Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

[Bartman]

well, a motor turned by another motor is a generator for the most part, right? i never thought to give that a try (nicely done Corey!) and they're pretty close except for that gimpy #8. i don't know to what degree it would affect things but it's probably not wrong to say the closer they are the better.

Corey, with two wires you're only testing one set of poles though, right? As there are three sets of poles have you tested any other two sets of wires to see if they are any different in motor #8?

that one motor with the lower readout probably wouldn't have much of an effect on the overall flying qualities of the helicopter. for roll/pitch/yaw it wold be working with three other motors for any one control input. maybe it would though? all other factors being really well tuned and balanced maybe it would introduce an extra challenge for the flight control to deal with?

interesting to think about.

 

[COMike93yj]

hey guys,

I am new to this site and to quadcopters. I have a small basically indoor heli that i have been playing around with but its too small to fly outside unless it's really calm with no wind, lost my first one in the trees. I am leaving for a cruise tomorrow but when I get back I am going to try and catch up to the group build. I have a ton of questions that I dont want to feel stupid asking but was wondering if you could maybe do a post at the top of this thread with the suggested components for this build with links so I can see exactly what you are talking about. maybe some compatible but cheaper versions of components. For example you mention the NAZA FCB but i dont really want to spend 300+ for my first build will the KK2.1 FCB be able to give similar performance? I know you are busy and have limited time but that would be very helpful. Also if there is anyone in the New Orleans, Louisiana area that could show me some tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,

I am doing a "budget" build with my DJI F450 and am sourcing parts. I started a thread in the beginner lounge asking for some critiques on my build. You can get a partial list from there if ya like. Once I finalize the build (hopefully this weekend as we are getting some nice snow in the Mountains today) I will put up a post here on just what I purchased. Hopefully it will get you closer to narrowing down your search.

Some things you might want to consider:

1. What do you intend to do with the quad?
2. Will you ever want to try taking aerial videos/photos with your quad?
3. Do you want to do flips, rolls, aerobatics with your quad?
4. What are you looking for with regards to flying time?
5. Do you ever want to do FPV flying?

Those things will help you narrow down your search and help us help YOU!

Have fun on your cruise and we will all be here when you get back to assist!

Mike

PS..... Some things that you and I might have in common....I am trying to do this frugally in some areas (hence my choice of KK2.1)....while I am learning and tweaking this build I am saving up some dough for the potential of a different flight controller in the future. I am not concerned with aerobatics but AM concerned about doing some aerial videos and some FPV in the future. This is kind of guiding my selection for motors/props/batteries. I plan on being in the hobby for a long time (hopefully!) so I am going the route of "CRY ONCE, BUY ONCE" as many folks have stated.

Some things to consider:

You will need to have soldering tools, wires, connectors, glue, tools (read: allen wrenches or drivers, screw drivers, wire cutters, maybe a hobby knife...etc)....these all add up to cost. You will also need a charger for your batteries so don't forget that as well. Some spares (props, arms, ESC (?), perhaps a motor (?))...you will have accidents and it is nice to have spares so that you can get up in the air readily. This isn't a comprehensive list but some things I have considered.

 

[Jeffnola]

hey thanks mike,

I will start getting all my ducks in a row when i get back. I will be getting a weller soldering iron. its the only tool i dont really have. Maybe i dont need the GPS as of yet, I lost a helicopter to light breeze and couldt get orientation correct and flew it off into the sunset.:upset: thanks for the reply and i will get back on when i get my stuff.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[coreyperez]

Gentlemen,

I wish I could take credit for it, but I came upon the idea in passing (one of the thousands and thousands of posts I’ve read through.. **Found it, link at bottom**). It made perfect sense to me, I believe it was a person testing things after everything went south. He was trying to figure out if his ESC or Motor failed. It got me thinking of running a baseline on my motors to then check their longevity as well as build a method for seeing how much “useful life” they may have. I don’t know if it will work, but without trying I’d never know.


As far as the method for testing, yes, I used a drill to spin the motors, Bart was correct. I just tested two of the three leads, noted the voltage, swapped to the other lead and tested again and finally made the third swap. There typically wasn’t a large variance between each lead on the individual motors. There was an initial spike (I started slowly and slowed down gently, not that it should really matter, mostly just to keep the motor from spinning off my set of clamps). All this being said… I may go back and re-test #8. I got two spares when I purchased my batch of stuff so I can live with it being a spare for the time.

I noted that the majority of the motors were in the .64_ range. I would (I guess) ideally hope for all them to be there, .646-.647 where most of my motors lie. All in all I guess we can consider it an experiment? I hope to log my flights and build a report to see how these motors all pan out. Worst case, I suppose I could re-duplicate the runs with a bench run with #8 and see how it averages out with the nearly-same run duration. Ideally with varying throttle, but that is down the road.

I had hoped to get my props balanced last night but found out I need some CA for my balancer. We have a curfew here in Korea so I couldn’t go running out at 11:30p and take the chance of busting our 01:00 curfew to get the CA. So, I’ll run to the PX (Post Exchange) this morning and pick some up and get the blades balanced.

Ahhh. Found it: Post 11 & 15

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63201

Corey

 

[COMike93yj]

Really cool idea Corey!

Where are you stationed in Korea? I hated the curfews there...getting harassed by the SPs when coming home from a flight and staying off base. I would kill for some spicy chicken bulgogi right now!!!

Mike

 

[Pleiades]

Have just taken my newly built F450 on its first proper flight.
I'd previously taken it on a small test flight and found it exhibited the "toilet bowl effect"
After a bit of research and tweaking of the compass it seems rock steady now.

I even had the confidence to take it over water.
...and just gotta love the Flytrex! http://flytrex.com/mission/quadcopter-dji-f450-flamewheel-jon-clapton-9250/

 

[coreyperez]

Pleiades, That is pretty cool! Congrats! It seems like its taking FOREVER for my parts to make their way to Korea. As it is, I don't even have a LiPo charger on order I also hadn't heard of flytrex before. Kind of a neat idea. I'm looking for logging software, (more along the lines of a system log), but this looks like it would be a cool addition.

Corey

 

[CaptainJustice]

* * * I'm looking for logging software, (more along the lines of a system log), * * * *

Corey,
Look at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.FlightLog for Android systems. I read about it in the forums, installed it, and like it a lot. I would not call it a "system" log but it does allow you to record flights, notes about them, battery charges and usage. Supports multiple craft and multiple batteries. I log everything. I do wish it had a place to add other notes such as build/mod notes.

 

[coreyperez]

CaptainJustice,

I probably didn't use the correct phrase. I initially wanted to go with the Xaircraft system due to its system logging (think "black box"). I had learned how you could pull up the system logs and review signal strengths, controller positions, etc. all basically giving the controller a chance to review what was going on (from the eyes of the MultiRotor). I had seen where a guy was getting unexplained drift, he kept trying to change controller settings and I think it was crashed. Later the system logs were reviewed and it was determined that he was flying it in too close proximity to power lines, the EMI was causing magnetic interference with the compass (the drift) and his changing of the gains caused the actual accident. I may have some of the facts wrong, but what it comes down to is figured an integrated system like that would solve TONS of problems. Give the person some piece of mind, especially when troubleshooting. When it came down to it, I had to settle.... Ugh... I hate doing that, I had to settle. For a DJIpackage. Only because my lack of knowledge and the lack of any real solid information if component A will work flawlessly with package B. I figured the settling would be my entry level stuff and I could use it on something else later. I also hope to build one of the sub $175 MRs after I getit all figured out. I may make enough of them to mow the yard for me when I get back in the us. Who knows! Right now I'll have to keep waiting for parts and money.

i like that software and may use it for my motor tracking and flight log. Thanks for sharing!

Corey

 

[Pleiades]

Hmmm I have bad news...my new build has gone!

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?16175-DJI-F450-NAZA-Flyaway

 

[coreyperez]

UGH! This totally re-energizes my planning methods for a 100% stand-alone recovery system... Sorry to hear about that man! Not that it does you any good, but I've seen where people use the pet tracking GPS thing on their quad in the event this happens. I personally am planning a secondary 100% stand-alone parachute/battery kill (switch) that will disengage the battery (ie: blow a fuse or something) AND deploy a parachute. These darn things cost too much money to just "Trust" they will work correctly.

Do you have any idea how high you were? I'm not planning on doing anything but low altitude aerial around a fixed object.

Best of luck...

Corey

 

[Cheshirecat]

Ouch feel sorry for you, bummer. I have never read about a flyaway invloving a WKM, only Naza (others may tell me otherwise) if so what is it about Naza, the Phantom has a Naza and seems plagued by this. I fly a Phnatom 1 as well as a WKM equipped SkyJib and to date (touch wood) have never had an out of control issue with the Phantom. I had started to think it was more to do with the quality of the basic TX/RX on the Phantom and have upgraded mine to Futaba.
Is the terrain inaccessible? you can't walk the flight path? Corey mentioned a pet tracker and i assume he means the system that uses the Cell system and GPS to provide location information, but... having a radio onboard transmitting on the cell phone frequencies could cause additional problems, it would need careful consideration.
I also looked at ballistic recovery systems at the thought of £10,000 worth of Skyjib in the air but somebody on this forum made the good point about deployment time for a chute, so unless you operate at a reasonable altitude you are probably going to hit the deck before the chute has fully deployed so you could end up carrying useless and expensive dead weight.
No easy answers.
I hope you can find the rig and start to investigate what went wrong.

 

[Bartman]

Hmmm I have bad news...my new build has gone!

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?16175-DJI-F450-NAZA-Flyaway

Very sorry to hear it! If you don't mind I'd like to use this discuss something that would have come up later as the thread made it to the flying phase.

Regarding RTH and some of the other features that rely on GPS, they need to be tested before you get to the point where you've outflown your eyesight and need to use them for the first time to attempt a recovery.

Start off your test flights by flying around your immediate area (not so close so that you hit yourself but not so far that you can't identify the helicopter's front and back easily). Once you're comfortable flying it in manual and attitude modes, try GPS position hold. Once you're comfortable that it's working, fly a hundred feet or so away from your position at an altitude of about 75 ft and see what happens when you switch on Return to Home. When you do this be ready to switch it back off immediately if it does something unexpected. It might climb to a preset altitude if it's too low, don't panic. If it begins to fly away from you then switch it back off, return to manual mode, and attempt to fly it back to your position or just cut the throttle and let it land where it's at so long as it can't create a risk to anyone or thing around you.

You are a test pilot and you have to be methodical about getting started with your new aircraft. Know the switches and have a plan for each flight. Know where your safe areas are and where less safe areas are (a ballgame, dog park, active roads, crowds, buildings, etc.). Ask yourself before you take off, "Where will you land if there's an emergency?". This should be done before every flight just as every full scale pilot does because when there is an emergency it's too late to begin planning, you have to react and try to respond appropriately.

Continuing with the features testing, fly away from your position a little bit and try to activate Intelligent Orientation Control, see if it responds as you'd expect and be ready to switch it back off immediately if it doesn't.

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think switching off the transmitter is a good response to a flyaway. We can discuss that in the DJI sub-forum but I think if the helicopter is already behaving oddly, switching off the Tx will be ineffective.

Sorry again Pleiades for your loss and I hope you don't think I'm beating up on you. We've got others that are ready to fly already and I figured this should be discussed now as a precaution. I'm sorry if there anything here that could have helped you.

Bart

 

[JoeBob]

I had never thought about putting my name and phone number on the copter.

As Bart alluded to, if your copter is not responding to the controls, it probably won't respond to a kill switch/parachute command either.

Pet GPS tracker:
1.16 oz. Measuring 1.49” x 3.18” x .77”
View attachment 15551
$100 includes tracker and charger, plus 3 months service. $8 per month after. You could allow service to expire and renew it if you loose your bird.
Works wherever Verizon has coverage.
Radio interference?

http://www.pettracker.com/pet-gps

 

[COMike93yj]

Pleiades,

So sorry for your loss! I posted up on your other thread. I am going to put my phone and email address on the quad in case I do lose it...hopefully someone will return it if it gets lost.

@Bartman.....you are 100% correct in what you stated. In the USAF we call them EPs (emergency procedures) and they have to be second nature!!!!

One of the reasons I am going about my build the way I am is because I NEED to be able to fly the craft w/o aid of various "assistance" such as GPS/Self Level/RTH etc....I am gradually learning on my Nano QX to fly in all orientations. That was my FIRST STEP! Second is to fly with the Self Level function off....many call this ATTI or Attitude I believe. This will help me be able to recover the aircraft when a situation happens and I need to do so.

 

[jbrumberg]

Sorry about your loss Pleiades.

 

[sledge57]

Wow that really sucks, I know the feeling of crashing RC aircraft but not losing one completely, sorry to hear this.

Now for a few questions. In an earlier thread you were having issues binding your FrSKY TFR6 Rx to your Futaba TX. I never saw you post anything about having figured out the issue.

This Rx issue is the first thing that came to mind when I read what happened.

Did you use this Rx or your Futaba Rx from your 550?

Which ever Rx you used did you range check it before flying so far away?

Did you configure a RTH switch on your T8FG Super Tx? If yes did it seem to work as you expected in Naza Assistant?

Did you set the throttle for ~ 50% in Failsafe in your Tx?

Lastly what firmware were you using in your V2 FC? Mine came with 4.00 (I think) and has an update available. I've read a lot of complaints about the newest FW so I haven't updated mine yet.

Hope you get it back.

 

[sledge57]

<<SNIP>>

Regarding RTH and some of the other features that rely on GPS, they need to be tested before you get to the point where you've outflown your eyesight and need to use them for the first time to attempt a recovery.

Start off your test flights by flying around your immediate area (not so close so that you hit yourself but not so far that you can't identify the helicopter's front and back easily). Once you're comfortable flying it in manual and attitude modes, try GPS position hold. Once you're comfortable that it's working, fly a hundred feet or so away from your position at an altitude of about 75 ft and see what happens when you switch on Return to Home. When you do this be ready to switch it back off immediately if it does something unexpected. It might climb to a preset altitude if it's too low, don't panic. If it begins to fly away from you then switch it back off, return to manual mode, and attempt to fly it back to your position or just cut the throttle and let it land where it's at so long as it can't create a risk to anyone or thing around you. <<SNIP>>

Bart

I agree all this should be done but watching some of the videos of guys testing RTH it scares the crap out of me thinking about the first couple of tests.

I've only got 4 flights on mine so far and if you saw my video I kept it to about 10 - 12 feet max and in Attitude and manual mode only. I did the compass calibration but I wasn't 100% clear on what the LED was telling me. After a lot more reading I now understand the LED now and know I made a few mistakes prior to my first flights.

That was the reason for keeping it low and avoiding GPS mode. Even though one of my goofs was related to attitude mode. I forgot to set the copter down and let the IMU properly initialize, I was holding it when i plugged in the battery (I expect it to be a bit more stable next time) Don't know why I didn't remember this, I have E-Copters with Gyros and know to do it with them.

I'd like to hear more about others experiences when testing RTH for the first time, especially from those people who had issues.

 

[Pleiades]

Yep....all points taken....guess I was too cocksure and overconfident.
I have experience with two other multirotors - phantom and F550 both with Naza...Id tested RTH with them without problem.
Id installed the Futaba Rx on the F450 and upgraded to the latest firmware on the Naza.
I hadnt configured a switch on the Futaba Tx

It was heading towards the residential area of town so hopefully someone will find it
It would nice to get the mini SDs back from both the Flytrex and the Mobius camera that I had strapped on!

 

[jbrumberg]

I would keep my eye on rcgroup.com, and put out some kind of PSA locally. The other day a phantom owner found a wayward flyaway Phantom with a GoPro in some bushes while he was jogging. There was no identifying information on the quadcopter or camera. He posted his find hoping to find the owner on rcg. There are honest people in the world still. Hopefully you'll get lucky. I learned from your misfortune.