Beginner Seeking Advice [Aerial Film/Photo]

[Motopreserve]

With the gimbals it's all about the weight. If you have a pocket can that is similar in weight to a gopro, that just might work. It cones down to weight distribution and balancing. Also, the motors have to be bold enough to handle the weight - which is why you see gimbals specifically designated for certain cameras (weight/size).

Honestly, as a photo/movie guy, you probably won't be totally happy until you take the leap to 4:3 or DSLR, so the gopro should be able to do everything you need initially - especially the 3 or 3+. I had the hero2 forever and have finally upgraded to the 3+ black - and they have stepped up their game for sure. Definitely allows for more post-production.

In terms of soldering: take a look at this video series. I'm a recording engineer so I've soldered more than I care to remember - but I thought there were some cool tricks/tips in here.

 

[Mikerodrig27]

I know you're already pretty much set on those three. I ordered the Tarot Iron Man 650. frame because it is upgradeable to a hex and also upgradable to 680mm.

The F550 is a solid choice though. Come to think of it, if you decide to upgrade the F550 to a heavy lift, wouldn't it just be smarter to get a whole new frame? An example would be this:

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/tarot-fy680-cf-folding-hexacopter-p-810.html

Does the heavy lift kit come with ESCs? The DJI comes with 15 amp ESCs which won't power those motors. The $39 motors and the frame come out to $305 which gives you a really good platform.

They're not that expensive. Also, the F550 heavy lift kit charges $74 for a motor. I Googled "2814 700kv" and the first link was this SunnySky (very good brand) for only $39:

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/v2814-11...or-for-quadcopter-multi-rotor-quadcopter.html

Last thing I promise. The Storm Gimbal looks like a nice unit but you could get the Tarot T-2d for the same price with the controller. I don't know what the difference in cost between the RTF F550 with and without the gimbal but if it were 150ish, I'd check out the T-2d as it looks like a more refined gimbal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tarot-T-2D-...918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a84e0df56

 

[PCMAerial]

I know you're already pretty much set on those three. I ordered the Tarot Iron Man 650. frame because it is upgradeable to a hex and also upgradable to 680mm.

The F550 is a solid choice though. Come to think of it, if you decide to upgrade the F550 to a heavy lift, wouldn't it just be smarter to get a whole new frame? An example would be this:

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/tarot-fy680-cf-folding-hexacopter-p-810.html

Does the heavy lift kit come with ESCs? The DJI comes with 15 amp ESCs which won't power those motors. The $39 motors and the frame come out to $305 which gives you a really good platform.

They're not that expensive. Also, the F550 heavy lift kit charges $74 for a motor. I Googled "2814 700kv" and the first link was this SunnySky (very good brand) for only $39:

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/v2814-11...or-for-quadcopter-multi-rotor-quadcopter.html

Last thing I promise. The Storm Gimbal looks like a nice unit but you could get the Tarot T-2d for the same price with the controller. I don't know what the difference in cost between the RTF F550 with and without the gimbal but if it were 150ish, I'd check out the T-2d as it looks like a more refined gimbal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tarot-T-2D-...918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a84e0df56

I'm actually a HUGE fan of the Tarot models. All of their folding hex's look amazingly sturdy. The reason I stopped looking into them was mainly from an assembly standpoint. I do believe I can assemble a rig after hours/days of work, but for the Tarot frames I have had a hard time locating exactly what I need parts-wise to have a model ready to fly after assembly. So many options! Not enough time! Although I've been researching for months, reading forums until my eyes hurt. I told myself I would make a decision by noon today it's now 3pm EST. Help me!!! lol

Seems like any of these will be a decent choice, just need to make a move.

Valuable info!!! Thanks alot

 

[Mikerodrig27]

From what I've read the Tarot frames are really nice. I got two of the quadcopter 650 frames shipped for $218 on Ebay. There are a ton of builds on here. Read up on one and bu their parts list. I'm the type that has to tinker with everything so a RTF kit was out of the question for me. I'm having parts shipped to me for a build right now that Ecalc says will work for 18 1/2 minutes with a GoPro+ gimbal. If I can find a light pancake lens it will lift my Canon T1i for 10-14 minutes. The DSLR will be for photography so I'm going to try to make a setup that will be lightweight.

Granted I spent $1000 but that's with an extra motor, Wiring, propellers, ESC and Frame. Crossing my fingers that it actually works.

 

[Motopreserve]

As much as I can relate to you being excited about making a purchase, make sure you don't jump the gun. You'll appreciate the time you spent on the back end.

That being said - you seem resigned to the idea of being able to update instead of upgrade. Hopefully the difference makes sense to you. It's very hard to explain the difficulty in choosing a few parts to slap on an existing model to make it into a whole new craft, without you having an MR in front of you, and a few months experience (at least!) of flying it. That's the only true way you'll be able to decide what YOU like and prefer.

The tarot is a better choice to actually upgrade your main craft with fewer parts. The f550 seems like a good choice that you can update to make into a better MR than stock. My hope was that you'd decide you could make it a great gopro lifter and have another down the road that is more efficient at lifting a larger camera. Keep in mind you're not going to want to keep swapping gimbals on a single craft after you have it tuned perfectly.

The DJI route will most likely get you in the air the quickest. The tarot would be a more adaptable MR for long term use. Either way you're spending more money down the road.

 

[PCMAerial]

From what I've read the Tarot frames are really nice. I got two of the quadcopter 650 frames shipped for $218 on Ebay. There are a ton of builds on here. Read up on one and bu their parts list. I'm the type that has to tinker with everything so a RTF kit was out of the question for me. I'm having parts shipped to me for a build right now that Ecalc says will work for 18 1/2 minutes with a GoPro+ gimbal. If I can find a light pancake lens it will lift my Canon T1i for 10-14 minutes. The DSLR will be for photography so I'm going to try to make a setup that will be lightweight.

Granted I spent $1000 but that's with an extra motor, Wiring, propellers, ESC and Frame. Crossing my fingers that it actually works.

Nice setup. If it can hold a t1i that's definitely around the payload I'm looking for in a hex. May need to look further into this build

 

[Motopreserve]

Check your inbox.

 

[PCMAerial]

As much as I can relate to you being excited about making a purchase, make sure you don't jump the gun. You'll appreciate the time you spent on the back end.

That being said - you seem resigned to the idea of being able to update instead of upgrade. Hopefully the difference makes sense to you. It's very hard to explain the difficulty in choosing a few parts to slap on an existing model to make it into a whole new craft, without you having an MR in front of you, and a few months experience (at least!) of flying it. That's the only true way you'll be able to decide what YOU like and prefer.

The tarot is a better choice to actually upgrade your main craft with fewer parts. The f550 seems like a good choice that you can update to make into a better MR than stock. My hope was that you'd decide you could make it a great gopro lifter and have another down the road that is more efficient at lifting a larger camera. Keep in mind you're not going to want to keep swapping gimbals on a single craft after you have it tuned perfectly.

The DJI route will most likely get you in the air the quickest. The tarot would be a more adaptable MR for long term use. Either way you're spending more money down the road.

Valuable info sir. I guess I shouldn't be so stuck on one way or the other. I am quite flexible with this purchase, more or less looking at the budget more than anything. I know I want some sort of hex, and after months of research I think I'm making it MORE complicated than it should be now, lol. SO I don't want to jump the gun, but I (Believe) the results are down to these few rigs, considering budget. Definitely aware that I will likely crash, break, upgrade, etc anything with this type of flying machine.

With that being said, at the end of the day I would love to have a dedicated heavy cam rig, and light cam rig in the future. And I know it will be $$$ well spent.But right now with my $800ish budget...

I'm looking for the most "Universal" rig for gopro through small nex style camera using the same frame. With updated components as needed. I'll figure out the gimbal and camera situation after I have REALLY mastered the GoPro for practice. This seems to be the best way to go from what I've learned on this website. I've tried to put together a Tarot kit on Helipal and it surpasses my budget every time with all the parts, and shipping. Where as on UAVmotors I can get a full F550 kit for around $800 shipped with Naza Lite, Devo 7 transmitter, GoPro gimbal.

 

[wonkdonk]

Hi all,
I'm in a similar position to you PSMAerial, but I'm an editor who's moved into filming (can't blame the cameraman now!).
I shoot mainly adventure and travel type shows. We've used full-sized helis in the past - hanging out of one with the doors off shooting a light aircraft flying over a glacier is definitely the highlight of my career so far - but it's not often that the budget stretches that far.
So here I am, looking for a way to get into UAVs, to get the shots we want, with the money we have.
I've ordered a little Hubsan X4 to practice with and start learning some of the skills I'll need with a larger machine.
Like you, I'd ultimately want to to use DSLRs (but will probably settle for a GH3). But I'll start off with a GoPro rig.
Having read as much as I can, I'm leaning more towards the Phantom 2 with the H3-2D gimbal. Whilst I love tinkering and am happy wielding a soldering iron, my thinking is that I need to become familiar the basics of flying these craft before I'm ready to make the leap to the much more expensive hexa/octo that I'll want to use professionally in the longer term. By then I'll, hopefully, understand my needs more and can make a more informed choice of components. That's the theory anyway!
I also take on board the suggestion of finding a mentor - as soon as I move back to the UK in the summer, I'll be offering my coffee-making services to some of the pros on here.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough, I can't wait to buy a rig, but I'm doing my best to be patient!
Good luck with your purchase, and keep us updated on how things go.

 

[chipwich]

The DJI route will most likely get you in the air the quickest. The tarot would be a more adaptable MR for long term use. Either way you're spending more money down the road.

No truer words spoken. The hard part is getting it past the finance manager. :tennis:

Another misconception that I had was that the Phantom is a toy. I wouldn't think of owning one, that is until my brother bought one on impulse. After I'd taken a turn at the sticks, a light came on and I realized that it was more about getting in the air and filming with minimal headaches. With the H3-2D or 3D gimbal, it's a pretty capable platform. I think that most of its criticism comes from people who've been in the hobby for a while, paid their dues, but haven't really flown one. As far as fly-aways, which even though I haven't had one or know of anyone that has, I will say that there is enough evidence that some people definitely have had one. There are ways to mitigate fly-aways, and be prepared to recover by switching to manual mode (not programmed out of the box). Another nice feature is that a Futaba transmitter will bind directly to a NAZA FC.

 

[Motopreserve]

To put some perspective on it(and hopefully NOT make Aerial more confused!) - you can have a Tarot Hex for somewhere in the range of roughly $700-$900. Granted this doesn't include a Tx/Rx, but that was not included in the other options either, correct?

My example (rounded up):

Frame (680Pro): $190
Motors (SunnySky 3508-580kv): $230
ESC: 90
FC (Naza M V2 w/Compass): $300
Props (non-carbon, 4 extra): $80

Grab some cheaper motors that people have had success with on this frame/setup (Multistar) and the Naza Lite and you save even more. In my opinion this rig would be a step above the f550 (no matter how much you like the DJI platform, this would be more capable if done correctly).

Frame (680Pro): $190
Motors (Multistar 3508-580kv): $186
ESC: 90
FC (Naza M V2 w/Compass): $170
Props (non-carbon, 4 extra): $80

Don't mean to throw a wrench in the works...

 

[PCMAerial]

To put some perspective on it(and hopefully NOT make Aerial more confused!) - you can have a Tarot Hex for somewhere in the range of roughly $700-$900. Granted this doesn't include a Tx/Rx, but that was not included in the other options either, correct?

My example (rounded up):

Frame (680Pro): $190
Motors (SunnySky 3508-580kv): $230
ESC: 90
FC (Naza M V2 w/Compass): $300
Props (non-carbon, 4 extra): $80

Grab some cheaper motors that people have had success with on this frame/setup (Multistar) and the Naza Lite and you save even more. In my opinion this rig would be a step above the f550 (no matter how much you like the DJI platform, this would be more capable if done correctly).

Frame (680Pro): $190
Motors (Multistar 3508-580kv): $186
ESC: 90
FC (Naza M V2 w/Compass): $170
Props (non-carbon, 4 extra): $80

Don't mean to throw a wrench in the works...

--

Great talking earlier thanks for everything man!!

So far on a Tarot Build I've been able to find, using these two websites (Please help for any additional US websites, shipping from China is a ton)

www.Buddyrc.com
www.Hobby-Wing.com

1 Tarot FY680 Pro Frame ($190)
6 Tarot 620kv / 4006 Brushless Motor ($179.88)
1 Walkera Devo 10 Channel Transmitter ($150.00)
1 Naza M Lite ($169.95)
8 T Motor CF Props 11x5.5 ($59.80)
6 Hobbywing Platinum 30A ESC ($155.40)

~$905.03 before shipping
No batteries for rig or controller, no gimbal. So I'm getting close to max budget.

Any ideas for other/more affordable parts? Any other retailers? Alternatives? These sites seemed to be my only luck. Shipping costs add a good bit, seen some US sites with cheap/free shipping but not many with these parts IN stock


Thanks so much!

 

[Motopreserve]

I think those props are too small. You probably want larger fkr the lift capability. Look for 12 or 13". Also, the T-Motor props are usually pricey. Make sure that price is not for one!

FRAME

Hobby wing is china, correct?

 

[PCMAerial]

I think those props are too small. You probably want larger fkr the lift capability. Look for 12 or 13". Also, the T-Motor props are usually pricey. Make sure that price is not for one!

FRAME

Hobby wing is china, correct?

You are the man Scott!! Looking into the larger props now. These said "A Pair" so I assume two in one package? So I got 4 (2 extra props).

THANKS for the frame on that site! Hobby-wing seems to be China, definitely not USA or local. Any other sites I should be checking on? Would love to get this rig at my budget around $900, but I can't seem to source the right parts and price to fit in the budget, with overseas and shipping. Will keep looking!!

 

[Motopreserve]

Check out this place for ESC. He sometimes takes a while, but his prices are killer. He also has some good extras (wires, battery monitors etc).

He has his own version of the f-30a (which is a staple) but with better components. They're $10/each. For another $4/each you can get OPTO with the filtering removed, apparently better for pancake style motors.

Id id look at the sunnysky for the motors. Not much more. Also, they have an x series with very similar specs that is a bit cheaper. Buddyrc for those.

 

[chipwich]

1 Walkera Devo 10 Channel Transmitter ($150.00)

For a transmitter, I highly suggest the FrSky Taranis in that price range. Great quality and features for the price, not to mention a bunch of telemetry options, an available ImmersionRC EZUHF module that plugs into the back to combine 2.4 and 433 in one radio, and my favorite feature...the ability to assign speech, music or other sounds to switches and/or functions. I'm in the process of converting my fleet to all FrSky Taranis. It's really helpful to hear which modes you are switching to while having your goggles on or setting up a shot. The receivers are about a third of the price of the competition. You can customize, mix, and test your setups on a PC, then upload to your radio.

Not that the Devo 10 is bad, especially if you dump the firmware for Deviation (custom open source firmware), but the Taranis is da bomb. They can't make them fast enough. FWIW.

 

[PCMAerial]

Check out this place for ESC. He sometimes takes a while, but his prices are killer. He also has some good extras (wires, battery monitors etc).

He has his own version of the f-30a (which is a staple) but with better components. They're $10/each. For another $4/each you can get OPTO with the filtering removed, apparently better for pancake style motors.

Id id look at the sunnysky for the motors. Not much more. Also, they have an x series with very similar specs that is a bit cheaper. Buddyrc for those.

Do the motors need to be 580-620kv? Is 2300kv too small

 

[Mikerodrig27]

If you're trying to go for efficiency you should be looking at 13" props. The one downfall about the 680 hex is that you are limited to smaller props with more motors than the quad (bad for efficiency good for redundancy).

You're going to have to run 4s batteries with that motor. Two 5000mah 13" props should net you 17 minutes of hover time. 7 1/2 minutes of mixed flying with gimbal and go pro

A tarot 650 quad which would weigh around 400g less in the frame and minus two motors with 14" props with the same batteries would net you 22 minutes hover time with 9 1/2 mixed. Check out the Turnigy multistar 3525 650kv on HobbyKing.com The reviews are mixed but the specs are nice. Otherwise there is the similar Tiger Motor 35xx 650ish kv motor that is really nice.

 

[Motopreserve]

The best flight times I've seen for this frame have been with the 3508-580kv or 700kv sunnysky. 2300kv would be way to much RPM for this build. I have no experience with the tarot motors. Mike mentions the same motors I had listed in the post earlier. But as he's noticed some mixed feedback, and so have I - it might be safest to steer toward a better reputation motor.

With 580kv the 12x3.8 prop actually specs as more efficient. The 13 will be good too.

there is a guy over on rcgroups getting close to 20 minutes on this build. I'll get tired before that MR does!

If you can swing THIS radio - it might be worth trying for.

 

[Jaybeast]

Hey PCM,
Did you buy anything yet??? Thought I'd toss in some unsolicited $.02 and tell you about my experience.

First, you are correct on one of your earlier points about this forum - it is invaluable! So many helpful professionals willing to give their time and knowledge.

Secondly, like you I am a professional image maker (still photography for me) and wanted to get into the air with a MR for new perspectives and to advance my craft. The choices are overwhelming and while it's really easy to want to breeze through the tech side of this, I suggest taking a breath. Make some good choices based on the info on this and other forums because it will save you time and money in the long run.

My first MR was an ARF quad from 3DRobitics. Now while I felt like I did my due diligence prior to my purchase, I should have waited a bit. I spent more time tinkering than flying thanks to a couple of factors - 1. my inexperience and 2. working with an open system. Lots of updates to firmware and code that often times undid what I recently thought was a stable code set. Anywho... I moved onto an F550 and really enjoyed getting my hands "dirty" with the build. Totally comes in handy for troubleshooting down the road.

My stock 550 was a great machine to learn on. I added a Gaui Crane 3 gimbal for my Sony Nex5N and it flew really well. Solid in the air. Only downside was the flight times were crap - 4-5 minutes of minimal mixed flight time (mostly hover) on a 3S 4000mah, 10" props and AUW of 5.85 lbs. Aside from the stock machine, battery, gimbal and camera with pancake lens, I added FPV equipment (camera, tx, 1100mah lipo and cables). That's all included in my AUW.

So after flying the 550 for about 1.5 yrs, I've recently upgraded my F550 with the ReadyMade RC aluminum arms (making it a 650ish) and some Cobra motors from Innov8tive Designs. The AUW with new arms, motors and 1 lipo is 6 lbs. 10 oz. and my flight time is 7 minutes on the same 3S 4000 mah lipo and 12x4.5 props. My goal is to run two 3S 4000mah in parallel (AUW 7lbs 5oz.) and hopefully get 12-14 minutes of flight. I actually meant to test this tonight but forgot the cable. Doh! The cost for the arms and motors was about $500. Yes it was a lot for a minor increase in flight time. It was kind of an expensive test. I figure the next step for me will be a much more expensive rig to carry a dslr but that's in the area of at least $4-7k.

And that's my point and that of others here. Make sure you're not shoehorning yourself into something you'll outgrow soon but also make sure you take the time to learn all there is about the geeky side of this.

So I'm not sure if this helps or not but just wanted to chime in as someone who was in the same boat. Oh and another good tool is AeroSim flight simulator. Runs on a PC and definitely helps get used to flight controls.

Good luck!

J.