Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

[coreyperez]

Just keep in mind, field repairs. Soldering everything and properly protecting it I'd argue is the best way to go. It just complicates field repairs. I'd recommend keeping one of the little butane soldering torches in your field repair kit.

Just as a suggestion. I have one in my "Electronics tool box" back in Alaska. Doesn't do me much good here.

Corey

 

[Bartman]

Bart,...................
Cheers,
Mike

Mike,

I've never had bullet connectors in between my batteries and ESC's until recently. It doesn't seem to harm anything and the weight is minimal but a sleeve of heat shrink over the bullet connection is cheap insurance to keep things from vibrating loose.

No argument, just pounding the skinny-helicopters-fly-longer drum.

 

[Bartman]

Bart, what size diameter solder are you using in the vids?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

.032" diameter

 

[coreyperez]

Well....

I'm about to step up to the plate and play with the big boys!

I’m at a 95% solution with my 550. I had to make a few electronics adjustments so I’ll have to reattach to the Naza software to ensure I didn’t cross anything up. At this point I just need to attach the LED, strap a battery on, put propellers on and pull pitch.

I felt better about the idea of building a quad when I was BUILDING a quad/hex. Now that it’s done and sitting on the table I’m scared.

I had hoped my Honey Badger would be here before I got this one finished. With it being a much more robust (and less expensive components) it would be much nicer to use that as my initial step. That being said, yes I could wait, but let’s be realistic…

I’m GOING FLYING!

Corey
(Really thankful for all my spares…)

 

[jbrumberg]

Corey- You fly one of these... and you are worried about your build job? Wear your flight suit, and helmet- you'll feel better on that first flight liftoff. I and probably most of us would probably lose sphincter control just hanging with you. Knowing where you are and why you fly. Stay safe. Everyone... Jay

 

[COMike93yj]

Way to go Corey!!!!! Can't wait to see how the flights turn out! I am already nervous about my maiden flight.....all my parts should be here by the end of the week from RTFQuads and I am really excited about the legs and batwing that I ordered from IrisAerial (Yuri is a great guy and I would definitely get stuff from him again in the future btw).

 

[COMike93yj]

Just keep in mind, field repairs. Soldering everything and properly protecting it I'd argue is the best way to go. It just complicates field repairs. I'd recommend keeping one of the little butane soldering torches in your field repair kit.

Just as a suggestion. I have one in my "Electronics tool box" back in Alaska. Doesn't do me much good here.

Corey

Good thoughts on the little butane soldering device! Never thought about that before but makes perfect sense!!!!

Mike,

I've never had bullet connectors in between my batteries and ESC's until recently. It doesn't seem to harm anything and the weight is minimal but a sleeve of heat shrink over the bullet connection is cheap insurance to keep things from vibrating loose.

No argument, just pounding the skinny-helicopters-fly-longer drum.

Bart, why did you elect to start going with the bullet connectors? I think I am going to start with them and then if I need to cut a few grams I would do that. Excellent idea on the heat shrink over the bullets...this way if I had to replace a motor I could just trim the heat shrink and disconnect the bullets!

 

[Bartman]

when I moved my ESC's out to the ends of the booms to be closer to the motors I started using the bullet connectors so that motors and ESC's could be quickly changed out if there was a crash.

I only do this with systems using 6S packs and use ESC's with dual capacitors that are slightly oversized for the motors. With anything else I solder the motor and power wires directly to my ESC's and just cut back the shrink wrap to get to the solder pads.

 

[COMike93yj]

Thanks Bart! Did you also move the ESCs closer to the motors so that the prop wash will help cool the ESCs as well?

 

[coreyperez]

Just a little word of ??”Caution”?? We all talk about a gram here, gram there, etc. But DJI created the WORST design EVER as far as ESC Placement. (Aerodynamically speaking). Since I’m sure we all are aware of the configuration of the 450 & 550, the ESCs are directly in the down-wash of the rotor system. This design effectively cancels lift in that region. Not quite like “Retreating blade stall” or “Dissymmetry of lift”, but anytime a lifting force is obstructing the “lift” it is in turn cancelling out the lift. Hence why helicopters tend to be so thin where the most lift is developed (tail), as well as look at how airplanes use the vertical stabilizer to cancel the propeller torque. I’d like to go and smack the DJI designer in the face with a nice big aerodynamic rule book…

People talk about the weight savings of shaving this and that. I’m not as overly concerned (as I could be) about the development of thrust, but there is a lift vector equation that when calculated with the thrust developed (specific only to the blade region impacted by the ESC) and factored in by the surface area (flat plate drag) of the ESC I’d venture you could keep bullet connectors by just putting the ESCs either within the frame area or mounting them “Sideways” to increase the airflow around them.

If you want to conduct an experiment, take a piece of cardboard that is just the same size as your MR's props (wide), attach it to the bottom and peg it! It will make a lot of noise, slide around, but it won’t go flying. All the downwash pushing upon the lifting surface = nutt’n.

Corey

 

[Bartman]

corey, welcome to the party, there are a lot of these types of discussions scattered elsewhere around the site....i've used round tubing for my frames' arms for a number of reasons but one of them is definitely because the round tubing offers the least resistance to the airflow coming off of the props (short of a more complicated aerodynamic solution). i'll have a NAZA V2 product review posted in a week or so and you'll my frames in the video. the truss thing that DJI uses must be cheap as hell for them to mold and, to their credit, it's durable and easy to assemble while also getting the alignment dead on every time so i try not to complain about it (much).

 

[gringers]

I’m GOING FLYING!

Corey
(Really thankful for all my spares…)

Congrats and good luck Corey, I'm sure you won't need the spares!

Look forward to hearing how it goes

 

[jbrumberg]

Congrats and good luck Corey, I'm sure you won't need the spares!

Look forward to hearing how it goes

I may yank your chain Corey, but I hope the best for your first flight. I have one of those butane soldering irons. They work great, and even better I have not had to use it on my quad for repairs yet.

I had mixed feelings about the frame used in this build project for the reasons already mentioned, but for motor alignment as Bartman mentioned, that flat motor mount base beats a round boom for ease in motor base set up as I found out.

 

[coreyperez]

J,

Oh, after 17+ years in the Military I’m grown quite accustomed to getting my chain yanked! I’m numb at this point

Well new development… I know it probably sounds silly, but since I’ve now broken my ladybird TWICE, and I do mean BROKEN, I’m re-evaluating me jumping headfirst into the 550. I was ??Lucky?? in the respect that it was raining all day here in my little region of Korea so I didn’t get the 550 out and try and fly it. This evening I happened to track my 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] frame & motors package and… IT’s HERE!

Considering my Honey Badger is so much more robust I’m going to hold off the maiden flight of the 550 until I’ve got the Honey Badger built and flown. I’m not sure if I’m going to use the KK or the MulitWii FC yet on it (I’ve got both). I’m currently leaning towards the MWii, and was just getting ready to try and figure that darn thing out. Neither the KK nor the MWii have been researched (on my end) yet. So, I’m going to focus on the MWii basically because it has the same features (plus) and is 1/5[SUP]th[/SUP] the price. If I damage it, I’ve got two KK boards sitting in my pile of new parts.

So.. Off to try and figure out what the MWii is all about, get a base-line for adjustments/programming if it’s even required. In addition, trying to figure out how to get the remote programmed to it. (MWii wiki SUCKS for finding info...)

MAN I’m glad I’ve got an additional transmitter module and RX too!

Corey

 

[jbrumberg]

There are "good" problems and "bad" problems. It looks like you have quite a few "good" problems upon which to focus. Good luck.

 

[gringers]

J,

Well new development… I know it probably sounds silly, but since I’ve now broken my ladybird TWICE, and I do mean BROKEN, I’m re-evaluating me jumping headfirst into the 550.
Corey

Hey Corey, sorry to hear about the breakages but don't get disheartened! I properly trashed 2 MQX's (after probably replacing every original part!) and still have to do repairs to my third on a regular basis!

With that in mind, I definitely still think those little micros have got to be the way to learn! As you know the F550/naza-m v2 is my first build and my first step up from the MQX! Well, stepping into the F550 has been a breeze compared to learning to fly that little MQX. Hell, it's still waaaay more difficult to fly the MQX now than the F550 (with all the help the NAZA gives and the extra stability that comes with a bigger hex)! BUT with that said, I don't think I'd be comfortable with the F550 unless I was at least able to fly the MQX relatively comfortably (and believe me, I don't fly it that well!)

The biggest leap in learning came for me when I took micros outside. Inside I was just too paranoid about hitting stuff and therefore never really allowed myself to get the feel of it. Plus it was quite depressing seeing the damage when you smack a brick wall.....hitting grass outside ain't half as bad

Anyway, I don't reckon it would take many hours (outside for me!) on a micro multirotor to get comfortable and then, like I say, the step up to the F550 really isn't too bad at all.

I have no knowledge of the Mwii but I chose the Naza simply because compared to everything out there, it just looked a nice easy, tried and tested, virtually plug and play solution for a first build and step up. I'm the last person that should be giving advice but I would say, as you have all the DJI parts, instead of now dedicating time to learning everything Mwii, focus on honing skills with a micro (no matter how many spares you need, they're cheaper and more importantly EASIER to fix than a 'proper' quad/hex) and continue along the plug and play 550 route!

Good luck whatever you do!

Cheers
Paul

 

[jbrumberg]

"hitting grass outside ain't half as bad" I much prefer nice "soft" grass as well. Apparently with adequate protection of the FCB, a snowpile isn't too bad either :black_eyed: as I found out earlier today. In hindsight I was a little hasty in getting my build flying outdoors. A little drying out exercises indoors. No real damages a little hot glue couldn't fix except to my ego:strawberry:.

 

[NeilM]

you guys are sharp! you must be paying attention and those long hours of surfing multirotorforums.com are paying off!

with the NAZA you'll need
Throttle
Rudder
Pitch
Roll
Flight mode
and maybe
Failsafe

Then, if you also want IOC, or camera tilt you'll need additional channels.

So 6 is the minimum with some ability to program a mix (for the failsafe function) and 8 or 9 in order to take advantage of the more advanced functions.

A turnigy 9X is fine I guess, I don't know a lot about them but if you look at my pics I'm using an Orange receiver which is probably made in the same factory as the 9X if I had to guess.

Like Corey said, it's an ok first radio and will be a perfectly fine radio for a camera operator if you ever decide to go that route.

I've been away so I apologize for yet another pause in the build's progress. I'll try to get it moving again this week.

Bart

So is a 6channel the absolute lowest for flying a quad? Will my DX5e not work then? I just want the basics in building a Quad.

 

[COMike93yj]

J,

Oh, after 17+ years in the Military I’m grown quite accustomed to getting my chain yanked! I’m numb at this point

Well new development… I know it probably sounds silly, but since I’ve now broken my ladybird TWICE, and I do mean BROKEN, I’m re-evaluating me jumping headfirst into the 550. I was ??Lucky?? in the respect that it was raining all day here in my little region of Korea so I didn’t get the 550 out and try and fly it. This evening I happened to track my 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] frame & motors package and… IT’s HERE!

Considering my Honey Badger is so much more robust I’m going to hold off the maiden flight of the 550 until I’ve got the Honey Badger built and flown. I’m not sure if I’m going to use the KK or the MulitWii FC yet on it (I’ve got both). I’m currently leaning towards the MWii, and was just getting ready to try and figure that darn thing out. Neither the KK nor the MWii have been researched (on my end) yet. So, I’m going to focus on the MWii basically because it has the same features (plus) and is 1/5[SUP]th[/SUP] the price. If I damage it, I’ve got two KK boards sitting in my pile of new parts.

So.. Off to try and figure out what the MWii is all about, get a base-line for adjustments/programming if it’s even required. In addition, trying to figure out how to get the remote programmed to it. (MWii wiki SUCKS for finding info...)

MAN I’m glad I’ve got an additional transmitter module and RX too!

Corey

Corey,

Yes I agree with you on the lift of the rotors (ESC will detract from the downforce from the props) but there are always trade-offs.....I have seen many folks PREACH about keeping the ESCs cool and others that do not care. I would think, again assumptions, that keeping the ESCs cool would be a good thing. However when running a 30A ESC there shouldn't be a concern on the heat issues (someone chime in and give your thoughts).....

Soooo.....what is the "BEST SOLUTION"......time will tell...I will experiment with the configurations. For now, I will probably keep the ESCs closer to the center of the quad and fly as it is.....soldering is relatively easy so if there is an issue then I will reconsider their placement.

Here is a link to a NSFW video that I simply cannot pass up because of the "Honey Badger" reference.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

 

[Bartman]

So is a 6channel the absolute lowest for flying a quad? Will my DX5e not work then? I just want the basics in building a Quad.

You can fly a quad with 4 channels but you won't have any additional features. If you're in it for fun or just to give it a try then you're good to go. With five channels you'll be able to do the build we're doing here except no advanced features but that shouldn't stop you from having a good time with it.

Is channel 5 on a two position or three position switch? If it's two you'll be limited to what you can do for selecting flight modes but you should still be able to flip Atti or GPS mode on or off. It will depend on which flight control system you choose.


Bart