three axes return to the preset centre on my big copter but only Tilt and Roll do so on my AD-8 until I figure out why Pan does not. The speed at which servos RTH is not currently adjustable, however it is neither slow nor violent. The other current PL option is STOP. This freezes the servos on all three axes and shuts down ALL camera mount activity. The state is exited by switching to RTH and back to STOP, at which point the servos are re-enabled.

I just watched a video of the Wookong-M and read some of the manual for it. It's tilt/roll is nearly perfect(not sure anything can be perfect), but it's only 2 axis. Of course it's more than a gimbal control. But it's the only thing that's as good as the PL in 2 axis, and it's twice the price.

Are you planning on using a single rotor helicopter or a Multi Rotor? Since you are posting here it must be MR. The camera mount Pan axis is the least important of the three. The Care Free feature that is built into MK FC, plus the the MR's inherent stability, mean that a pilot is free to turn the MR to face whatever direction the camera needs to be. Then you don't have to worry about the baggage that comes with a 3-axis gimbal and Pan stabilisation.

When I started thinking about building an AP ship, several months ago, I came to the conclusion that the best configuration would be a 2 person operation, 2 radios, 2 video links, etc. It's too much to be a pilot and cameraman and do both jobs competantly. I guess it depends on what you're trying to shoot. And I guess, if you have enough room, you can pilot using the stabilized camera feed, like FPV-Lief does, I think.

You are correct that one man splitting his concentration between flying the machine and trying to frame the camera will end up doing both tasks poorly. For professional video results a two-man setup is pretty much essential. Still photography is different. With an MR's ability to 'park' in the sky, a single operator has plenty of time to then concentrate on the downlink monitor, frame the shot and click the shutter release. With a two-man video setup the pilot does not normally need a monitor as he should not be looking at anything other than the helicopter. You would need serious balls to fly one-man FPV with a pro camera on board.

It would also seem more complicated for a 2 axis, 2 person configuration, in co-ordinating the yaw.

A gimbal that incorporates Pan control is more complicated to build, set up and stabilise than a two axis Tilt/Roll mount. For this reason it is not uncommon for the camera operator to have control of the helicopter rudder and this becomes his Pan axis control. Of course the pilot can take back tail control at any time. However, this option is for single-rotors, not MR's where the three control axes are all tightly integrated and coordinated by the FC.

It would seem like 3 axis stabilized control is the optimum for a 2 operator ship.

Not necessarily "optimum" but it does of course offer the maximum autonomous camera control to a dedicated operator.

Have I misunderstood anything? Sorry if some of this seems simple. I'm really new to this field. As the start of my build using the PL rapidly approaches, I want to understand how it's supposed to work.

Of course it is sensible to find out as much as possible before jumping in but most of your learning will be by actually doing it and learning from your mistakes. Experience counts for everything in AP and there are no shortcuts. It also requires perseverance and a stubborn resolve to overcome the many pitfalls and obstacles to obtaining professional results.

 

[GeorgeM]

Guys ( and girls...yes there are some cute females using PL )....

I want to apologize for my absence in posting for last days.

I've been extremely and abnormally busy at my dayjob last weeks.

As pointed out in the posts above, there is obviously a bug in the direct outputs of Picloc when trying to pilot them directly from your proportional radio inputs.
This has to do with the tenfold increase in servo resolution (0.1uS now !) but.. without the X10 multiplier being applied also to the radio inputs. Therefore proportional inputs are only moving 10% of the previous 100%.

Quick fix is to switch to slew for now, because this is an internally generated signal, and can swing to your servos's ATV limits set by the Servo-> ATVH and ATVL.
for directly stick piloted servo outputs from the input/servo matrix..there is no available fix other then using your full RX to get these servo signals, as pointed by MombasaFlash. <- Thanks for your posts in my absence.

A quick fix last night, by bumping up the radio's signals by 10 on all radio inputs including for the Spektrum did not produce good results.
So...
A major re-write is taking place right now, and current bugs are being taken care of.... including the DX6i mixup in incoming channel assignments.

Please bear with me for 1-2 days more and this will be a great firmware update as I make the code more efficient.
I will still probably produce two firmwares... one with normal D and I values, and another one with x3 bumped values for your testing and compatibility with your gimbals and servo reduction variables.

Stay tuned.

George.

 

[midiman007]

Thanks MombasaFlash and yes my new build will be an X8 or an Octo. Haven't completely decided but I'm leaning toward the X8.

 

[MombasaFlash]

Thanks MombasaFlash and yes my new build will be an X8 or an Octo. Haven't completely decided but I'm leaning toward the X8.

Whichever one you get you'll want the other. Both configurations have their own lists of attributes and failings.

For example, a flat eight will give you more lifting grunt than a push-pull, four boom X8, but the X8 should give you slightly better handling in the wind. An X8 will have a wider gap between booms which will allow for a bigger choice of prop size but if the prop gets too big the camera will start to see the lower front ones. The flat 8 does not have that problem but upward camera angle is restricted because there is ALWAYS a boom ready to come into frame. A flat 8 is an absolute pain (literally) to work on because you are forever leaning over booms and props to get to the central hub but it offers the highest degree of redundancy. Redundancy refers to the ability to stay airborne after the loss of a motor or propeller. A flat 8 barely even notices if one motor/prop fails.

Sorry, left the rails for a minute there. Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X

 

[MombasaFlash]

Guys ( and girls...yes there are some cute females using PL )....

I've been extremely and abnormally busy at my dayjob last weeks...

One has to assume that the "cute females" had PL problems necessitating Skype sessions.

Does your day job know you are a genius?

 

[Macsgrafs]

Thanks MombasaFlash and yes my new build will be an X8 or an Octo. Haven't completely decided but I'm leaning toward the X8.

You need to see Barts latest posting, it might help you decide!

Ross

 

[midiman007]

Which posting would that be ... I'm always looking for the best

 

[MombasaFlash]

You need to see Barts latest posting, it might help you decide!

Yep. I stuck with Octo's for the same reason.

The thread is HERE

 

[midiman007]

Wow, that's a definite +1 on the Octo side of the ledger. I'll keep that in mind. Swinging 14" props will make a larger frame. That was my only concern with the Octo. That video will make me re-consider whether the X8 is the right way to go.

On another note, I'm putting in the addon board and backlight for the Turnigy 9X from SmartieParts. I'm using the FrSky DJT telem TX and the FrSky D8RSP telem RX. Does anyone know whether you can connect the Jeti mini thru that telm link to the PL? It would be really cool if I could. I'm scared to connect it without knowing. I sure don't want to damage my PL.

Thanks to all of you for putting up with my idiotic questions, and giving me such great answers.

By the way, what is Slew and what the heck is a Slow Stick anyway. I keep seeing those words and don't have a clue what they mean.

Kenny

 

[Macsgrafs]

Kenny, you will find most of us on here would like to have 3 or 4 ships! Each has its positives & negatives. With an octo or any other MR aircraft, smaller props mean faster spinup & therefore faster response time! In other words it levels off quicker & responds to stick inputs faster, the downside is you need more thrust & lower flight times! i'm sure one of the experts on here will correct me if i'm wrong on this.

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

14" props on a flat 8 will make a considerably larger frame (and even more acute backache as you try to reach the centre to do stuff). My AD-8 HLE has 410mm booms (standard at the time I bought it) and the maximum prop size is 12". I would like at least a 13" prop option because, despite all the claims to the contrary about it being suitable for carrying a Canon 5D, I reckon it struggles a just a little bit.

Slew means the camera will stay in the last position it was commanded, even if the Tx stick has returned to its centre position. Proportional is where the camera attitude is always governed by the stick position. So, if you Tilt down with the Tx stick the camera will tilt down proportionate to the amount of stick input and when you let go of the stick and it returns to centre (if it is on a return spring) the camera will also return to centre. In slew mode the camera will tilt down by the same amount and will stay there until you command with a stick movement the opposite side of its centre position.

Slow Stick refers to the amount of authority the Tx stick has. If it has a large value the camera will move immediately and as quick as you move the stick. If you reduce the Stick Authority you will have to use more stick to get the camera to move. This is preferable to avoid the camera jerking around with tiny stick movements, although of course a balance has to be struck between smooth movement and frustratingly slow, late movement.

Dunno anyfink 'bout all that other techo stuff.

Now, as this is actually the Picloc 3X thread lets get back to that and if you have more general questions start a new thread.

Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X, Picloc 3X....

 

[graham_newton]

I am just wondering: If I want to use 2 servos on my tilt axis. How do I go about setting it up?
copy the settings (gain, acc, centre, etc) from the tilt servo to another servo output (say S4) and plug the second servo ?
thanks
Graham

 

[MombasaFlash]

Not really necessary to use another channel. Just split the existing output into two with a Y lead or similar.
You will have to use a servo reverser on the second servo as it will most likely be rotating in the opposite direction.

 

[graham_newton]

yeah I have thought of that, but surely there must be a way to do it on board picloc??

do you use picloc on your big gimbal? very impressive craft!

 

[MombasaFlash]

I have just installed a 3X pro on the big heli and at the same time upgraded the Tilt Axis to dual drive with a servo/belt drive on each side. I split the 3X tilt servo output to the two servos with a reverser on one.

I do not know whether the 3X would control two servos from separate outputs with the same settings. One would think perhaps yes. One servo would still have to rotate in the opposite direction. I am not sure whether checking the 'R' box under SERVOS for the second one will confuse PL. I guess it should work actually.

Go ahead. Find out and let us all know!

 

[graham_newton]

I will venture forth into uncharted territory!

 

[DKTek]

Using a load meter will help in the set up of duel servos.