Y6 vs X8 octa. Which is better for smooth video recording and redundancy?

Mactadpole

Member
Actually, I've sold most of them as I come up with new ideas of what my ideal copter would be. I now have a really nice FPV quad, my original X8, and another X8 I am working on (slowly) as a backup. I would have stuck with hexa but the lack of redundancy just sucks. I did notice you say you are considering a hex-12, why not just a heavy-lift flat octo? The CineStar8 can carry a RED just fine.
 

Richk

Member
As you said redundancy. While I'm not fling with a Red , I am going to be flying with Canon's answer to it and the weight is about the same. I'ts not my camera so I really don't want to crash it and one of the shots the want me to get (though I haven't agreed to it yet and I'm hoping they won't be able to get the permits) is about a thousand feet in the air in a major city to get a pull back of a skyscraper. So I want to know that if I do shoot that shot and loose a motor I can bring it back down to earth in one piece and not like an object falling from outer space. I don't think a flat 8 will do that with a camera that big
Actually, I've sold most of them as I come up with new ideas of what my ideal copter would be. I now have a really nice FPV quad, my original X8, and another X8 I am working on (slowly) as a backup. I would have stuck with hexa but the lack of redundancy just sucks. I did notice you say you are considering a hex-12, why not just a heavy-lift flat octo? The CineStar8 can carry a RED just fine.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
What is an XY-8?

MBF,

Early on I decided I'd enjoy things more if I had back-ups in place to help deal with failures so I settled on 8 motors as my standard. I liked the open view of the Y-6 though and was also frustrated with all the motors and props in my video shots when I was trying to fly forward into a wind with the camera mostly straight ahead. I got the idea to build a coaxial quad with 120 degrees across the front motors like a Y config. but with 120 across the back as well so it's also an X config. I sorta jokingly called it an XY-8 and it still seems like the best way to describe it.
I built a small one initially and used it to see if the MK FC could be happy with assymetrical motors and it was fine. Emowillcox built one also from my frame plates but he put 120 degrees across the front and the normal 90 across the back. His WKM flew it fine.
I've since designed and built 2 1/2 different versions of the frame and Rev 3.0 will be cut next week. With my Rev 6 (also due back from the shop next week) camera mount I can rotate my T2i with the 10-22 lens (set at 12) from about 30 degrees nose up to straight down with no props or motors in view. I can fly rather quickly straight ahead, into the wind, feet off the ground looking straight out and not get props, booms, or motors in the shot. On top of it, the flattened X format is very compact and I can easily put the whole shebang on the back seat of my Honda when I leave the house.
I'll be posting a small batch of RTF packages for sale to see if anyone is interested in what I've been up to. I should have formal pictures and be ready to go in about two weeks. I'm working on a video compilation to show what they're capable of.
Thanks,
Bart
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
As you said redundancy. While I'm not fling with a Red , I am going to be flying with Canon's answer to it and the weight is about the same. I'ts not my camera so I really don't want to crash it and one of the shots the want me to get (though I haven't agreed to it yet and I'm hoping they won't be able to get the permits) is about a thousand feet in the air in a major city to get a pull back of a skyscraper. So I want to know that if I do shoot that shot and loose a motor I can bring it back down to earth in one piece and not like an object falling from outer space. I don't think a flat 8 will do that with a camera that big

flying in a major city to 1000 ft without the assistance and blessing of the FAA is commercial suicide. 400 ft is a good altitude to respect in a general sense and without coordinating with local air traffic control facilities you'd risk being a threat to manned helicopters which can overfly populated areas much lower than 1000 ft.
 

Mactadpole

Member
flying in a major city to 1000 ft without the assistance and blessing of the FAA is commercial suicide. 400 ft is a good altitude to respect in a general sense and without coordinating with local air traffic control facilities you'd risk being a threat to manned helicopters which can overfly populated areas much lower than 1000 ft.

I was going to say the same thing. "They" need to rent a real heli to be safe. Heck, it would probably be cheaper.
 

Richk

Member
That is why I said they would have to get all permits including the FAA. They may be able to pull it offbecause the film board carries a lot of weight and for sure if they don't have permits I'm not going to fly. The tallest building are about 750" and they want an aerial shot of that,but that shot might be best left to a full size heli. Sorry I'm not sure if I asked you this already
Bart which do you think would be safer you xy8 or a flat octo with a motor out and which of the 2 would be more stable in wind
flying in a major city to 1000 ft without the assistance and blessing of the FAA is commercial suicide. 400 ft is a good altitude to respect in a general sense and without coordinating with local air traffic control facilities you'd risk being a threat to manned helicopters which can overfly populated areas much lower than 1000 ft.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
i think any Okto would fly about the same with a motor out. I don't know about the other flight controllers but I think the Mk would be fine regardless of what the configuration is.
stable and smooth in the wind is tough to quantify. If you want to fight the wind and try to hold dead set over a fixed point I don't think anything will be absolutely smooth with a gusting breeze blowing. if can drift though and use the wind to help frame your shot and where the kopter will go as it's shooting then the wind effects can be minimized regardless of configuration. I like my layout as I can fly into a wind without the arms coming down into the shot as I'm leaning forward. I was out last week trying to help a friend get a good shot of the front of his house for a listing video. When I tried to pull back and hold fixed over his property as I climbed to show the bay in the distance I got a lot of chatter and stuff as the wind was stiff. If I let the kopter wander downwind (toward the bay) as I climbed it was much smoother. SOme people have been surprised at the amount of wind I'll fly in but the kopter is very controllable although the video isn't always what I wanted.
Bart
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
That is why I said they would have to get all permits including the FAA. They may be able to pull it offbecause the film board carries a lot of weight and for sure if they don't have permits I'm not going to fly. The tallest building are about 750" and they want an aerial shot of that,but that shot might be best left to a full size heli. Sorry I'm not sure if I asked you this already
Bart which do you think would be safer you xy8 or a flat octo with a motor out and which of the 2 would be more stable in wind
You might have an easier time getting permission from a neighboring building to go on the roof and shoot from there. you might be able to get something resembling aerial video if you can track the camera smoothly enough .
 


MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
With the same size props a flat 8 will give more lifting power than an X8 because, by the nature of the coaxial motor arrangement, the lower prop is having to deal with air that is already moving downwards quickly. But then the X8 booms are spaced further apart so you can use larger props. Bart has addressed the prop wash issue by installing a higher pitched lower prop.

On redundancy, don't forget the video we were all shown last week where one of the props on an X8 broke and then the broken bit went and broke its coaxial partner prop, thereby removing the whole drive on that boom in an instant, and flipping everything into the ground.

Bart's XY-8 arrangement is an innovative solution to keeping the 8x motor power, yet preventing the boom & props coming into frame, but for the highest degree of redundancy and lifting power it has to be a flat 8 with long booms and large props.

Alternatively, if you want to lift really heavy cameras, use a single rotor heli. They can still be fitted with all the stabilization electronics, can handle wind with less fuss, are very much more efficient with power usage and are a hell of a lot more convenient to transport.
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
I'll be posting a small batch of RTF packages for sale to see if anyone is interested in what I've been up to. I should have formal pictures and be ready to go in about two weeks. I'm working on a video compilation to show what they're capable of.

Thanks,
Bart

Bart you dark horse ;) Have you named your creations at all? Looking forward to seeing your video mate, if for no other reason than curiosity.

Ross
 

yeehaanow

Member
Disregarding the legal implications, flying at a 1000' and getting smooth shots is pretty much impossible without FPV in my book. Then add the wind up and around buildings...
Even an 800mm heli is a small dot.
This is not the type of shots RC AV was made for.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
.............On redundancy, don't forget the video we were all shown last week where one of the props on an X8 broke and then the broken bit went and broke its coaxial partner prop, thereby removing the whole drive on that boom in an instant, and flipping everything into the ground..............

i suppose that is a possibility but if you're not using props that are prone to breaking like some of the plastic ones then I would think you're reducing the possibility to near zero. interestiung scenario though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Richk

Member
As I had mentioned it's not something I'm looking forward to and if I were to do it it would be FPV . The risk is to high not only to me , but to the whole RC AP industy because if I were to fall from the sky at that weight it would do some serious damage and could bring us to the forfront os many government agencies. That is one ball that I don't want to start rolling. My son said I should fly from ontop of one of the buildings, my wife said I should design a parachute for it as a backup, but I think I'm going to let them get this shot another way and concectrate on the other (more normal ) shots that I have to do.
 

Vojec

Member
Thank you for your post Mactadpole. Rookie like me need for a start exactly that kind of info, for better understanding pros & cons for every different frame. If someone have some additional info, bring it on guys :).

I have had a quad, tri, hexa, Y6, and X8. In my experience - my hexa was pretty light but was super smooth, I never flew anything bigger than a Canon SX200 on it. I then went to X8 and once I went with full MK electronics it flies incredible. It is twice as heavy as the hexa and flies just as smoothly with a GH2 on an AV130 gimbal, AUW is ~4.8 kg. The Y6 was also a heavy copter but had a much more 'floaty' feel to it. It was very smooth but not as quick at responding to stick input and I'm pretty sure it was tuned well. Quad and tri were no where near as stable as the those listed above. Again, in my experience, my coax copters have been plenty smooth. And the redundancy factor is very nice and has certainly saved me a complete loss on one occasion. I would probably be really happy with a flat octo but they are just so big!

Vojc
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
...This is not the type of shots RC AV was made for.

Precisely. C.R.A.P.

Close Range Aerial Photography (unfortunate initials those) is for small r/c aerial platforms like helicopters and MR's because they can safely access the places close to the ground that a full size cannot go for reasons of size, noise, rotorblast, unbridled public terror etc. FPV of course expands the range but most of the time we are dealing with line-of-sight flying.

Taking this a few steps further, just because these drones CAN get up to really high altitudes, because of their semi-autonomous flight capabilities, does not mean that they should be deliberately flown up there. It'll all be fun until some unfortunate in a Cessna gets a drone through the windshield one day because the A-Hole drone pilot (particularly the long distance FPV'er) has no idea what else is in the sky. Then once more the many will have it all ruined by the few.


As I had mentioned it's not something I'm looking forward to and if I were to do it it would be FPV ...

Are you already familiar with FPV flying? It is not something you can just do by sticking on a pair of video goggles. Quite apart from the technical side of things where the transmitted video signal has to be absolutely bullet proof reliable, there is the actual piloting method to become comfortable with. It takes a huge leap of confidence first off to fly solely by goggles or monitor screen and in the case of goggles/video specs there is a certain amount of nausea to overcome that only passes once you have really become accustomed to the experience.

There are some unquestionably gifted FPV pilots around who of course make it all look easy, but it ain't as straight forward as it may seem for the uninitiated.
 

DennyR

Active Member
One also has to take into consideration the type of image that is being seen in the goggles. If the camera is solidly mounted then it's no problem, its like flying a real aircraft, but if it is stabilized in three axis then it can be difficult because you don't see the bank or the heading and pitch change. That is a two man job.
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
Hence why I have 2 seperate video downlinks, one for me (FPV) & the other for my cam operator. My idea of FPV with an octo is 500 mtr max!

Ross
 

I was wondering if Someone could take a look at this special offer that 3Drobotics is having and give me your thoughts https://store.3drobotics.com/products/y6-october-sale they have the Y6 and the X8 on this special and I was thinking of ordering as it comes with the Gopro Hero3 Black edition. But I dont want to make the wrong choice? and which would be the better choice if I did order the Y6 or the X8 thanks, Mike
 

jessej

New Member
I was wondering if Someone could take a look at this special offer that 3Drobotics is having and give me your thoughts https://store.3drobotics.com/products/y6-october-sale they have the Y6 and the X8 on this special and I was thinking of ordering as it comes with the Gopro Hero3 Black edition. But I dont want to make the wrong choice? and which would be the better choice if I did order the Y6 or the X8 thanks, Mike

I bought the X8 from 3D Robotics a week ago. Wanted to pick up from their sales office in Berkeley as happened to be in California but they ship from Tijuana, where the copters get made. Should get it in the UK within 2 weeks, will let you know how it fares
 

Top