Aeronavics / Droidworx Coaxial X4 problem

cbuk

Member
I'm having a few problems with a new coaxial skyjib X4 build (6S, 4014-11's, 15 x 4.5, approx 8.5 kg). I'm thinking/hoping the problem may lie with the motor and propeller alignments which I plan to check tomorrow. For now, I'm just scouring the internet for any relevent info. Any pointers as to what else may be causing my problems would be really appreciated...a crash today has dented my confidence somewhat.

The X4 flies OKish in still conditions but is horrific in any wind....kinda defeats the object of having the coax! The lack of control in wind is so bad that it resulted in a very hard and sideways landing today and 4 broken propellers.
The problem is that when confronted with any wind (gusts being especially bad) the craft starts wobbling and oscillating badly; when this happenes I have also noticed the engines make a kind of pulsating “vroom vroom” noise with a frequency of just under a second or so, rather than the constant whirring sound. Like I say, when its out of the wind it hovers and flies fairly well although by no means perfect.

I've changed the gains from low to high and back again, but this seems to have little effect so I dont think this is the controlling factor in my problem.
The WKM sensor unit is securely fasten with the standard DJI 3m foam tape on the top plate (which has the rubber stand-offs).
GPS and IMU offsets are setup and gps reception was good at test location.

I had previously thought that because both the top and bottom engine mounts of the X4 both have locator pins that fit into predrilled holes on the booms, the engines and propellers would by default be aligned. The same goes for alignment of the booms between the boom clamps. I will check tomorrow and hope I do find that they are out of alignment, because if the alignment is OK then I dont have a clue what the problem is.

Would possible alignment errors in my X4 build be sufficient to cause the problem I'm having? Because everything thing is predrilled, its hard to see how the misalignment could be large enough to cause the problems I have?

Any help or suggestions would be really appreciated because after today exploits I feel a tad deflated.

Cheers
 


cbuk

Member
X4 is not coaxial. FYI

Am I missing something here?

From DW site
The X-4 configuration – 8 motors in coaxial arrangement – offers more stability in windy conditions than it’s horizontal plane opponents and is still compact with it’s 900mm overall diameter – suited for fitting up to 15″ propellers. Also available in ‘Retractable Landing Gear’ version – SJR.
 

Cbuk,

Sorry to hear about the 'issues' with your x4. I have a similar setup (not Droid) with a Wookong controller. Personally I find it to be a fantastic combination - I now fly an X8 configuration. Despite the criticism, I adore my wkm!

I'm not at all surprised that a crash has affected your confidence. I was the same, despite the fact that there is little I could have done with previous quads.

What would I look at?

Motors secure? Have you tried props off and tried running the motors up?

Re checked IMU for secure ness and facing forwards (or as described on WKM assistant)..Is it as close as you can mount it to the CofG? Is the assistant showing any problems?

Prop rotation correct as per Wkm instructions and props correct way up etc.

Calibration, including compass etc.

For me the most likely is in the assistant there are two quad rotor settings, quad rotor 1 and quad rotor X. Triple check this is at its easy to programme the incorrect on (I did this on my hexa, which also has two configurations V and I - it handled in a similar way to yours)...

I hope that you get it sorted

Regards

Rich
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
the nomenclature of multi's is pretty straight forward. X is the configuration of arms. 4 is the # of motors. To be considered a coaxial heli, you would need a motor top and bottom on each arm. That would be an Y6,X8,XY8 or X12 until someone decided to go further.
 

cbuk

Member
the nomenclature of multi's is pretty straight forward. X is the configuration of arms. 4 is the # of motors. To be considered a coaxial heli, you would need a motor top and bottom on each arm. That would be an Y6,X8,XY8 or X12 until someone decided to go further.

I'm sure you are aware that the Droidworx retail three flavours of Skyjib: Skyjib 8, Skyjib 6 and Skyjib X4. Its not my bloody fault they decided to call their coaxial model X4. Some advice instead of pedantic name nit-picking would be appreciated.:upset:
 

cbuk

Member
Cbuk,

Sorry to hear about the 'issues' with your x4. I have a similar setup (not Droid) with a Wookong controller. Personally I find it to be a fantastic combination - I now fly an X8 configuration. Despite the criticism, I adore my wkm!

I'm not at all surprised that a crash has affected your confidence. I was the same, despite the fact that there is little I could have done with previous quads.

What would I look at?

Motors secure? Have you tried props off and tried running the motors up?

Re checked IMU for secure ness and facing forwards (or as described on WKM assistant)..Is it as close as you can mount it to the CofG? Is the assistant showing any problems?

Prop rotation correct as per Wkm instructions and props correct way up etc.

Calibration, including compass etc.

For me the most likely is in the assistant there are two quad rotor settings, quad rotor 1 and quad rotor X. Triple check this is at its easy to programme the incorrect on (I did this on my hexa, which also has two configurations V and I - it handled in a similar way to yours)...

I hope that you get it sorted

Regards

Rich

Thanks for the reply Rich,
I've pretty much have all the points you raised covered. WKM is all correct, including IMU mounting and orientation. GPS good, calibrated. Correct settings in assistant, but will double check when I have the craft in front of me tomorrow
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Thanks for the reply Rich,
I've pretty much have all the points you raised covered. WKM is all correct, including IMU mounting and orientation. GPS good, calibrated. Correct settings in assistant, but will double check when I have the craft in front of me tomorrow

Try dropping prop sizes. WKM like to spin them fast. I am lifting about the same if not a tad more on 13x6 and 5 cell. My motors are the DW AXi 680KW though.

There are quite a few on here flying this combo very successfully..

Prop alignments on coax are important.. I know there are alignment holes bit make sure prop tips are all the same in relation to a flat surface. half a tuen on a motor clamping bolt and means good few mm out at the prop tip, the bigger the prop the bigger the error!

Dave
 

cbuk

Member
Try dropping prop sizes. WKM like to spin them fast. I am lifting about the same if not a tad more on 13x6 and 5 cell. My motors are the DW AXi 680KW though.

There are quite a few on here flying this combo very successfully..

Prop alignments on coax are important.. I know there are alignment holes bit make sure prop tips are all the same in relation to a flat surface. half a tuen on a motor clamping bolt and means good few mm out at the prop tip, the bigger the prop the bigger the error!

Dave

Thanks Dave for your input...really appreciated. Like I hinted in the OP, I assumed alignment would be ok and havent check yet. If only a half turn too much or too little on the clamping bolts is enough to cause misalignment then I'd be surprised if mine werent misaligned. I'll check tomorrow and report back.
 

cbpagent72

Member
I'm having a few problems with a new coaxial skyjib X4 build (6S, 4014-11's, 15 x 4.5, approx 8.5 kg). I'm thinking/hoping the problem may lie with the motor and propeller alignments which I plan to check tomorrow. For now, I'm just scouring the internet for any relevent info. Any pointers as to what else may be causing my problems would be really appreciated...a crash today has dented my confidence somewhat.

The X4 flies OKish in still conditions but is horrific in any wind....kinda defeats the object of having the coax! The lack of control in wind is so bad that it resulted in a very hard and sideways landing today and 4 broken propellers.
The problem is that when confronted with any wind (gusts being especially bad) the craft starts wobbling and oscillating badly; when this happenes I have also noticed the engines make a kind of pulsating “vroom vroom” noise with a frequency of just under a second or so, rather than the constant whirring sound. Like I say, when its out of the wind it hovers and flies fairly well although by no means perfect.

I've changed the gains from low to high and back again, but this seems to have little effect so I dont think this is the controlling factor in my problem.
The WKM sensor unit is securely fasten with the standard DJI 3m foam tape on the top plate (which has the rubber stand-offs).
GPS and IMU offsets are setup and gps reception was good at test location.

I had previously thought that because both the top and bottom engine mounts of the X4 both have locator pins that fit into predrilled holes on the booms, the engines and propellers would by default be aligned. The same goes for alignment of the booms between the boom clamps. I will check tomorrow and hope I do find that they are out of alignment, because if the alignment is OK then I dont have a clue what the problem is.

Would possible alignment errors in my X4 build be sufficient to cause the problem I'm having? Because everything thing is predrilled, its hard to see how the misalignment could be large enough to cause the problems I have?

Any help or suggestions would be really appreciated because after today exploits I feel a tad deflated.

Cheers

I'm sure you are aware that the Droidworx retail three flavours of Skyjib: Skyjib 8, Skyjib 6 and Skyjib X4. Its not my bloody fault they decided to call their coaxial model X4. Some advice instead of pedantic name nit-picking would be appreciated.:upset:

Don't get worked up about what Iris Aerial says. I don't think I have ever seen a positive post from him on here. I am sure there are some but when he puts his two cents in he is usually criticizing not congratulating.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 

ary

Member
check :
- your esc's calibration.
- bolts on motor motor mount. if it too long, too close to coper wires(pict shown), it will interfere motor performance(unstable rpm)

Im using 4014 11 kv 330 with 17 inch Tprop, it flew perfect

ary

I'm having a few problems with a new coaxial skyjib X4 build (6S, 4014-11's, 15 x 4.5, approx 8.5 kg). I'm thinking/hoping the problem may lie with the motor and propeller alignments which I plan to check tomorrow. For now, I'm just scouring the internet for any relevent info. Any pointers as to what else may be causing my problems would be really appreciated...a crash today has dented my confidence somewhat.

The X4 flies OKish in still conditions but is horrific in any wind....kinda defeats the object of having the coax! The lack of control in wind is so bad that it resulted in a very hard and sideways landing today and 4 broken propellers.
The problem is that when confronted with any wind (gusts being especially bad) the craft starts wobbling and oscillating badly; when this happenes I have also noticed the engines make a kind of pulsating “vroom vroom” noise with a frequency of just under a second or so, rather than the constant whirring sound. Like I say, when its out of the wind it hovers and flies fairly well although by no means perfect.

I've changed the gains from low to high and back again, but this seems to have little effect so I dont think this is the controlling factor in my problem.
The WKM sensor unit is securely fasten with the standard DJI 3m foam tape on the top plate (which has the rubber stand-offs).
GPS and IMU offsets are setup and gps reception was good at test location.

I had previously thought that because both the top and bottom engine mounts of the X4 both have locator pins that fit into predrilled holes on the booms, the engines and propellers would by default be aligned. The same goes for alignment of the booms between the boom clamps. I will check tomorrow and hope I do find that they are out of alignment, because if the alignment is OK then I dont have a clue what the problem is.

Would possible alignment errors in my X4 build be sufficient to cause the problem I'm having? Because everything thing is predrilled, its hard to see how the misalignment could be large enough to cause the problems I have?

Any help or suggestions would be really appreciated because after today exploits I feel a tad deflated.

Cheers
 

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dazzab

Member
I may be repeating myself here. I would be very surprised if the alignment was out on a SkyJib. Everything is 'keyed' to make sure it's in perfect alignment. Having said this, the motor mounts are keyed just with a small bump at the bottom that fits in to a hole on the arm. You'll know what I'm talking about if you built it. Anyway, I've had these bumps break off in a crash and then yes the motor can be misaligned. Grab you motor and give it a gentle twist. If it moves, then something is not right. Properly in place the motors and arm simply can't move at all.
 

cbuk

Member
Well I checked the alignment of the motors and propellers today and sure enough....they were out. Both of the first two arms I tested were very close to alignment so by the time I got to the third arm I was getting a bit nervous that I hadnt identified the problem. On the third arm the misalignment was about +- 3 mm (total difference of 6 mm from tip to tip) and the fourth arm the misalignment was closer to +- 4 or 5 mm. Now with those figure I'm not surprised I was having problems in any challenging situations.

Replacement props didnt turn up until late in the afternoon so I havent tested the craft again but I have every faith (maybe foolishly) that this will solve the problem. Hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to get her up in the air again and see whether the problem has been solved.

Cheers for the input and help everyone, especially Droider whose explanation on propeller alignment (which I found in an old thread) was a great help...
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Well I checked the alignment of the motors and propellers today and sure enough....they were out. Both of the first two arms I tested were very close to alignment so by the time I got to the third arm I was getting a bit nervous that I hadnt identified the problem. On the third arm the misalignment was about +- 3 mm (total difference of 6 mm from tip to tip) and the fourth arm the misalignment was closer to +- 4 or 5 mm. Now with those figure I'm not surprised I was having problems in any challenging situations.

Replacement props didnt turn up until late in the afternoon so I havent tested the craft again but I have every faith (maybe foolishly) that this will solve the problem. Hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to get her up in the air again and see whether the problem has been solved.

Cheers for the input and help everyone, especially Droider whose explanation on propeller alignment (which I found in an old thread) was a great help...

Dose she fly now?

Dave
 

cbuk

Member
Dose she fly now?

Dave

Yes Dave, things are a lot better. Its been mainly calm conditions so hard to tell but yesterday was a bit windier! I took her up in winds of about 15mph, gusting to 25mph and she stayed in the air; a bit twitchy in gps mode as it battled to maintain position but much more stable in Atti. After my last experience in strongish winds it was nerve wracking at time, but definitely a whole lot better than before.
 

Make sure you do the motors up tight, I had an issue with week where i realised the motor mounts had slipped, maybe they have been bumped in transport or in the office. But they had slipped badly and there was a 10mm difference tip to tip. which cause ccw motors to pull triple the amps of the cw motors. Glad I noticed it while i was testing.
 

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