Batteries

[Av8Chuck]

I'm moving up the food chain from 4S to 6S and would like your opinions on which batteries you like and why.

Currently I have Turnigy nano-tach 6.0 4S 50c batteries on a medium sized quad with 13" props and 77oKV motors. I've had them less than a year but have had no problems with them. I was looking at the 6S equivalents and they have 5.0 (5000mAh) with either 50c or 90c rated and about a $20 difference. These batteries will go on Y6/Hex MR with 475KV motors and 15" props. Do I need the 90c rated battery?

I was also thinking that there doesn't seem to be a penalty in weight between running two 5000mAh batteries verses one 10,000mAh battery and if I need to fly a heavier payload for a shorter amount of time I always have the option of flying on one 5000Mah battery. Is there a benefit to purchasing the larger batteries?

What are the good brands to consider and which brands should not be considered? Anyone know of any good deals on 6S batteries?

 

[jes1111]

IMO two (or even three or four) batteries is always better than one - if you suffer a cell failure in flight there's a chance that the other battery (or batteries) will get you to the ground safely.

There's little need for the higher C batteries - you're never going to get even close to that sort of discharge rate (more like 10-15C). The higher C rating means the battery will be heavier than the lower rating but, in compensation, the output voltage should be flatter.

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

Well, I know I always say this but GensAce are just awesome. Great quality. I personally go for around 40C lipos as I find them longer lasting, and in my mind it's best to use over rated components and give them an easy time by under utilising them.

 

[Quinton]

IMO two (or even three or four) batteries is always better than one - if you suffer a cell failure in flight there's a chance that the other battery (or batteries) will get you to the ground safely.

There's little need for the higher C batteries - you're never going to get even close to that sort of discharge rate (more like 10-15C). The higher C rating means the battery will be heavier than the lower rating but, in compensation, the output voltage should be flatter.

Would love to hear more of your thoughts on this Jes

I am starting to lift heavier weights now with gimbal camera, and normally when I fly without payload using 6S lipos I usually land and about 22V to be on the safe side..gets me about 14-15 mins flight time.
After I land the V go up to around 22.5
When I charge I used to put about 5200 mAh back into my 8300s

Lately with the payload I am landing at the same 22V but once on the ground it goes back up to around 22.7V, and getting just over 7 mins, but when I am charging I am only putting about 36-3700 back in.

I am using 35C lipos, now with the extra weight am I being a bit too conservative landing at 22V?
Its a lot of moneys worth under there and I want to get it right "without" learning from a mistake on this one.
How far can it be "safely" pushed.

 

[PeteDee]

Agree with all the above, lower C rating will do what you want but a better quality pack will last better. i have found the standard Turnigy Blue packs to be a good compromise, 25-30C will be fine especially running a 6S rig. I am flying with guys that have modest 12S setups in 700 size heli's, many use dual 6S Turnigy packs and give them a bit of a belting and they keep on giving. HK also have some Zippy Compact branded packs that I have been using in smaller sizes that are very good and lighter weight and nice pricing.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21373__ZIPPY_Compact_5000mAh_6S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

 

[Quinton]

Agree with all the above, lower C rating will do what you want but a better quality pack will last better. i have found the standard Turnigy Blue packs to be a good compromise, 25-30C will be fine especially running a 6S rig. I am flying with guys that have modest 12S setups in 700 size heli's, many use dual 6S Turnigy packs and give them a bit of a belting and they keep on giving. HK also have some Zippy Compact branded packs that I have been using in smaller sizes that are very good and lighter weight and nice pricing.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21373__ZIPPY_Compact_5000mAh_6S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

Equivalent 5200 35C Desire ones here in the UK are £87.50, that one is £32.10, which includes a discharge plug!
Makes you think.

 

[kloner]

i landed on and like gens ace but i wouldn't hesitate moving on to tattu, i'm still trying to get funds together for some to try...

out of all the packs at hk, the turnigy branded packs work best, the compact turnigy are kinda weak so if it's a drinker then i'd go blues,,, if it's efficient the yellows will work

 

[Quinton]

i so if it's a drinker then i'd go blues,,, if it's efficient the yellows will work

I bl**dy love your posts, a bit hard to understand sometimes as I am in the UK, (not even sure that's the reason) but what the heck
Time to experiment with other lipos rather than Desire.

 

[kloner]

my crew calls it talkin kloner...haha

 

[jes1111]

Would love to hear more of your thoughts on this Jes

I am starting to lift heavier weights now with gimbal camera, and normally when I fly without payload using 6S lipos I usually land and about 22V to be on the safe side..gets me about 14-15 mins flight time.
After I land the V go up to around 22.5
When I charge I used to put about 5200 mAh back into my 8300s

Lately with the payload I am landing at the same 22V but once on the ground it goes back up to around 22.7V, and getting just over 7 mins, but when I am charging I am only putting about 36-3700 back in.

I am using 35C lipos, now with the extra weight am I being a bit too conservative landing at 22V?
Its a lot of moneys worth under there and I want to get it right "without" learning from a mistake on this one.
How far can it be "safely" pushed.

I don't think you can be "too conservative" - this is all about reliability - the less you stress everything, the better its going to last. You do what makes you happy (or, at least, doesn't make you nervous)

 

[kloner]

I'd highly recomend keeping on that path with the voltage part, the heavier the load the less pack i like using up to give a margin in the flight envelope like your doing

We fly epics on gens ace and see almost a volt in sag, i'll fly it down to about 21.5 at about 6 minutes and land at 22.3-22.5 ish, half packs used. my hex has a bit less sag with all the same but u series stuff, and i do about the same numbers,,,,, were on 20 amp hours of 6s in pairs parralel

the math for a c rating is suppose to be c rating times capacity equals continuous amp rating.... 10 amp hour 30c pack is 300 amp service...

doing pairs of packs vs single packs is a huge weight difference and cutting every gram is the best way to go... nothing in excess

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Check out the new Hobby King high-energy-density LiPos. The green ones marketed for Multirotors. They are about 20-30% more energy dense than the 20C Turnigy's, which themselves are a little better than a 65C rated battery.

I've got a set of 4 on their way to me, can't wait to try them.

 

[Av8Chuck]

I want to use a 3S gimbal controller, is it better to get an additional battery or some kind of voltage regulator or step down from 6S to 3S? If so what would that be? Also, if I had some sort of voltage regulator that went fro 6S to 3S would it also work with 4S to 3S?

 

[Av8Chuck]

Check out the new Hobby King high-energy-density LiPos. The green ones marketed for Multirotors. They are about 20-30% more energy dense than the 20C Turnigy's, which themselves are a little better than a 65C rated battery.

I've got a set of 4 on their way to me, can't wait to try them.

Have you received you new batteries? I search on the Hobby King website for those batteries but didn't find them, what are they called?

 

[gtranquilla]

The higher the energy density the better for VTOL aircraft ....... its all about minimizing weight and maximizing energy for MRs.
Several local MR flyers continue to rave about their ThunderPower batteries on their MRs and it seems to me that they do last a long time per flight.
I just bought 2 x 10Amp 6S 30C Kapoms - apparently the manufacturer of the DJI supplied batteries for their S1000 etc.
But have not tried them yet!

Check out the new Hobby King high-energy-density LiPos. The green ones marketed for Multirotors. They are about 20-30% more energy dense than the 20C Turnigy's, which themselves are a little better than a 65C rated battery.

I've got a set of 4 on their way to me, can't wait to try them.

 

[gtranquilla]

Check out the new Hobby King high-energy-density LiPos. The green ones marketed for Multirotors. They are about 20-30% more energy dense than the 20C Turnigy's, which themselves are a little better than a 65C rated battery.

I've got a set of 4 on their way to me, can't wait to try them.

R_Lefebre...Are these the ones you are looking at? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_4S_5200mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

Too bad they don't make them in 6S 30C and over 6000 maH....

 

[Old Man]

Why is it everyone seems to overlook the Max Amps batteries? I understand China products are cheaper but the best battery performance I've obtained to date have been using Max Amps. Their stuff was also selected over any other to power a pretty high end UAV normally driven using a gas engine in exploration of electrical propulsion systems. The numbers provided by Thunderpower make it appear their energy density is higher than Max Amps but reality hasn't supported the claim.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

R_Lefebre...Are these the ones you are looking at? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_4S_5200mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

Too bad they don't make them in 6S 30C and over 6000 maH....

Yes, that's them.

As for 30C, well, this is the issue. You can't have high energy density, and high C. They are mutually exclusive. It has to do with how much of the battery mass is dedicated to current capacity, and how much is dedicated to power storage.

Why is it everyone seems to overlook the Max Amps batteries? I understand China products are cheaper but the best battery performance I've obtained to date have been using Max Amps. Their stuff was also selected over any other to power a pretty high end UAV normally driven using a gas engine in exploration of electrical propulsion systems. The numbers provided by Thunderpower make it appear their energy density is higher than Max Amps but reality hasn't supported the claim.

I tend to overlook components that are high cost, unless they are proven to be worth it with reliable engineering data. I've never seen this data on batteries. A lot of people say "you get what you pay for", but I don't buy that normally. Sometimes prices are set high, just to achieve a certain market position, not because they are better. Which is the battery manufacturer which was advertising 60C batteries, that actually were only good for something like 5C continuous? It was a big name, with expensive batteries...

Turnigy batteries have worked well for me for low price, so I stick with them until I see something better. Manufacturer claims don't cut it.

 

[gtranquilla]

Life is simply too short for us to invest the time required fully understand the complexity, subtle nuances and intricacies of battery electro-chemistry...... which is part of the reason why we may perceive we are being mislead by manufacturer's false claims.
Toyota was able to work through a lot of these issues with their hybrid control system by better matched load to the battery so as to extend the battery life to ten years or longer..... and part of that solution was to implement dynamic braking. It not only extends the driving range but also reduces depth of discharge and helps to keep the battery electro-chemistry in or closer to the optimum sweet spot for a greater percentage of the time. Also Mikrokopter recently implemented dynamic braking into their new ESCs for similar reasons.


Also see item 10 of the following Duracell hotlink... http://media.ww2.duracell.com/media...2011 October - Ten Things you should Know.pdf

Also attached is a very good article on the critical importance of C rating relative to overall battery life..... http://www.maac.ca/docs/2013/lipo_b...e_max_current_draw_true_crating__rev3_toc.pdf

 

[stevemaller]

I'm a big fan of Tattu and Pulse 6S batteries. Tattu and Gens Ace are the same, and it looks a lot like Pulse (from HeliDirect.com) are made by them, too. The larger ones (10000+) seem to be in perpetual backorder everywhere, so it's good to have some alternatives. As for dual vs. single, I much prefer dual for a number of reasons. Redundancy, additional power, balance, and redundancy.

Oh, did I say redundancy twice? :nevreness: