MK Power Boards in a HL Frame

Vortex

Vortex

Member
I am considering putting MK control and Power Dist Boards into a HL Octo and am not sure if the ESCs are going to be capable of supplying high enough current at 6S

From what I can see these are the figures for the MK compatible Power Dist Boards/ESCs


  • BL-CTL V2.0 35A and 40A peak (Up to 6S)
  • Aerodrive 8 35A constant or 45A burst (But limited to only 5S max)
  • Herkules VII Octo 10Arms/40Apeak per motor (Up to 6S)

The motors I want to use are

No. of cells5 - 7 Li-Poly
RPM/V515 RMP/V
Max. efficiency86%
Max. efficiency current15 - 40 A (>82%)
No load current / 10 V1,5 A
Current capacity55 A/60 s
Internal Resistance70 mohm
Dimensions (diameter. x lenght)49,8x55,5 mm
Shaft diameter6 mm
Weight with cables320 g

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Max current is 55A which will overload all the ESCs I have listed. Am I missing something or are there other options??

Thanks,

Lance
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Hi Lance,

email Andreas and ask him if 55A bursts when using cooling for the Herks is a problem. I think it should run smooth !
Addtional info on his site:

* Power up to 10Arms/40Apeak per motor (40Arms/160Apeak for quad-board) without any cooling when using activer freewheeling. With some cooling up to 100A peak per motor possible.

Boris
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
Just looking at the options again I see with a slightly different motor (5S) the peak amps is a lot lower as is the running current.....Might be the way to go but I'll email him any way.

Thanks,

Lance
 

S

Sebas600

Member
So what props are you going to use? If I'm not mistaken a lot of builds for the skyjib also use the AXI 4120 you are planning to use and they use the same power distribution Aerodrive or hercules. they probably use props that will not reach the overload point.

Keep in mind that you can limit the power flow with smaller props. You could use to big props sins the max power is rarely used. just don't flip the throttle open to the max :shame:

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1574-10kg-Heavy-lifter&highlight=10kg
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
I thought I'd put up an update on the Power Board debacle.....

After being assured the HercII boards would handle up to 100A spikes if used with the heatsink and are 6S capable I decided to get one er 2, to drive the 8 AXI4120/20 motors. I received an email this morning stating the HercII boards won't handle anywhere near the current they'll draw and have been burning up so don't run these motors as it'll void your warranty. One small consolation is that Andreas is working on another Power Board capable of driving these motors which should be ready within a Month. He didn't say whether they would be available to the public or dealers so we'll just have to be patient!!

At this point I will wait for the bigger Herc Boards as I have the motors and props rather than spending more money to replace them.

Back to playing the waiting game again....

Regards,

Lance
 

redridinghood

redridinghood

Member
Vortex said:
I thought I'd put up an update on the Power Board debacle.....

After being assured the HercII boards would handle up to 100A spikes if used with the heatsink and are 6S capable I decided to get one er 2, to drive the 8 AXI4120/20 motors. I received an email this morning stating the HercII boards won't handle anywhere near the current they'll draw and have been burning up so don't run these motors as it'll void your warranty. One small consolation is that Andreas is working on another Power Board capable of driving these motors which should be ready within a Month. He didn't say whether they would be available to the public or dealers so we'll just have to be patient!!

At this point I will wait for the bigger Herc Boards as I have the motors and props rather than spending more money to replace them.

Back to playing the waiting game again....

Regards,

Lance
Click to expand...

This is very strange since I was assured by multible ventors and by Andreas that Herkules II v3 can handle that power before I bought mine.
Can you tell us who said that the boards cannot handle that power draw?
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
redridinghood said:
This is very strange since I was assured by multible ventors and by Andreas that Herkules II v3 can handle that power before I bought mine.
Can you tell us who said that the boards cannot handle that power draw?
Click to expand...

I seems they were confident the board was able to handle the current until it went out into the field and they started failing. Once that happened they realised it was not up to the task. I have received a couple of emails regarding this ......here is one from Sebastian Seidel which seems to sum it up the best.

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UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} </style> <![endif]--> [FONT=&quot]PLEASE tell your customers not to use too big motors on the herkules.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Imagine a Skyjibmotor may only need 20A in flight what would be OK, but a axi 41 or a plettenberg which can go up to 60A will take their current for start running or in flight for stabilisation of the copter, so the peak current WILL be close to 60A which will kille the herkules.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have several customers from all distributors which had problems. So herkules should NOT be used for motors over 30A MOTOR. A AD8HLE with AXI 2814/22 on 6s with 5-8Kg weight is perfect but not more.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We were very culant and changed all defective BURNED units but we will not make this any more, burned unit is in 95% too big motor.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hope you undertand me and inform your customers before they buy it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are working on a herkules with MUCH MORE power in single, quad and Okto configuration, but this will take month to finish.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Before this you should tell the to use normal PPM or AERODRIVE from Sandro.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Herkules is a small elektronik don´t push it too much ok [/FONT]J

And one from Andreas........

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UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} </style> <![endif]--> [FONT=&quot]you are right, the AXI4120 are too big fort he board. The Herkules can drive max 30A with very very good cooling and peak max 60A! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This current is the battery current for each motor. The phase current with this motors can go up to 120 A in peak conditions! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The MOSFETs can drive max 100A phase current for a few seconds. This ESC is not the right one for this Motor![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]An ideal motor is the AXI2814 for this ESC, not More! Take a look at the size of this board. Usually a one single 60A ESC has the size of this one Quadroboard.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Best regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Andreas[/FONT]
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
I directed Andreas towards this thread to give some clearance or further explnation. The strange thing is why aerodrive should be an option peaking at 45A ?

Specifications
  • Through high performance MOSFET’s (30 pcs per controller) 35A constant or 45A burst (up to 30 seconds) possible
Details
  • Tested for high power motors and up to 40A peak load
Boris
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
Hi BorisS, I agree...The Aerodrive doesn't seem to be able to cope with a lot more than the Herc II

With the number of larger MRs with higher lifting capability becoming more prevalent whoever makes a strong reliable Power Board to handle higher current loads will do well as there is really nothing out there at the moment!!

Regards,

Lance
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
I keep seeing it mentioned that the guys who have the big heavy lift Octos and Hexas are keeping their configurations close to their chests and not sharing and I have to agree. I suppose those who have got them up and running are worried if they help out someone else they are ultimately adding competition to a relatively small market. Yes, most guys wanting to get a big MR flying usually want to in order to carry large, heavy cameras for paid work.

I don't see it like that and have to say I have never seen a facet of R/C flying in which there are so few guys who have already done the hard work to get theirs flying, actively involved and helping out others. There are a few of us out there in the same situation helping each other and I commend that!!!

We WILL work through it and we will succeed...With or without help.

Regards,

Lance
 

D

daniel

Member
yep, theres a lot of people with amazing machines.....
I learn everyday from forums,and im really thankful with that, i also give thanks to my friend David that helps me a lot!!!

i started in the mk world more than a year ago.....and since then, im still using MK FC, and BL's....and i have carry, 5D's...GH2's....etc..... in any weather conditions and territories and my bird still flying....i only upgrade the frame.....if it flys...is good for me.....i concentrate more in the camera gimbal,...picloc, smooth camera movements....and a good cameraman....
That MK FC, and those traditional BL's have gave me really good jobs and experiences.....i will change that when a new BL technology appear.....or when im ready to put a Epic camera or something really heavy.

wookong, aerodrive, hercules, etc.........not yet for me, why complicate? just got to trust in your rig.
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
daniel said:
yep, theres a lot of people with amazing machines.....
I learn everyday from forums,and im really thankful with that, i also give thanks to my friend David that helps me a lot!!!

i started in the mk world more than a year ago.....and since then, im still using MK FC, and BL's....and i have carry, 5D's...GH2's....etc..... in any weather conditions and territories and my bird still flying....i only upgrade the frame.....if it flys...is good for me.....i concentrate more in the camera gimbal,...picloc, smooth camera movements....and a good cameraman....
That MK FC, and those traditional BL's have gave me really good jobs and experiences.....i will change that when a new BL technology appear.....or when im ready to put a Epic camera or something really heavy.

wookong, aerodrive, hercules, etc.........not yet for me, why complicate? just got to trust in your rig.
Click to expand...

Hey Daniel, Yes I agree it's an exciting time with so many amazing new goodies out there!!

Point taken regarding the BLs but unfortunately they can't cope with the big current draw from large motors like the 4120/20 so that's when we need to start looking elsewhere and that's why there are likes of the Aero and Herc boards but even they cannot handle a lot more than the BLs.

If someone came up with a driver board so we could run readily available ESCs then we could fit whatever Motor/ESC combination we liked and the total current draw wouldn't be going through a single board as is the case now as it's be split out to each individual ESC.

Regards,

Lance
 

Macsgrafs

Macsgrafs

Active Member
I show people how to make power boards, it's very easy.
attachment.php


Power board made from blank PCB board, a few circles drawn with a quality compass, covered in solder & away you go...easy as ;)

Ross
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
Hey Ross, Yeah the more simple approach the better but where that will work fine for those running DJI electronics it won't work for MK based systems.

How do you think it'd go pulling 420 Amps through it??

Regards,

Lance
 

Macsgrafs

Macsgrafs

Active Member
Vortex said:
Hey Ross, Yeah the more simple approach the better but where that will work fine for those running DJI electronics it won't work for MK based systems.

How do you think it'd go pulling 420 Amps through it??

Regards,

Lance
Click to expand...

Lance, I run MK FC 2.1ME+navi & GPS. Im also using a I2C-PWM (by timecop) & 8 x 60A ESC's. The motors are all rated at 42A...so yes it should be fine for your current.

Ross
 

Vortex

Vortex

Member
Macsgrafs said:
Lance, I run MK FC 2.1ME+navi & GPS. Im also using a I2C-PWM (by timecop) & 8 x 60A ESC's. The motors are all rated at 42A...so yes it should be fine for your current.

Ross
Click to expand...
Righto......This has got my attention now you've explained what it is and it looks like just what I am looking for!!!

What else can you tell me about it.........How does it perform compared to the BL boards etc....Have you tried them?? and can you connect any ESC or do you need to use a particular type??

Thanks Ross :)

Regards,

Lance
 

Macsgrafs

Macsgrafs

Active Member
Hi Lance, I will answer only what I know, rather than what I think.

I used blank PCB from maplins:- http://www.maplin.co.uk/copper-clad-boards-2112 & if you look, there is a double sided version (one side for positive the other for negative), that's if you wanted to make sure that both tracks can take huge current, I only used single sided to be honest.

I have Never even owned a BL controller, only ever used ESC's. As for ESC's..any type will work fine, as its only the power board into the ESC's....basically its a huge round cable flattened out is the best way to describe it.

Juste remember to keep the tracks as wide as possible to allow for the current you might need, also notice I have cut the tracks at the front so that its not a complete circle.

Hope that helps mate

Ross
 

Z

zeroknowledge

Member
I would be keen to know if there is a noticable difference between something like hercules II vs I2C convertor with regular good esc's while flying these models. I do have MK flightcontroler ( + rest) on me, currently tinkering with abuse mark I2C convertor and hobbywing pentium.
 

Macsgrafs

Macsgrafs

Active Member
zeroknowledge said:
I would be keen to know if there is a noticable difference between something like hercules II vs I2C convertor with regular good esc's while flying these models. I do have MK flightcontroler ( + rest) on me, currently tinkering with abuse mark I2C convertor and hobbywing pentium.
Click to expand...

Yep thats the same guy who made my board as well.
 


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