Photohigher skyline rsgs

[nicwilke]

Ross,
I'm sorting out tilt and roll velocity gains. I'm not trying to do pirouettes. Tonight was more about getting vibration down on the XM-6, and that was successful. The YS-X6 IMU readings should be below 10/100, (green zone) and I was peaking at only 1, mostly showing 0.I'm trying my hardest to like the wooden Xoars 12x5's, but my configuration seems to favour the APC 12x3.8's. Tonight I dialed out some oscillations on the Xoars behaviour, and love them. I'll try to get some stable pans this weekend Ross, but I think pans need to be a little edited in post (no big deal). I am in 2 minds now as to what props to use.

 

[Macsgrafs]

Sorry Nic, my mistake...I thought you were showing us the RSGS on your unit working as it should be. Props can be a hard thing to chose...so far I've stuck with my 12x6 apc's, would love to try xoar but they are meggar bucks for my octo

 

[mounirz]

Thanks Ross I can see what you have done and I think I will follow this method for now, my apologies to mounirz who made the original post.

no problem Iceman
my pan servo is connected directly to the receiver i use channel 1 for pan and channel 2 for tilt. channel 2 goes to the RSGS for tilt. For channel 1 and 2 i have a three position switch dedicated to them where the user can increase the rate or decrease the rate of spin of the pan. mine are set to D/R (10% 10%) & EXP (+37% +37%) for mid speed and for slow smooth operation on the stick i use the lowest rate D/R (5% 5%) & EXP (+37% +37%).
by increasing the EXP you will see that the servo will not start and stop creating the unwanted movement. it worked for me hope it works for you too. (still im convinced it is a design error !! the ratio of the gears should be higher)
try it and let me know what you think........
i once read that PH was going to include a dead band option in the software to deal with such matters. i am not sure if they did it or not. all this is due to certain batches of Savox servos being different from the ones used by PH for their tests.
so the software works perfect for some people but not others.

 

[mounirz]

in a previous post i mentioned i had a problem with tilt and roll, they are correcting in a fast motion but the small ones that are affecting me, when doing small movements the servos are not reacting its like the rsgs waits for a certain deg of deviation and then it acts on it to correct. once it is correcting everything is ok and video is great but once the roll wants to change direction from one side to the other or is doing small corrections like in a hover the gimbal is generating some play in the footage if i can iron this down it would be perfect. you can check the video to see what i mean.
please note that everything is very well balanced, and the problem is on both roll and tilt
thanks

 

[tombrown1]

in a previous post i mentioned i had a problem with tilt and roll, they are correcting in a fast motion but the small ones that are affecting me, when doing small movements the servos are not reacting its like the rsgs waits for a certain deg of deviation and then it acts on it to correct. once it is correcting everything is ok and video is great but once the roll wants to change direction from one side to the other or is doing small corrections like in a hover the gimbal is generating some play in the footage if i can iron this down it would be perfect. you can check the video to see what i mean.
please note that everything is very well balanced, and the problem is on both roll and tilt
thanks

Try putting the main gains as high as possible before it vibrates. Also try turning all of the gains besides the mains to 0.

Make sure your gimbal moves smoothly and that nothing is rubbing or causing any kind of hang up.

Good luck.

TB

 

[tombrown1]

Smooth pan for AV200

Ice man and others......the only mod i have had to do was the pan. I too found it a bit jerky when manualy controled to acheive a smooth slow pan.....particularily with the camera i use zoomed to anything over 150 mm.
Solution.....replace the pan servo with the same as the tilt servo. I did try another servo that i thought might be suitable but it created lots of other issues with the rsgs stability.
I dont fully understand why but using other types and brands of servos dont work as well as the original Savox it came with. I can only asume its to do with frequencies and such that the rsgs was designed for.
With the tilt Savox servo fitted to the pan i can acheive smooth pan rates right down to 1 deg/second at up to 220mm zoom and the pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect with the right gain settings.
I have reverted to the 1.2.2 as for me it gives an overall better result with my set up and the way i use it. 1.7B did work well and better in some ways but had other issues that effect different setups differently and i will wait till those are solved before i go back to it. Please keep in mind my rig is fitted to a R44 helicopter which has masses more shake and wobble than what most if not all of you guys would be getting with your aircraft.

Another point that hasnt received a lot of attention that could be causing greif for some of you as it gave me huge problems at first...."VIBRATION".
Any and i meam ANY... vibration getting thru to the rsgs is going to cause you major stability problems.....not just for RSGS but any camera with a rolling shutter will be effected to some extent. I even had to make a sorbathane isolator mount to go between the camera tray and camera as the high frquency hum of the tilt servo was disturbing my video. I dont know how you guys balance all your rotating bits but get it as good as possible and it may fix some of your issues. Vibration whether 25000 hz or 25 hz is the biggest killer of electronically stabilised video platforms....except for crashing.

While on the servos.....for interest.....i didnt have one of the dummy resistor plugs when i fitted the new servo so i simply set the old trim pot in the middle with a multimeter and it is still there today... works perfectly.....just thought id mention that as there was some speculation that the tolerence of resistors was causing problems....i doubt it very much...but i could be wrong. I cant see the resistance value changing that much in the milliseconds it takes for the rsgs to reference the value

Please elaborate on the sorbathane isolator mount.


Thanks,

Tom

 

[mounirz]

Try putting the main gains as high as possible before it vibrates. Also try turning all of the gains besides the mains to 0.

Make sure your gimbal moves smoothly and that nothing is rubbing or causing any kind of hang up.

Good luck.

TB

thanks for the reply.
when i remove the gear for roll and move it by hand it moves very smoothly and nothing is rubbing or anything. mechanically everything is ok and balanced pretty well.
this test has the main gain close to 280 just before it starts oscillating and the rest are 0. and still i have this problem. im out of ideas .....

 

[Macsgrafs]

thanks for the reply.
when i remove the gear for roll and move it by hand it moves very smoothly and nothing is rubbing or anything. mechanically everything is ok and balanced pretty well.
this test has the main gain close to 280 just before it starts oscillating and the rest are 0. and still i have this problem. im out of ideas .....

Contact photohigher, I hear they are great with after sales support

 

[tombrown1]

What gimbal are you using?

 

[mounirz]

Contact photohigher, I hear they are great with after sales support

no more mails alas...... i think im going to pack my bag and pay PH a visit in person with the gimbal ........

 

[mounirz]

What gimbal are you using?

av 200 with skyline rsgs running 1.7b
everything is balanced. main gain for roll close to 280 tilt close to 300 just before jittering. nothing is binding mechanically. it just looks like it takes a bit of time before it starts correcting as u can see in the video......
thanks for asking

 

[vip]

no more mails alas...... i think im going to pack my bag and pay PH a visit in person with the gimbal ........

Geez, I was so excited when I saw them appear ( thought they were finally getting it) , then gone again.. I am sure everyone's patience is running thin.
I cannot imagine spending money developing DD gimbals knowing the customer base is all ready to jump ship, and drooling for the opportunity to do so.
Guess we all run our business our own way.. Mine works better than the WKM gimbal control but that is about all. The way the new products are coming
the pain will be over soon..:black_eyed:

 

[tombrown1]

av 200 with skyline rsgs running 1.7b
everything is balanced. main gain for roll close to 280 tilt close to 300 just before jittering. nothing is binding mechanically. it just looks like it takes a bit of time before it starts correcting as u can see in the video......
thanks for asking

Make sure all belts and gears are tight with no slop. The next step would be trying different servos. I put a Freefly servo on my av130 pan and it made a huge difference. It went from unusable to silky smooth instantly.

 

[Helifish]

Sorbathane

Just google sorbathane for product info

Basicaly it is a polomer that comes in different densities called Duros.....30 an 50 duros the ones you want....lower number softer. It has the ability to danpen and absorb vibration many times more than rubbers and poly eurothanes
ebay has it in sheets or moulded into washers and gromets like pics below
View attachment 9336View attachment 9337

 

[Helifish]

av 200 with skyline rsgs running 1.7b
everything is balanced. main gain for roll close to 280 tilt close to 300 just before jittering. nothing is binding mechanically. it just looks like it takes a bit of time before it starts correcting as u can see in the video......
thanks for asking

Make sure you are saving the settings every time you adjust each one....before adjusting another.....one of the glitches i found on 1.7 and it would revert to firmware base settings which is what yours looks like if you made a few changes before saving.

 

[tombrown1]

Sorbathane

Just google sorbathane for product info

Basicaly it is a polomer that comes in different densities called Duros.....30 an 50 duros the ones you want....lower number softer. It has the ability to danpen and absorb vibration many times more than rubbers and poly eurothanes
ebay has it in sheets or moulded into washers and gromets like pics below
View attachment 12049View attachment 12050

Interesting. Thanks Heli. So you basically made a new camera plate and put it on top of the original gimbal plate, but separated by sorbathane. It looks like you are still using the center screw to affix the camera? The vibes don't transmit through that screw?

i was thinking of doing a version of this:

http://www.kopterworx.com/Camera-Mounts/Antivib-adapter-for-AV200/1-V2


for my av130. The hard part seems to be affixing the camera.

Sorry for the hijacking!


best,

Tom

 

[Helifish]

Interesting. Thanks Heli. So you basically made a new camera plate and put it on top of the original gimbal plate, but separated by sorbathane. It looks like you are still using the center screw to affix the camera? The vibes don't transmit through that screw?

i was thinking of doing a version of this:

http://www.kopterworx.com/Camera-Mounts/Antivib-adapter-for-AV200/1-V2


for my av130. The hard part seems to be affixing the camera.

Sorry for the hijacking!


best,

Tom

Same idea Tom...anything to isolate vibration will help....particularily with go pro.

Mine is simply 2 aluminium plates seperated with sorbathane bushs, Bottom plate is tapped in 4 places and screws thru av200 camera tray into plate. Also has large hole in bottom plate so you can get 1/4 screw thru into top plate into camera. Mount camera first then attach to camera tray. it does raise the camera around 10mm so tray rebalance and centre alignment is neccessary

 

[zasadek]

thanks for the reply.
when i remove the gear for roll and move it by hand it moves very smoothly and nothing is rubbing or anything. mechanically everything is ok and balanced pretty well.
this test has the main gain close to 280 just before it starts oscillating and the rest are 0. and still i have this problem. im out of ideas .....

I have same problem as You. Notice that if you use non zero an integral gain, the response will be much better, but it will cause overshooting problems.

 

[iceman]

Smooth pan for AV200

Ice man and others......the only mod i have had to do was the pan. I too found it a bit jerky when manualy controled to acheive a smooth slow pan.....particularily with the camera i use zoomed to anything over 150 mm.
Solution.....replace the pan servo with the same as the tilt servo. I did try another servo that i thought might be suitable but it created lots of other issues with the rsgs stability.
I dont fully understand why but using other types and brands of servos dont work as well as the original Savox it came with. I can only asume its to do with frequencies and such that the rsgs was designed for.
With the tilt Savox servo fitted to the pan i can acheive smooth pan rates right down to 1 deg/second at up to 220mm zoom and the pan stabilisation is absolutely perfect with the right gain settings.
I have reverted to the 1.2.2 as for me it gives an overall better result with my set up and the way i use it. 1.7B did work well and better in some ways but had other issues that effect different setups differently and i will wait till those are solved before i go back to it. Please keep in mind my rig is fitted to a R44 helicopter which has masses more shake and wobble than what most if not all of you guys would be getting with your aircraft.

Another point that hasnt received a lot of attention that could be causing greif for some of you as it gave me huge problems at first...."VIBRATION".
Any and i meam ANY... vibration getting thru to the rsgs is going to cause you major stability problems.....not just for RSGS but any camera with a rolling shutter will be effected to some extent. I even had to make a sorbathane isolator mount to go between the camera tray and camera as the high frquency hum of the tilt servo was disturbing my video. I dont know how you guys balance all your rotating bits but get it as good as possible and it may fix some of your issues. Vibration whether 25000 hz or 25 hz is the biggest killer of electronically stabilised video platforms....except for crashing.

While on the servos.....for interest.....i didnt have one of the dummy resistor plugs when i fitted the new servo so i simply set the old trim pot in the middle with a multimeter and it is still there today... works perfectly.....just thought id mention that as there was some speculation that the tolerence of resistors was causing problems....i doubt it very much...but i could be wrong. I cant see the resistance value changing that much in the milliseconds it takes for the rsgs to reference the value

Tom, did you add the resistors to pot as with the tilt and roll servos?

 

[Droider]

AWSOME!

Just uploaded 1.6 and WHAT a difference..

Yes horizon is a tad out of level but check out the angle the copter was in, a full HARD right diving turn.. something you would never be doing while filming.

Copter DroidWorx SkyJib Lite X4

Build thread here

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?7018-Droiderbuilt-SkyJib-Lite-4x