Photohigher skyline rsgs

[DennyR]

Actually I think that the problem will not be solved by tinkering about with the firmware. Maybe one of you guys out there is a sufficiently expert electronics guru to come up with a board to interface with the Skyine that solves the power supply issues, gets rid of the knitting lesson that currently is described as a "loom" or "harness", decouples the AC on the control inputs etc. This might be an interim solution until PH come up with a new board.

If we do that then we need to redesign the whole thing.....If I were Mr. Kimberly Attwood I would not want to put my name to this POS. Clearly this company has no idea what they are doing, like a few others out there. The new models in the pipeline are also lacking in any design expertise. They clearly need to get somebody in to design the stuff for them who understands the electronics and the balance/vibration concept. This is pushing **** uphill with a wooden stick.

 

[jes1111]

The PH system is different from normal stabilisation (like when you connect a servo directly to the FC output) - the RSGS mimics a potentiometer - so it is feeding an analogue voltage to the servo as if it was the feedback pot. So the usual considerations of setting mid points, end points, etc. is all different.

 

[MultiHexa]

After 6 hours I give up now. The version 1.1.6 is for the trash can. Since running the 1.1.3 still a lot better. Man Photohiger I'm so looking forward to the update and now it's even worse than the 1.1.3 version. New firmware is not working = full jitter! Sorry, but that's the truth. Makes a new version soon, otherwise purchase all of the Z15 Wookong.

 

[darkovujasinovic]

With 1.3 at least I had roll stabilization working and with the new 1.6 it is complete disaster !
This 1.6 version is an insult to all those who purchased this RSGS and were waiting for the fix !
Are you guys from PH blind, are you making fouls of us ? Cant you see that it does not work ?

 

[DennyR]

The PH system is different from normal stabilisation (like when you connect a servo directly to the FC output) - the RSGS mimics a potentiometer - so it is feeding an analogue voltage to the servo as if it was the feedback pot. So the usual considerations of setting mid points, end points, etc. is all different.

Surely all it needs to do is modify the resistance to span the desired movement.

 

[ATFlyer]

Come on Photohigher, stop taking us for fools.
I guess we shouldn't be expecting much from you & your Skyline if you were proud enough of your improvements to post that unstable amateur video last week. Your customers have higher standards than that.
This firmware is a backwards step - turning the gains down to stop the jitter to the point where little correction is made is no fix!

I'm sure I speak for others on this thread when I say that we were expecting better. Your claims led us to believe that previously unobtainable stability was possible but in fact it falls short of the devices already proven.
We have wasted money buying the Skyline, have wasted many hours trying to get it to perform and I'm sure many have suffered a commercial loss too.

We now need a REAL solution to this problem.

 

[andrewgcriag]

mine is now listed in the "for sale" section along with the AV200--this is the best solution to date.....

Zenmuse here I come.

 

[ATFlyer]

Trouble is everyone now knows they're not worth the postage!!!
Mr Picloc, Mr DJI etc should do well out of all this thanks to PH. Wish I'd got a cinestar. Or a Zen that would carry a 5D!

 

[cs8]

After one successful flight my Skyline died again. My story with RSGS is finished.

Now I would like to put it back on MK stabilization. Tilt is doing ok, but I can't set my roll back. I have a problem with potentiometer. It doesn't really respond. Any solutions?

 

[flytahiti]

could we use the new software with the old 1.1.3 firmware ?

 

[andrewgcriag]

I sent an email to PH asking for a return/refund on the AV200 and Skyline, this should be interesting--I'll let you all know what the answer is if I get one.

 

[jes1111]

Surely all it needs to do is modify the resistance to span the desired movement.

Exactly I was just pointing that out for an earlier poster who was wondering why the setup procedure was different.

But it is interesting to realise how this system works. The board has complete control over the servo: it calculates the required target position (mixing in the operator's stick movement if necessary) then, instead of sending a PWM position signal, it pretends to be the potentiometer and varies the voltage being fed back to the servo to cause it to move to the desired position. In principal, a very clever idea since it skips right over one the problems of using hobby servos - the generation of feedback appropriate to the secondary gearing employed. But one would have to say that, given the servo need NEVER move unless the board wants it to, the fact that users are reporting wild unwanted movements indicates that something is VERY wrong within the firmware. And, even worse, if the servo is jittering - well, it's the feedback mechanism in a normal setup that's responsible for jitter. The only way a servo can jitter in this RSGS scheme is if the board is sending an unstable feedback voltage - kinda dumb when you think about it.

Also can't understand the fuss about interference - haven't they heard of capacitors? This is a dead standard solution - just like the capacitor on the power input of an ESC - to smooth "dirty" voltage coming in, just put a capacitor across the power/ground lines (and twist the wires, too)!

 

[RancherPete]

I sent an email to PH asking for a return/refund on the AV200 and Skyline, this should be interesting--I'll let you all know what the answer is if I get one.

123

 

[tppeng]

Just ran some tests with 1.1.6 on AV200. Stock Savox with 72T gear on Roll and Stock Savox on Tilt. I also made the loom modification according to PH's instruction.

My servos and RSGS are both fed with a 6.2v from CCBEC 10A.

Improvements found on the software:
I. It looks better now and monitor does work to tell you what angle (or some sensor value) that your RSGS is sitting at.
II. The auto tune will scan through ±60’ on tilt and ±25’ on roll and set to what it think the center is at.

Problem exists:
I. Tilt tray will move off center when initialized, you need to use Tx to tilt it back to level (compensation works at all angle regardless), and I did followed every single step to set level.
II. Tilt and Roll still jitters a lot resulting unusable footage. I literally went from 1 to 200 on both Tilt and Roll gains and jitter still exists.

Comment for this FW update:

Software is easier to use and some confusing functions from previous software version are taken off. Stabilization works very well if not better than the previous firmware, pretty much perfect horizon when gains are set to T:114 R:95 on AV200; however, one of my AV200 is suffering jitter problem thus I would say they have not found the solution to what most of us are experiencing. The other AV200 performs better than in 1.1.3 though minor jitter on tilt still exists (but compensated by the all mighty PJ710V B.O.S.S.).

We are still no where near what a Z15 is providing. But provided we can haul much bigger camera than that puny Z15 I would say I will keep waiting for the solution. In the mean time, I'm having very good results from the new FW on WKM, and am currently waiting to order the HoverflyGimbal board to test.

Keep up with your work. I can definitely see the improvements on this firmware, but what we really want first is the solution to jitter. Also, please post some videos detailing how the setup and tuning process should be, so we can make sure all these problems wasn't cause by us doing anything wrong. Also, some RAW footage of you flying this new firmware with AV200 would be great since it has different layout and mounting than AV130.


Andi

(*EDIT: Rolling action on Rudder movements are not fixed *)

 

[nicwilke]

Just ran some tests with 1.1.6 on AV200. Stock Savox with 72T gear on Roll and Stock Savox on Tilt. I also made the loom modification according to PH's instruction.

My servos and RSGS are both fed with a 6.2v from CCBEC 10A.

Improvements found on the software:
I. It looks better now and monitor does work to tell you what angle (or some sensor value) that your RSGS is sitting at.
II. The auto tune will scan through ±60’ on tilt and ±25’ on roll and set to what it think the center is at.

Problem exists:
I. Tilt tray will move off center when initialized, you need to use Tx to tilt it back to level (compensation works at all angle regardless), and I did followed every single step to set level.
II. Tilt and Roll still jitters a lot resulting unusable footage. I literally went from 1 to 200 on both Tilt and Roll gains and jitter still exists.

Comment for this FW update:

Software is easier to use and some confusing functions from previous software version are taken off. Stabilization works very well if not better than the previous firmware, pretty much perfect horizon when gains are set to T:114 R:95 on AV200; however, one of my AV200 is suffering jitter problem thus I would say they have not found the solution to what most of us are experiencing. The other AV200 performs better than in 1.1.3 though minor jitter on tilt still exists (but compensated by the all mighty PJ710V B.O.S.S.).

We are still no where near what a Z15 is providing. But provided we can haul much bigger camera than that puny Z15 I would say I will keep waiting for the solution. In the mean time, I'm having very good results from the new FW on WKM, and am currently waiting to order the HoverflyGimbal board to test.

Keep up with your work. I can definitely see the improvements on this firmware, but what we really want first is the solution to jitter. Also, please post some videos detailing how the setup and tuning process should be, so we can make sure all these problems wasn't cause by us doing anything wrong. Also, some RAW footage of you flying this new firmware with AV200 would be great since it has different layout and mounting than AV130.


Andi

(*EDIT: Rolling action on Rudder movements are not fixed *)

Lets support PH, not bag them, well done Andi for the feedback.

Has anyone considered removing power cable from the Rx to the RSGS servo lead? Perhaps the additional power from the Rx's voltage is providing the anomalies.

 

[tppeng]

Lets support PH, not bag them, well done Andi for the feedback.

Has anyone considered removing power cable from the Rx to the RSGS servo lead? Perhaps the additional power from the Rx's voltage is providing the anomalies.

Thanks, I myself find bagging anyone is the least productive action. If you want refund go ahead and do whatever you need to do. In my opinion Photohigher could have just keep testing till things becomes perfect then release it, but anybody went through R&D with limited budget knows that's impossible. Yes, it is less honorable to sell some products that doesn't meet minimal expectation, yet, I'm one that glad at least we have something we can test with (with fairly reasonable pricing compare to competitors), or help testing, and this RSGS is indeed having some very fresh idea of driving a gimbal, there's no "examples" you can borrow to create this hence a more frustrating process.

Now, that does raise a big question mark as to how Photohigher get it's testing footage? If all they use is stock AV130/200 with oldest RSGS FW then what have we done wrong to not being able to get the same result? That's where I'd expect Photohigher to give some explanations at.

To your question, I did use a Y-harness to parallel my power to RSGS, in another word, CCBEC goes to RSGS and Rx individually. So no that's not going to solve the jitters.

 

[Mactadpole]

Just saw this vid that doesn't look too bad. See the comments on Vimeo for details. Actually flight starts ~1:00min into video.

 

[DennyR]

Exactly I was just pointing that out for an earlier poster who was wondering why the setup procedure was different.

But it is interesting to realise how this system works. The board has complete control over the servo: it calculates the required target position (mixing in the operator's stick movement if necessary) then, instead of sending a PWM position signal, it pretends to be the potentiometer and varies the voltage being fed back to the servo to cause it to move to the desired position. In principal, a very clever idea since it skips right over one the problems of using hobby servos - the generation of feedback appropriate to the secondary gearing employed. But one would have to say that, given the servo need NEVER move unless the board wants it to, the fact that users are reporting wild unwanted movements indicates that something is VERY wrong within the firmware. And, even worse, if the servo is jittering - well, it's the feedback mechanism in a normal setup that's responsible for jitter. The only way a servo can jitter in this RSGS scheme is if the board is sending an unstable feedback voltage - kinda dumb when you think about it.

Also can't understand the fuss about interference - haven't they heard of capacitors? This is a dead standard solution - just like the capacitor on the power input of an ESC - to smooth "dirty" voltage coming in, just put a capacitor across the power/ground lines (and twist the wires, too)!

I think the problem is with the accelerometer gain being too high. The voltage issue is all done within the servo board, which works ok in normal pwm mode. You could add some caps. to the motor terminals

This idea is not new as Geo Mamo will no doubt confirm, I had a mechanical gyro system working perfectly that used the same principle of modifying the pot resistance, only with magnetic encoders. That was 4 years ago. It's only problem was weight, power consumption and size but it worked like a Zen.

 

[Titusx]

I am using a linear BEC and I am only has jitter on tilt when the gain is over 100%. I am testing it with a Canon 5D, but not on a PH gimbal.
Linear BECs do not generate noise.

 

[DennyR]

Just saw this vid that doesn't look too bad. See the comments on Vimeo for details. Actually flight starts ~1:00min into video.

Why do people still do this. Who wants to sit there and watch the ground waiting for the eventual lift off when it is so easy to edit that part out.

It is till jumping about and not acceptable anyway. I thought that Tabb had an imu for his gimbal that was working OK? The Cinestar gimbal is light years better than the PH so it should be a lot better than this.