CS8 to X8 conversion - Herkules ESC III V3

[BorisS]

HI Heinz,

i will anser it here !

I never have constant gains for pitch roll and yaw. I always have them on one of the Xs. Start them on 140 for all three and adjust them on the fly to what ever feels right. Conditions are always different thus i want to be able to adjust the gains !.
Vertical I leave at 130 abouts and attitude i dont bother to change from a 100 on the big birds !

Boris

 

[SMP]

SMP for a heavy lift, DJI WKM or Mikrokopter based for sure Herkules III !

Boris

Thx mate, you know how it is... if only I knew then what i know now kinda thing Thats great news!

 

[hexacop]

Hi guys,
I hope you can give me some advise in regards to my planned setup with a Herkules III, Tiger MN 4010 motors and DJI Wookong.
The frame is not ready yet but it will be a foldable X8 frame to carry some heavier cameras.
Even I have read almost all 60 pages of this interesting thread I could not find a recommendation for setting the right timing for the T-motor MN series.
Does anyone of you have a similar setup and could post the Herkules and DJI settings?

 

[BorisS]

hexacop, for timing best is to write Andreas a short email. They tested all the motors and can give you the best answer !

Concerning DJI setting, dont think it is really possible to give you any data. To many variables prop size frame size etc etc and than additionally question of taste.

Boris

 

[krleas]

Hi guys,
I hope you can give me some advise in regards to my planned setup with a Herkules III, Tiger MN 4010 motors and DJI Wookong.
The frame is not ready yet but it will be a foldable X8 frame to carry some heavier cameras.
Even I have read almost all 60 pages of this interesting thread I could not find a recommendation for setting the right timing for the T-motor MN series.
Does anyone of you have a similar setup and could post the Herkules and DJI settings?

If u bought herkules III at Kopterworx or Globe flight, they are already preprogramed for DJI and your motora, just plug it and fly.

If not use standard settings for PPM as u can read on Andreas page.

 

[hexacop]

Ok thank you, now I will continue to build the frame ;-)
Luckily I got the Herkules today and it fits into the frame.

 

[hexacop]

After reading the documentation carefully 3-4 times I'm still not decided how to wire the motors to the ESC. Also I do not want to cross cables if not necessary.
As I want to comply with the suggested DJI Octo-X configuration, don't cross or swap any PPM input cables nor the ESC output wires, do I need to re-flash and remap the motor addresses?
Based on the Herkules manual: 5.2.2 Octocopter “Flat-X” with DJI-Wookong, I have changed the mapping table like this:
View attachment 13182
Can one of you confirm if the new mapping plan is ok?
Each ESC is taking care of 2 motor pairs, and may survive the loss of one ESC, which I hope will never happen.
Upper level props are spinning left, bottom level props are spinning right as suggested by DJI.

 

[ichwillnix]

Hi Hexacop,

i dont understand your issue fully?
You are using DJI WKM?
If yes, then you dont have to seqeeze your mind with I2C addresses at all if you dont use telemetry.
WKM delivers only PPM signals, which you have to route manually with patch cables to the adequate motor connectors of the Herkules. You can not do here anything with I2C addresses !

By default, programm the firmware AFW1, kHz16, ADV18 from the subfolder "PPM". This is a good proven standard for most motors.
Only in case you are using the external Herkules Telemetry Interface, you have to install the Firmware from the subfolder "PPMT" ('T' stands for telemetry feedback).

Which firmware do you want to flash and do you use a Herkules Telemetry Interface Board?

Andreas

 

[hexacop]

Hi Andreas,
thank you for the response, I was confused by the mapping table in the manual: 5.2.2 Octocopter “Flat-X” with DJI-Wookong
Yes I have got the Herkules telemetry interface from you, where can I find the subfolder PPMT? It was not included with the Herkules III v3 Programming Tool v.103
I will use Tiger MN 4010 motors.

Is it useful to use the AFW0 files as long the copter is not fully loaded? as in the FAQ you recommend to enable the Active Freewheeling only >5A per motor.

 

[ichwillnix]

The Telemetry Firmware is short before release.
Therefore you can load it only with a beta tester account.
We will put them to the official download soon.
Please write me a PM and i will send you the firmware.

Andreas

 

[krleas]

After reading the documentation carefully 3-4 times I'm still not decided how to wire the motors to the ESC. Also I do not want to cross cables if not necessary.
As I want to comply with the suggested DJI Octo-X configuration, don't cross or swap any PPM input cables nor the ESC output wires, do I need to re-flash and remap the motor addresses?
Based on the Herkules manual: 5.2.2 Octocopter “Flat-X” with DJI-Wookong, I have changed the mapping table like this:
View attachment 16685
Can one of you confirm if the new mapping plan is ok?
Each ESC is taking care of 2 motor pairs, and may survive the loss of one ESC, which I hope will never happen.
Upper level props are spinning left, bottom level props are spinning right as suggested by DJI.

Yes this is ok, do i like that.
U can even make your custom mixer, so motors will spin like MK.

 

[hexacop]

Ok thank you,
now I wait for the new telemetry firmware to be able to use the telemetry board and I'm curious to see how the baby will fly ;-)
In the meantime I have mounted the DJI stuff...
View attachment 13196

 

[hexacop]

Yes this is ok, do i like that.
U can even make your custom mixer, so motors will spin like MK.

Actually you are right, I would really prefer the MK mixer, even I have not tested yet the suggested DJI mixer, I would expect Yaw to work better with the MK mixer.
Did one of you use the customer mixer to make it work MK like?
View attachment 13197

And second question, is it useful to run higher speed of the lower motor compared to the upper motor? I have done that with the MK mixer in the past and it worked well...
According to the manual 100% is maximum, would mean the lower motor would run at 100% but the upper motor should be adjusted to a lower value.
Do you have any experience with such a custom mixer table?
Just created one, will it work???
View attachment 16701
The idea is to run upper motors only at 90% speed and lower ones at 100%

 

[hexacop]

Hi guys, any advise ???
If not I will go fly now ;-)

 

[hexacop]

Also DJI support was very helpful, this was the answer I got:
Hi, Sir,Sorry, can not help you on this. You should follow the default motor mixer provided in the software.

Best regards, DJI


But everything is fine and the bird flies like a charm, and with a great sound ;-)

The only thing not working yet is the Herkules telemetry, hope Andreas will get it fixed soon!

 

[ichwillnix]

Hi Hexacop,

there is another good working Koax8-Setting. This is even more safe with HERKULES III because:

1) The Top Herkules QUAD-ESC (all on one PCB) spin the Top Motors as a fully self-running Quad-copter
2) The Bot Herkules QUAD-ESC spin the BOT Motors also as a self running Quad-copter.

So if in worst case one complete Herkules quad-ESC would fail, the copter would be "at leased" controllable and should be able to land in a controlled way
I personally fly this setting and the stability is even better than the original DJI proposal.

This setting is more or less the same as the Mikrokopter Setting and is working really perfect!

The Motor Mixing Table for this setting will be attached in the Herkules User Manual. This is also almost ready for release.
=> If using on Top and Bot the same propellers, the upper ones should run about 5% slower than the lower ones. This improves the overall-efficiency and balances the power better between top and bottom.


By the way: The Telemetry Interface is now also ready for delivery.

Currently tested and released are the following Telemetry interfaces:

1. Jeti Duplex (+ EX)
2. Graupner Hott

Currently in Beta-Test:

1. Futaba S-BUS
2. Multiplex M-Link
3. JR Telemetry
4. Hitec
5. Spektrum

A detailed description of the features will follow soon...

 

[hexacop]

Hi Andreas,
thank you for the update and the suggestion how to configure it, this is exactly what I wanted and had configured it already like that.
Only my mixer table is configured with 90% for upper motors and 100% for lower motors.
As the telemetry is working now, I will start to record some flights with different mixer settings and different props to find the best efficiency.
Where can I get a program to read the log files?

 

[hexacop]

I have found Logview and was able to import the log files but seems not all data is available yet.
There is no data in channel 1, 5 and 6, ie. Voltage, Watt, Height data is missing
channel 2 shows motor status,
channel 3 shows current per motor and channel 4 shows temperature per motor, see graphs attached.
Would be easier to compare if the Y axis would not show 8 different but only one scale. Any idea how this behavior can be changed?

 

[ichwillnix]

Hi Hexacop,
you have to load a special open-format configuration file to logview. I will put the files and descriptions to the software update and will put a description for this to the manual also. With this file, you can read all available parameters.
But there are currently not all parameters available. But the moste and important one's are in the logging file.
E.g. The single cell battery voltages are missing (due to missing sensor) but all other should be here like:
- Battery Voltage
-Battery Current (actual, peak, average)
-Used Capacity (mAh)
-Highest ESC Temp
-Highest ESC Temp number
-Altitude
-Power
-Single ESC Temps
-Single ESC Currents
-and others more...

Unfortunately logview does not allow to put many parameters on one Y-axis. I am in discussion with the developers to improve this.
As a work-around, scale all axes e.g. Motor current 1...8 with the same range (min/max) and you can compare the values easily. You can save the setting also a template. So you must not do the same scaling each time you are importing files from the data logger....

Please check in the next days the download area of www.andreasbaier.de for updated description and logging files.
Andreas

 

[hexacop]

Hi Andreas,
yes I'm aware how to load the open format config for the Herkules, I've done it already, but for sure will appreciate the update from you ;-)
See attached files, I made a comparison with different mixer settings at 90/100, 95/100 and 100/100
Use the advanced editor to edit the chart as you mentioned and then save it as a graphics template. Later one you can reload the template to format the data in the same format.
After all I have configured my mixer to 93/100, that should do it for now.

Do you have a new firmware .17 for the logger as well?