Need some help selecting a propeller and need to know where to get them...

[helloman1976]

I haven't tried them, but I like the design. It looks like they are made from one sheet of carbon fiber to form a uniform blade vs. two carbon fiber blades attached to a fragile hub. I think the ones in the post are knock offs of t-motors's brand. I want to try t-motors props, but they are extremely expensive.

You're probably right and the T-motors as well as the props are extremely expensive but as someone said, "We don't build them to crash, we build them to fly..." The problem with Graupner props is that they are plastic and they break easy when they hit something and wooden props are the same way. Carbon fiber props will hold up to all kinds of damage but again it all depends on the quality of the prop. The cheaper carbon fiber props are cheaply made, they have bubbles and those are weak points and so on. I fly to fly and I record when I fly, you're looking into to high quality AP so you're going to need to get high quality stuff. I personally don't care about jello in my shots or vibrations although I do try to cut those things down as much as possible.

I ended up buying these, because they look like a direct Graupner rip-off and they're made of carbon fiber. http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=792&productname=

I'll keep you posted once I get them and everything built as to whether or not they are quiet. I'm hoping they are because you can hear everything when you fly and it gets annoying. My old APC props were ok but they were not quiet at all. The new props are 11x5 carbon fiber Graupner rip-offs and the old ones where APC 10x5 Hobbyking APC rip-offs so I guess I'll find out!

Check this out, I found a YouTube video of a the RcTimer slowfly props in carbon fiber. They seem pretty strong and also very quiet. You can get an idea of that from the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKZ8K7Vn_oU

Here's a follow-up video to that. These are the same Rctimer carbon fiber props and this guy broke one in a crash, note where the prop broke, right at the hub where the weakpoint is...this is common with slowfly props. Also take note of how strong the actual blade portion is and how much force it takes him to snap it. This is why I like the Graupner design where the hub connection is the strongest point and again I've had slowfly props self destruct in flight under heavy load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa4-DssUTSg

 

[Dezy]

Thanks for the prop and motor recomendation. Since other people, besides myself, will be depending upon my copter's reliability, I'd rather spend a little extra upfront.

Those RCtimer props you found are certainly a good price! Maybe I'll get those for my first set on the Y6 - since I'm still basically a rookie. I've been practicing for a couple months with a small quad micro-copter - very addicting!

 

[helloman1976]

Thanks for the prop and motor recomendation. Since other people, besides myself, will be depending upon my copter's reliability, I'd rather spend a little extra upfront.

Those RCtimer props you found are certainly a good price! Maybe I'll get those for my first set on the Y6 - since I'm still basically a rookie. I've been practicing for a couple months with a small quad micro-copter - very addicting!

That's funny because I've been looking for a micro-MR. I want one small enough I can fly around the house but big enough to carry a micro camera and micro FPV equipment. What micro-MR are you flying? Would you recommend it?

 

[Dezy]

It's the Lil' Daganflyer http://www.amazon.com/Draganflyer-Q...qid=1365980802&sr=8-4&keywords=draganflyer+x4

Its not big enough to carry anything, but its a great trainer.

They give you this one when you order the 20k 8 (not that I did!).

 

[helloman1976]

For anyone looking for the 12" carbon fiber Graupner style props I finally found some and here they are...they are 12x6 though so be careful that you can spin that large of a prop with such a deep pitch. If anyone has ordered from this company or these props let me know what you think of either or both

http://www.himodel.com/plane/12x6_Carbon_Fiber_Propeller_Set_CW_CCW.html

 

[Dewster]

For anyone looking for the 12" carbon fiber Graupner style props I finally found some and here they are...they are 12x6 though so be careful that you can spin that large of a prop with such a deep pitch. If anyone has ordered from this company or these props let me know what you think of either or both

http://www.himodel.com/plane/12x6_Carbon_Fiber_Propeller_Set_CW_CCW.html

i changed my bottom props on my Y6 to Graupner 12x6. I had 11x5 on top and bottom motors, but my craft would slowly lose altitude and I would have to go a notch or two above the halfway mark on throttle. Also having the same props top and bottom would make for faster descents. Having 12x6 on the bottom motors helped to counter the already disturbed air. It's less strain on the motor/ESC because its not cutting into clean/undisturbed air. My y6 is floaty, predictable, and can handle windy days.

 

[helloman1976]

i changed my bottom props on my Y6 to Graupner 12x6. I had 11x5 on top and bottom motors, but my craft would slowly lose altitude and I would have to go a notch or two above the halfway mark on throttle. Also having the same props top and bottom would make for faster descents. Having 12x6 on the bottom motors helped to counter the already disturbed air. It's less strain on the motor/ESC because its not cutting into clean/undisturbed air. My y6 is floaty, predictable, and can handle windy days.

Good information thanks. I wasn't sure how I was going to approach it. I may do the same thing, the only thing that bothers me is that it looks weird. Have you considered just going to 12x6 on top and bottom? That's what I was thinking about doing but I'm going to give it a shot with theses 11x5's first to see what kind of flight performance I have to start with. I may end up doing what you did Thanks for the info!

 

[Dewster]

Good information thanks. I wasn't sure how I was going to approach it. I may do the same thing, the only thing that bothers me is that it looks weird. Have you considered just going to 12x6 on top and bottom? That's what I was thinking about doing but I'm going to give it a shot with theses 11x5's first to see what kind of flight performance I have to start with. I may end up doing what you did Thanks for the info!

I thought it would look weird too, but I wanted my craft to fly. Its only a half inch longer n both ends so it doesn't stick out that much. If I didn't tell anyone that the props were different sizes they wouldn't notice.

 

[helloman1976]

I thought it would look weird too, but I wanted my craft to fly. Its only a half inch longer n both ends so it doesn't stick out that much. If I didn't tell anyone that the props were different sizes they wouldn't notice.

Interesting, yeah I guess you're right. Glad you were able to work around the loss of efficiency. So it was noticeably different after you went to 12" on the bottom? I guess the slightly deeper pitch on the bottom probably helps too. Did it increase your flight times? What about flight characteristics, such as aerobatics and the like?

 

[Dewster]

Interesting, yeah I guess you're right. Glad you were able to work around the loss of efficiency. So it was noticeably different after you went to 12" on the bottom? I guess the slightly deeper pitch on the bottom probably helps too. Did it increase your flight times? What about flight characteristics, such as aerobatics and the like?

I get 6-6.5 minute flight time using 2814/11s Avroto motors with two 6000 3s lipos in parallel. I test flew it again and the control is more stable than it was before I added the 12s for the bottom props. The craft is floaty. I don't do acrobatics. It's my camera ship so I'm trying to keep it in one piece. I did do some maneuvers Circling, panning shots, climb outs, descents, pirouettes etc. Nothing fancy. The control is smooth. There's no guess work. It flies where I put it. At altitude the Graupners are very quiet.

 

[helloman1976]

Dewster, very good info thanks. I'm glad you put what motor you are using too. I'm going to eventually upgrade from these Turnigy NTM 750Kv motors. They are excellent motors for the money they just have horrible bearings so it's somewhat hit and miss on them. I keep the husks of the dead ones I break and use them as spare parts Avroto is very expensive however Sunnysky seems to make a very high quality motor, very similar, at half the price. I may end up getting these, any experience with them?

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/sunnysky-221612-kv800-motor-p-383.html

Got any pictures of your rig? Seems like 6 minutes is an awefully short flight time for 12Ah as 3S. I'd get 20 minutes with that easy. I was getting 12-14 minutes depending on how I fly. I don't use a gimble or anything. Curious what your craft looks like to see what makes it so heavy. You must have a Canon T4 on there or something lol

 

[Dewster]

View attachment 11354

I haven't tried Sunnsky motors. The Avroto motors were expensive. I read good things about them so I shelled out the cash. That was before competition started turning up the heat. The motors are also pretty heavy.

My craft weighs just shy of 7 pounds. The batteries make up a good portion of the weight. I would probably get more flight time with lighter batteries. I have to find the right power to weight ratio. At some point the powerful batteries will decrease the flight time due to the extra weight. Max flight time achieved was 9 plus minutes. I have no clue how I achieve that. I guess the temperature was just right. I get 6.5 minutes on average before the 1st level battery warning kicks in.

After a flight I typically have 11.6 left on the batteries. (anyone know if I should push it further??)

I built this to carry a Sony Nex 5n. After a prop induced crash on my flat Hexa I decided to go with a Y6. Hoping for redundancy in the event of a prop, ESC, or the never heard of motor failure. I don't want another falling from the sky moment.

The Sony Action cam does a good job with image stabilization with smooth flight controls. The camera even steadies slight roll.

 

[PeterLester]

Can one replace the Turnigy NTM bearings with really good quality ones? If so, what should I be looking for?

Dewster, very good info thanks. I'm glad you put what motor you are using too. I'm going to eventually upgrade from these Turnigy NTM 750Kv motors. They are excellent motors for the money they just have horrible bearings so it's somewhat hit and miss on them. I keep the husks of the dead ones I break and use them as spare parts Avroto is very expensive however Sunnysky seems to make a very high quality motor, very similar, at half the price. I may end up getting these, any experience with them?

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/sunnysky-221612-kv800-motor-p-383.html

Got any pictures of your rig? Seems like 6 minutes is an awefully short flight time for 12Ah as 3S. I'd get 20 minutes with that easy. I was getting 12-14 minutes depending on how I fly. I don't use a gimble or anything. Curious what your craft looks like to see what makes it so heavy. You must have a Canon T4 on there or something lol

 

[helloman1976]

View attachment 14451

I haven't tried Sunnsky motors. The Avroto motors were expensive. I read good things about them so I shelled out the cash. That was before competition started turning up the heat. The motors are also pretty heavy.

My craft weighs just shy of 7 pounds. The batteries make up a good portion of the weight. I would probably get more flight time with lighter batteries. I have to find the right power to weight ratio. At some point the powerful batteries will decrease the flight time due to the extra weight. Max flight time achieved was 9 plus minutes. I have no clue how I achieve that. I guess the temperature was just right. I get 6.5 minutes on average before the 1st level battery warning kicks in.

After a flight I typically have 11.6 left on the batteries. (anyone know if I should push it further??)

I built this to carry a Sony Nex 5n. After a prop induced crash on my flat Hexa I decided to go with a Y6. Hoping for redundancy in the event of a prop, ESC, or the never heard of motor failure. I don't want another falling from the sky moment.

The Sony Action cam does a good job with image stabilization with smooth flight controls. The camera even steadies slight roll.

The Y6 is redundant but ONLY if the remaining motor is powerful enough to carry the load. You have a flying battle tank there, a good test would be to unplug one of those motors and see if it'll even lift off the ground at all and that will give you your answer. Make sure it doesn't just tip over or you'll lose some props and maybe some motors so be careful.

With all that weight I'm shocked you are flying with 3S and not 4S, you must be putting a huge strain on those ESCs and motors and that's not good for either. I'd highly recommend these below, they are the absolute best battery for the money. Try to find a battery with a better capacity to weight ratio not to mention they will put out 100A each and I use these exclusively and they work as said. I charge them at 5C and I can charge 2 of them in parallel in balance mode in about 26-35 minutes at 20A. I push them down to about 3.5V per cell but not below that as Lipos will fade fast after that. With your 3S setup I would go down to 11V but no more, 3S is not as efficient as 4S so be careful as you are pulling far more AMPs on a 3S battery than you would be a 4S battery so they won't take it as well.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=21361

 

[helloman1976]

Can one replace the Turnigy NTM bearings with really good quality ones? If so, what should I be looking for?

Peter, yes you can however I don't know their size yet but when I determine what size they are I'll probably buy them here. Next time one of them fails I'm going to pull the bearings out and measure them with my calipers. The NTM motors either come perfectly fine and last forever, until you crash them, or they come with a bad bearing or set of bearings. The trick is to keep the old ones and pull the good bearings out and use those to replace the new motors bad bearings. Keep a graveyard of parts, you'll be surprise how often you go in there and cannibalize things

http://www.rcbearings.com/

 

[Stacky]

Dewster, just over 3kg for what you have and flight time sounds about right. With respect to power to weight ration just make sure you hover at about 50% throttle and you will be fine.

What voltage per cell do you have your alarm set at?. The voltage at rest isnt a good indicator of how low you can go with respect to the length of a flight as all batteries will vary on that. My alarms are set to go off at 3.5v per cell. The better way is to try and check what current you have drawn from your batttery after flights. Check how many amps your charger is putting back in to your batteries once fully charged. You want to be landing with at least 20% charge remaining so if you have a 5000mah battery the most your charger should be having to put back in to your battery would be 4000mah. You can get the Quanum telemetry from HK for a reasonable price and the right sensor lets you know the current drawn while flying.

You will find older batteries will give you shorter flight times.

View attachment 14451

I haven't tried Sunnsky motors. The Avroto motors were expensive. I read good things about them so I shelled out the cash. That was before competition started turning up the heat. The motors are also pretty heavy.

My craft weighs just shy of 7 pounds. The batteries make up a good portion of the weight. I would probably get more flight time with lighter batteries. I have to find the right power to weight ratio. At some point the powerful batteries will decrease the flight time due to the extra weight. Max flight time achieved was 9 plus minutes. I have no clue how I achieve that. I guess the temperature was just right. I get 6.5 minutes on average before the 1st level battery warning kicks in.

After a flight I typically have 11.6 left on the batteries. (anyone know if I should push it further??)

I built this to carry a Sony Nex 5n. After a prop induced crash on my flat Hexa I decided to go with a Y6. Hoping for redundancy in the event of a prop, ESC, or the never heard of motor failure. I don't want another falling from the sky moment.

The Sony Action cam does a good job with image stabilization with smooth flight controls. The camera even steadies slight roll.

 

[Dewster]

The Y6 is redundant but ONLY if the remaining motor is powerful enough to carry the load. You have a flying battle tank there, a good test would be to unplug one of those motors and see if it'll even lift off the ground at all and that will give you your answer. Make sure it doesn't just tip over or you'll lose some props and maybe some motors so be careful.

With all that weight I'm shocked you are flying with 3S and not 4S, you must be putting a huge strain on those ESCs and motors and that's not good for either. I'd highly recommend these below, they are the absolute best battery for the money. Try to find a battery with a better capacity to weight ratio not to mention they will put out 100A each and I use these exclusively and they work as said. I charge them at 5C and I can charge 2 of them in parallel in balance mode in about 26-35 minutes at 20A. I push them down to about 3.5V per cell but not below that as Lipos will fade fast after that. With your 3S setup I would go down to 11V but no more, 3S is not as efficient as 4S so be careful as you are pulling far more AMPs on a 3S battery than you would be a 4S battery so they won't take it as well.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=21361

The Y6 is only redundant if its light enough. My craft is pretty heavy. I flew yesterday and got 6.5 to 7 minutes of flight on my batteries before the first level protection came on. My motors are cool to the touch and the DJI ESC are barely warm at all. It's certainly not a scientific method of determining if I'm straining the ESCs, but even hard flying hasn't made the ESCs warm enough to cause concern.

I ordered an OSD that will tell me the status of my flight battery.


With the 12 inch props on the bottom I have increased flight time and my throttle position at hover is exactly at 50%. Just a hair below and it starts to descend and a hair above will cause my craft to climb. It's extremely stable and feels as floaty as my flat Hexa.

 

[helloman1976]

The Y6 is only redundant if its light enough. My craft is pretty heavy. I flew yesterday and got 6.5 to 7 minutes of flight on my batteries before the first level protection came on. My motors are cool to the touch and the DJI ESC are barely warm at all. It's certainly not a scientific method of determining if I'm straining the ESCs, but even hard flying hasn't made the ESCs warm enough to cause concern.

I ordered an OSD that will tell me the status of my flight battery.


With the 12 inch props on the bottom I have increased flight time and my throttle position at hover is exactly at 50%. Just a hair below and it starts to descend and a hair above will cause my craft to climb. It's extremely stable and feels as floaty as my flat Hexa.

When you say it's hovering at 50% throttle, that is in manual mode right? I'm assuming you are using a Naza flight controller too.

You're biggest downfall is that you're flying a heavy craft on a weak power source, 3S. If you were flying with 4S or 5S you'd have substantially more flight time but again that thing looks like a flying battle tank. I used a Watts-Up meter to track how much power was being drawn from my MR before I had an OSD. Now that I have an OSD, I'd never fly without one as they are invaluable when combined with an eLogger.

A Y6 being light enough or the motors being powerful enough is the same thing but either way the motors have to be strong enough to be able to lift the weight of the craft from falling if one motor fails.

 

[Dewster]

When you say it's hovering at 50% throttle, that is in manual mode right? I'm assuming you are using a Naza flight controller too.

You're biggest downfall is that you're flying a heavy craft on a weak power source, 3S. If you were flying with 4S or 5S you'd have substantially more flight time but again that thing looks like a flying battle tank. I used a Watts-Up meter to track how much power was being drawn from my MR before I had an OSD. Now that I have an OSD, I'd never fly without one as they are invaluable when combined with an eLogger.

A Y6 being light enough or the motors being powerful enough is the same thing but either way the motors have to be strong enough to be able to lift the weight of the craft from falling if one motor fails.

i have the WKM. Agreed about the power source. I've considered using 4s batteries for longer flights. Maybe my next purchase. The Avoroto motors are rated for 27 amps. Having stronger ESC never hurts. My ship is heavy, but for me it flies great for its weight. I fly it like a camera ship: nice and easy.

I was told by a few that the weight of the craft will determine if it stays in the air on loss of a prop/motor/ESC.

50 percent throttle for hover is in attitude/GPS mode.

 

[helloman1976]

Sorry, the props I have are these http://www.foxtechfpv.com/1147-carbon-fiber-propeller-cwccw-p-570.html

I have those on a Hexa which has a 76cm mtm distance and is using sunnysky V2814/11 700kv motors but havent tried them on any coaxial setup.

@Stacky Hey just a follow-up from an old question. I'm now shopping for motors to replace my old and tired Turnigy NTM 750Kv motors. I was looking at the SunnySky V2814/11 700Kv motors like you mentioned. Are they worth buying, anything I should know about them and what do you think about them?


These are the ones you have right? If not can you send me a link to the ones you are using? Thanks!
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/sunnysky-281411-kv-700-motor-p-382.html