Thank you for the link. I want to buy the 10900, not the 11000, but I'll definitively check on forums about the results people have with them.
http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/what-batteries-are-you-using.228/page-4#post-3966
SkyJib Octocopter for Filmmaking with RED Epic
- Thread starter DCDK
- Start date
Thank you for the link. I want to buy the 10900, not the 11000, but I'll definitively check on forums about the results people have with them.
http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/what-batteries-are-you-using.228/page-4#post-3966
Benjamin Rowland
Member
You may want to check with Hoverfly if those Maytech ESCs are compatible. I know the Turnigy Plush ESCs work because I use them. I've also read that the Castle Creations ESCs work with the updated firmware from CC.
nicwilke
Active Member
I dont want to offend you, but your comment that you cant make money out of thin air is completely wrong. What you are infact doing is sending money into thin air, with a fail rate that can be scary. With no experience in flying, or building, you want to put together (yourself) a highly complex flying robot, learn to fly it, stick and expensive camera on it, and fly in 4 weeks? I'd suggest getting a pro in now to buy some time, and continue to learn more. There is not given answer for your questions, everyone is different.
Just be careful, as I've been building multirotors for over a year now, and failure is certainly something to provision for. Perhaps add to the list, a ballistics parachute from Photohigher also.
Last edited by a moderator:
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
For your own good, heed the politely couched warnings coming from others with experience. My post was deliberately hard-edged because I am concerned that you are ignoring the warnings from others and taking this whole idea too lightly. You will notice that the responses are more warnings now than encouragement of your lists.
Here are some facts. Indisputable, time-proven facts.
You will not build the perfect machine the first time around
The 'perfect machine' does not exist
You will spend considerably more money than you initially anticipate
It will take considerably longer to acquire usable aerial footage than you initially anticipate
It is HUGELY more complicated than simply assembling a little kit and going into business
Your machine WILL crash.
The bigger the machine, the more extensive the damage, the more expensive the repairs.
You came here for assistance so LISTEN to people and SLOW DOWN. Build something to crash, repair and learn first.
Hi Benjamin,
thank you for the info. I'll take the TURNIGY Plush 40amp Speed Controller.
Cheers
David
Hi,
as stated several times, I'll not fly the octocopter (for these projects) nor will I assemble it. Both will be done by experienced people, and the pilot will get some additional training. I'm just here to spend the money:tennis:
Cheers
David
SMP
Member
One final thought, have you considered subcontracting this first shoot to an experienced professional multi-rotor aerial crew? Most of the previous posters are Commercial AP/AV providers and would be able to guarantee your client both usable footage and Insurance against PD/PL Public Damage/Public Liability.
If it seems you touched a nerve, please understand that you have not only asked Professional Builders for their blueprints (which they have graciously given you, in detail), you have indicated your team is prepared to fly without what most would consider a reasonable amount of time for training and practice. The fact that you have indicated that a severely limited budget leads me to assume that Insurance protecting your Client will not be a part of this shoot either. If you do not have the Rate built in which would cover the cost of subcontracting it means you are likely undercutting. I can only speak for myself but I appreciate that there is a forum with professionals who are willing to share this level of detail, insomuch as I believe this level of informal support will be as valuable as the Aerial platform itself long term. It is my sincere hope that I don't alienate them personally, that I don't damage their businesses professionally as I enter the market and most of all I hope that NO ONE has a video camera and a you tube account (see above) if I make a mistake in this uncertain period of FAA Regulation.
My point is simply this. Your actions, my actions, affect each and every one of us directly. Please consider subcontracting.
(Bartman, please feel free to delete if post is unwarranted)
If it seems you touched a nerve, please understand that you have not only asked Professional Builders for their blueprints (which they have graciously given you, in detail), you have indicated your team is prepared to fly without what most would consider a reasonable amount of time for training and practice. The fact that you have indicated that a severely limited budget leads me to assume that Insurance protecting your Client will not be a part of this shoot either. If you do not have the Rate built in which would cover the cost of subcontracting it means you are likely undercutting. I can only speak for myself but I appreciate that there is a forum with professionals who are willing to share this level of detail, insomuch as I believe this level of informal support will be as valuable as the Aerial platform itself long term. It is my sincere hope that I don't alienate them personally, that I don't damage their businesses professionally as I enter the market and most of all I hope that NO ONE has a video camera and a you tube account (see above) if I make a mistake in this uncertain period of FAA Regulation.
My point is simply this. Your actions, my actions, affect each and every one of us directly. Please consider subcontracting.
(Bartman, please feel free to delete if post is unwarranted)
I considered contracting operators with an octocopter when the project was planed, but due to contracting cost of above 4kUSD, I got interested in a purchase.
I will never risk the health of people, and I've seen enough irresponsible behavior on sets not to go down this road. I can understand all your warnings and don't take them lightly.
nicwilke
Active Member
My flight controller cost $1500. My frame $1600. My motors and speed controllers $600. My gimbal and stabilizer $1000. My batteries $1500. My Radio controller $650. My public liability insurance $800. My propellers $300.
My spares on hand $500. My charge station $400. My video Downlink and ground control station $400.
I'm set up to lift a little handycam. Best of luck getting a Red Epic rig for $4K. No disrespect, but your budget needs doubling to do It properly.
You do know that renting and buying are different? After using the octocopter for these projects, I either have spent 4.5kUSD and have no octocopter or spend 8kUSD and have an octocopter or, of course, have spend 8kUSD and have a lot of small broken pieces.
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
That's the spirit! You will definitely need a sense of humour. Of course, don't forget the Camera hire shop who will have the flat RED.
On a more serious note, you have omitted the other scenario. Spend 8kUSD (actually it will be closer to 10k), delay the project further because you need more time, then discover that the footage doesn't cut it and spend another 4.5kUSD to get it done properly.
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
Unfortunately, this scenario is virtually guaranteed.
Actually, you might want to consider the Hobby King F-40A as they are widely considered to be better than the Plush. They have an Atmel chip so you can flash them with SimonK, which is also made easier because they have pads in a row. They are all N-fet for efficiency, and they have an external oscillator for more reliability.
And this is why you need way more time to put into this than you are. You are heading down a nightmarish path that will consume all of your available time.
Holy crap. I'm so glad I stick to my "cheap Chinese junk" instead of spending big money on crap like this. I can't believe MaxAmps actually put that in writing. They have basically just said their batteries are junk, and they employ false advertising. Unreal.
redridinghood
Member
I would not place expensive cargo under flashed esc. The flashed esc are more likely to fail.
For peace of mind only Castle creations ice series is suitable. And Herkules III ofcource.
For peace of mind only Castle creations ice series is suitable. And Herkules III ofcource.
Last edited by a moderator:
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
More likely to fail, based on what data? A search for "Simonk ESC fail" turns up nothing interesting. A search for "Castle ESC fail" turns up just stacks and stacks of postings, videos, and recall notices.
From what I've seen, I won't touch anything from CC. I've seen way too many catastrophic failures, sometimes leading to an electrical fire which consumes the entire helicopter. No thanks.
This here is sweet. CC blaming GensAce packs for being low quality. Who to believe? Just keep writing the cheques...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1603986
Any data on the CC's? Do they have external oscillators? All N-fet or P/N-fet?
From what I've seen, I won't touch anything from CC. I've seen way too many catastrophic failures, sometimes leading to an electrical fire which consumes the entire helicopter. No thanks.
This here is sweet. CC blaming GensAce packs for being low quality. Who to believe? Just keep writing the cheques...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1603986
Any data on the CC's? Do they have external oscillators? All N-fet or P/N-fet?
Last edited by a moderator:
redridinghood
Member
A reflashed esc is pushed harder and all the safety features turned off. Some hardware have different tolerances some fail some do not.
A CC esc at least would be working under it's intended load.
A CC esc at least would be working under it's intended load.
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
Ok, well that's a reasonable hypothesis. I haven't seen any evidence that there is any issue, however.
Now, as to the "being pushed harder" part... in what way? Do you mean because they respond to a throttle change instantly, instead of filtering the input? I'm not sure that's really any issue at all. Or was it something else?
Safety features turned off? Well, the low-voltage-cutoff is turned off. But I consider turning it off an additional safety feature, not at safety feature removal. Or was there something else?
Patscherpofel
Member
flashed esc can stall certain motors on certain voltage/cell combinations...never heard of any problemes on big copters (the stalls happen mostly with the smaller pancake motors)
but one motor stall on an octo shouldnt be too bad right? ...maybe somebody has different experience though
anyways...what I dont get from reading all this
which pilot in the world can fly a heavy lifter and is not even able to choose the correct prop size for a certain motor? why dont you ask your pilot to order the stuff..he would be stocked to fly the gear he is choosing, right?
or would you be into flying components that are put together by somebody else who googled for a few weeks
but one motor stall on an octo shouldnt be too bad right? ...maybe somebody has different experience though
anyways...what I dont get from reading all this
which pilot in the world can fly a heavy lifter and is not even able to choose the correct prop size for a certain motor? why dont you ask your pilot to order the stuff..he would be stocked to fly the gear he is choosing, right?
or would you be into flying components that are put together by somebody else who googled for a few weeks
anyways...what I dont get from reading all this
which pilot in the world can fly a heavy lifter and is not even able to choose the correct prop size for a certain motor? why dont you ask your pilot to order the stuff..he would be stocked to fly the gear he is choosing, right?
or would you be into flying components that are put together by somebody else who googled for a few weeks
You don't have to have experience reading reviews and discussions about RAID controllers and server components to select a rather well working setup. But you should know for sure what you do when building it all together and especially configuring it in an environment where data security is crucial:tennis: Anyway what I want to say is that I have the time (or rather my time is cheaper) to do the research, the others don't, so I do as much work as possible before handing it over.
Did this happened to you? And are you sure problem is only with SimonK firmware? And which version? Pancake motors should be fine running these days with simonk firmware, but problems may occur not only with flashed escs.
Redridinghood: Can you please tell more what reliability issues you are talking to? "More likely to fail"? are you serious? I have never had a single issue with simonk flashed escs, and i have been running 6 sets of them with different brand esc:s in different builds. Neither i have heard any issues with others if just used with commonly used HK blueseries or F-30A/F-40A ones. I have only had problems with esc brands own firmwares like with maytechs, but after flashing they have been working flawlessly too.
Last edited by a moderator:
R_Lefebvre
Arducopter Developer
Yes, there's that issue too, but I'm not running pancake motors, so no issue there. And yes, my Octo flies perfectly with one motor gone.
My impression from reading this thread is that... it's just another person high up on the "peak of inflated expectations" who will soon fall down into the "trough of disillusionment". (How many people get that reference?)
Ok, so it would cost $4000 to rent somebody to do the job. But then you will be left with no "hardware" after the job is done, only the results of the work you paid for which hopefully are satisfactory. Somehow this seems like a "bad investment" to some people. They would rather spend $8000 to buy the hardware, and 100's of hours building it and trying to fly it, and they will end with a bunch of smashed parts, and no usable footage. I fail to see how that is a better outcome.
I'm not suggesting that nobody should get into this business. But that's just it: You get into the business. You do not buy the hardware with the goal of accomplishing a job. It doesn't work like that. It's going to take a LONG time, and LOTS of broken copters to figure out how to do this properly.
And I don't think simply buying a turn-key aircraft is a solution either. The hardware is only half of the problem. Learning how to fly safely and effectively is another. Buying a turn-key airframe will only get you down into the trough of disillusionment *faster*. It also teaches you nothing about the craft of maintaining and repairing these things. That is something you WILL have to learn to do at some point.
Rather than seeing systems integrators (turn-key aircraft vendors) showing "successfully delivered airframes", I'd love to see them showcase the results of their customers. I've never seen anything like "I built this for a customer, and here's what they went out and shot with it."
People don't buy drill bits because they want a drill bit. They buy a drill bit because they want a hole. I see a lot of drill bits being sold in this market, and not a lot of holes.
If you want to get into the market, buy some affordable hardware, and get to work learning how to build and fly. The job will get done when you have learned enough to do it. But buying expensive hardware, expecting to be able to deliver a product on a deadline is doomed to failure. It's like the script from so many reality TV shows. <Dun dun dunnnnn> "Will they solve the problem before the deadline? Find out, after the break!"
My impression from reading this thread is that... it's just another person high up on the "peak of inflated expectations" who will soon fall down into the "trough of disillusionment". (How many people get that reference?)
Ok, so it would cost $4000 to rent somebody to do the job. But then you will be left with no "hardware" after the job is done, only the results of the work you paid for which hopefully are satisfactory. Somehow this seems like a "bad investment" to some people. They would rather spend $8000 to buy the hardware, and 100's of hours building it and trying to fly it, and they will end with a bunch of smashed parts, and no usable footage. I fail to see how that is a better outcome.
I'm not suggesting that nobody should get into this business. But that's just it: You get into the business. You do not buy the hardware with the goal of accomplishing a job. It doesn't work like that. It's going to take a LONG time, and LOTS of broken copters to figure out how to do this properly.
And I don't think simply buying a turn-key aircraft is a solution either. The hardware is only half of the problem. Learning how to fly safely and effectively is another. Buying a turn-key airframe will only get you down into the trough of disillusionment *faster*. It also teaches you nothing about the craft of maintaining and repairing these things. That is something you WILL have to learn to do at some point.
Rather than seeing systems integrators (turn-key aircraft vendors) showing "successfully delivered airframes", I'd love to see them showcase the results of their customers. I've never seen anything like "I built this for a customer, and here's what they went out and shot with it."
People don't buy drill bits because they want a drill bit. They buy a drill bit because they want a hole. I see a lot of drill bits being sold in this market, and not a lot of holes.
If you want to get into the market, buy some affordable hardware, and get to work learning how to build and fly. The job will get done when you have learned enough to do it. But buying expensive hardware, expecting to be able to deliver a product on a deadline is doomed to failure. It's like the script from so many reality TV shows. <Dun dun dunnnnn> "Will they solve the problem before the deadline? Find out, after the break!"