Yet another first build. Input, anyone?

[numpsy]

Hey,


I'm a complete newbie with quadcopters, and I am seriously considering building one using the f450 frame. Like so many people before me, I would really appreciate some input around my possible build.


Since this is my first quad, I dont want to spend an enormous amount of money (since I will probably crash it in a some horrendous way ) so most bang for the buck is what I am looking for.


At the beginning, I will use this quad to learn how to fly properly. I am not looking for any fancy aerobatics later on either. However, I will want to connect my Sony HDR-AS15 action cam to it (eventually on a gimbal, but thats some time in the future). FPV is also something I can see myself wanting, and probably a GPS.
So what I am looking for is a good platform to start with, and one that I will be able to build on in the future.

These are the major parts I've narrowed it down to (of course - they might be all wrong):

Frame:
F450

Esc:
Turnigy Plush 30 amps (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__2164__TURNIGY_Plush_30amp_Speed_Controller.html)

Motor:
Turnigy D2836/9 950KV
Turnigy D2830-11 1000kv
SunnySky x2212-980kv (There's also SunnySky A2212 980, but I dont know if they are any good for quads?)

Which motor is better? According to ecalc, the sunnysky would give me longer flight time and higher payload capacity than the Turnigy D2836. However, ecalc is quite daunting for a beginner and I am not sure I have used it correctly.
I am leaning towards the D2830-11 though.


Battery:
ZIPPY Compact 4000mAh 3S 25C


Flight Controller: Well, I am kind of on the fence here. On one hand - I want to get flying as soon as possible, so the KK2 seems to be a popular (and cheap) choice. However, that does not support GPS.
The MultiWii PRO Ez3.0 does have the option to add GPS later on, but it seems a bit more advanced and complicated to get into the air.
Both of these FC's are basically the same price.


I guess what I am having the most problems with is making sure that everything fits together to get as good prestanda as possible withing this price range.


If someone has any input or thoughts regarding this, I would be very grateful!


Thanks in advance,


Numpsy

 

[jbrumberg]

Transmitter?

 

[SoCal Blur]

Just out of curiosity, have you flown any type of multirotor? You mentioned that you will use this build to "learn how to fly." I would recommend learning to fly on a $60 RTF micro/mini quad before beginning your build. It will be the best $60 you have ever spent in you really want to get into flying mulitrotors. Once you have mastered the micro quad, you may have a totally different perspective on how you want to approach your first build.

 

[Motopreserve]

The multiwii is not tough to figure out as long as you're remotely comfortable with a computer. There is a GUI that you need to use and might make a few changes with the arduino program. It's definitely much more expandable, but of course with that comes time for tweaking.

Learning to fly on the mini quads is good advice. It will give you the hang of the controls. But once you fire up the larger quads it's a whole new ball game, regardless of how much you've flown the mini.

Check out the nano-tech batteries. People around here love them. Seem to get good reviews.

also, if you're going with the turnigy stuff - buy an extra motor and ESC, just to save heartache and hassle if something doesn't work or you happen to crash.

 

[numpsy]

Thank you all for your input, it has given me stuff to think about.

I have flown a Hubsan X4 a little. I think it is a good way to practice flying, but I also imagine that it is completely different flying a larger quad outdoors?

 

[Motopreserve]

Flying the larger quads is VERY different. There is just something more intimidating once the whirring of the larger motors kick in, it shrinks the size of the space you're in instantly!

Keep up the research and ask all the questions you need to - you'll be flying before you know it.

 

[SoCal Blur]

They are different, but if you haven't learned to fly a min quad successfully in a figure 8 pattern, for example, where the controls reverse, then you are just increasing your chances of a crash in the bigger quads.... at least in manual mode. Some FC's with GPS assistance actually make it easier to fly the bigger quads but that can also be a crutch. I still think it is important to be proficient flying micro/mini quads before attempting to fly the bigger machines.

 

[Motopreserve]

They are different, but if you haven't learned to fly a min quad successfully in a figure 8 pattern, for example, where the controls reverse, then you are just increasing your chances of a crash in the bigger quads.... at least in manual mode. Some FC's with GPS assistance actually make it easier to fly the bigger quads but that can also be a crutch. I still think it is important to be proficient flying micro/mini quads before attempting to fly the bigger machines.

Agreed. I don't think you can substitute getting these basic skills down before taking on something that can potentially be much more dangerous if handled irresponsibly. The key is to recognize that just because you're a wizard on a mini doesn't mean you should forget that there's a learning curve when you step up to the larger quads.

Also, while the GPS and various flight modes can help with direction and aide flight, if (when???) those things fail or randomly switch off, it's vital to be comfortable in ACRO mode to get the craft back safely.

As far as your choices go: I messed with eCalc a bit - and if you up your battery size to 5000mah, and lower the ESC to a 20A type, you can get decent flight times with the Turnigy D2830-11 motors. The big difference will be between prop size, where you will get more lift with the 9" prop, but less flight time, and less lift but more fly time with an 8" prop. The fact that you could grab a few sets of each and swap them depending on what type of flying you'd like to do (practice light flight or video lifting) could make it fairly flexible. The 9" may give you a little high throttle for hover - but depending on weight etc, that may balance out.

 

[SoCal Blur]

Agreed. I don't think you can substitute getting these basic skills down before taking on something that can potentially be much more dangerous if handled irresponsibly. The key is to recognize that just because you're a wizard on a mini doesn't mean you should forget that there's a learning curve when you step up to the larger quads.

Also, while the GPS and various flight modes can help with direction and aide flight, if (when???) those things fail or randomly switch off, it's vital to be comfortable in ACRO mode to get the craft back safely.

I think we are in agreement. :tennis:

 

[Motopreserve]

We are indeed. I was just mentioning the differences, because when I first fired up the larger quad - after feeling pretty confident flying my mini, I was terrified by how the space I was in (which felt HUGE just before the props started spinning) shrunk to the size of a pea when I realized the power of the larger quads. Also, everything seems stuck in molasses compared to the mini. The flight control is a whole different ballgame on these large quads.

Mine is heavy though (1700+ grams), and it seems like numpsy's one would come in at a decent, manageable weight.

 

[numpsy]

Very good points from all of you....but...but... I just want to fly!

On a more serious note: I realize being able to handle a mini quad is a good (necessary?) foundation to be able to handle the larger quads. But it also feels really constricted in having to fly the mini indoors, in a kind of small room with furniture. It doesnt feel "real", if you understand what I mean.

 

[Motopreserve]

You are correct - very constrained indoors, but that also builds skills. The incentive to avoid breaking your belongings is high

It sounds like you have practiced with the mini already - get to building! You can always keep up the practice on the small quad as you build...or more accurately, as you wait for parts!

 

[jbrumberg]

Flying indoors is constricting, I have DR & EXP settings for indoor flying just to slow things down enough on the Tx to make things somewhat manageable. Flying indoors is not "real", but in reality there will be obstacle avoidance flying outdoors as well. Scott is right once you throttle up a larger size quad, the surroundings tend to constrict in around that quad. Practice flying is not "real" either. I get tired of doing all those banked circles and figure 8's all the time, but until I can do them perfectly forward and then be able to do them in reverse I think I need to keep on practicing.

 

[SoCal Blur]

Very good points from all of you....but...but... I just want to fly!

On a more serious note: I realize being able to handle a mini quad is a good (necessary?) foundation to be able to handle the larger quads. But it also feels really constricted in having to fly the mini indoors, in a kind of small room with furniture. It doesnt feel "real", if you understand what I mean.

Why are you restricted to flying indoors? I've flown my mini outside and it's a lot more realistic. Granted, you have to wait for a day when there isn't a lot of wind, but on those days you can get in some good, quality practice.

 

[jbrumberg]

Why are you restricted to flying indoors? I've flown my mini outside and it's a lot more realistic. Granted, you have to wait for a day when there isn't a lot of wind, but on those days you can get in some good, quality practice.

I agree.

From what I've read a Hubsan X4 should do "OK" outside. Probably better handling than my mini's. I prefer calm to no wind conditions, but will accept and fly in light and variable winds up to 3mph. I can fly in winds up to +5 mph but after that it's more wind surfing/porpoising and not really any fun; one step ahead of being completely overpowered and being blown away or crashing.

 

[numpsy]

Living in the northern parts of Sweden makes it a bit too cold and snowy to stand outside. I also live on the Baltic coast so it is pretty windy. That said, flying outdoors in the summer would probably work fine on a less windy day. But we are still a month or two away from warmer temperatures.



Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

[SoCal Blur]

Living in the northern parts of Sweden makes it a bit too cold and snowy to stand outside. I also live on the Baltic coast so it is pretty windy. That said, flying outdoors in the summer would probably work fine on a less windy day. But we are still a month or two away from warmer temperatures.


Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

Well that explains it. What about going to a local school gymnasium?

 

[numpsy]

Well that explains it. What about going to a local school gymnasium?

That is a good idea, hadnt thought about that. Worth looking into!

Meanwhile, I think I will start ordering bits and pieces while practicing using the hubsan x4 to get ready for the summer season.

 

[jbrumberg]

If it weren't for the wind, I'd be doing a lot more outdoor flying with my mini sized quads. I can handle light snow with a poncho I made for my Tx. I've winterized the quads and take some precautions for condensation when I bring them back indoors. 5F/-15C is my personal record for outdoor flying. The unofficial "record" to my knowledge for a mini at RCG is -17F/-27C. 1S LiPo's do not like this degree of cold. I get ~3-4 minutes on a 600mAh LiPo when I usually can get ~11 minutes during saner fight temperatures. I have yet to make a koozie for my batteries. A noble project for the current and anticipated Winter weather around here.

Stay warm numpsy, and good luck finding a warm place to practice. A local group of flying enthusiast around this area rent out the local indoor high school soccer stadium one evening each week this time of year. It's a little too far away for me.