XAircraft V2

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
So it seems that XAircraft have already released a new version of their flight controller and AHRS. I guess there really are problems with the EMI/RFI effecting how the GPS & compass works. Personally, I won't be making the upgrade anytime soon, if at all. I'm done jumping on the early adopters bandwagon for products that don't prove themselves in the first place. It's a shame that paying customers are actually beta testers when companies don't fully test products before sending them to market. If I conducted my work that way, I would be out of a job in no time flat.

I think I see a wookong-m in my near future. Anyone have any experience setting one up as an X8?

-Terry
 

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
Maybe I don't need to buy a WK-M after all... it appears that XAircraft is trying to build something of the same caliber. Not only do they have a new V2 model of the FC & AHRS, but they are now releasing a "Pro" version ( 1212-P ) that looks oddly enough like a WK-M. Check it out.

It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds.

a4404889-0-Complete%20set.jpg
 

DucktileMedia

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
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Tomstoy2

Tomstoy2

Member
Personally, I would stay the hell away from x/a flight controllers, period.
Don't mean to start a fght here, but in my opinion at least, they have released to many versions of their control system in the past, for my estimation. " Well, this one isn't working, so let's make another, see if it works ". No, had enough of that mentality with Feiutech, thank you.
Keep in mind this is all new stuff, WKM is less than a year old, but they have continually upgraded firmware to a tune of like 14 times since they released their WKM. At least they support their product.
Just things to keep in mind when spending your money.
 

Q

quadsaregreat

Member
It's very unfair to say xaircraft don't support the product Jingchen is always prompt at answering questions and issues I know that for a fact.
 

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
Good luck with that, Batfire. You must be the only person In the entire world that is happy with their V1 w/GPS. Ever use anything else?
 

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
You have to be on XAircrafts payroll. I know they pay off several people over at RCGroups to write favorable reviews. Of the 100's (if not 1000's) of people that I have seen testing the V1 GPS, only one ever got it working, and that didn't last more than a few weeks. XA doesn't even support it at all any longer because they admitted themselves that it didn't work.
 

Kilby

Kilby

Active Member
My apologies. I fully stand corrected, but being a user of rcg yourself, I'm sure you have seen the type of forum baiting I speak of. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes and I'm very happy that doesn't seem to take place here yet.

That being said, while your particular install may work great with your custom mods, I would still not say that the V1 gps works. When a company releases a product with a set of instructions, and following those instructions do not allow the product to work as advertised, it's a flop. If it only took a very slight mod, that would be 1 thing, but the steps you had to take to make that unit operate as expected were well beyond the normal limit. With the GPS mounted so far above the main body of the craft, I would call that a working experiment at best. Full proof that the unit suffers from lack of proper shielding.

Congrats on providing a great example of XAs V1 fail and what steps to take in order to get around it. You probably should get a check from them since you the sole person to fix their engineering blunders!
 

W

Warlock

Member
Kilby said:
So it seems that XAircraft have already released a new version of their flight controller and AHRS. I guess there really are problems with the EMI/RFI effecting how the GPS & compass works. Personally, I won't be making the upgrade anytime soon, if at all. I'm done jumping on the early adopters bandwagon for products that don't prove themselves in the first place. It's a shame that paying customers are actually beta testers when companies don't fully test products before sending them to market. If I conducted my work that way, I would be out of a job in no time flat.

I think I see a wookong-m in my near future. Anyone have any experience setting one up as an X8?

-Terry
Click to expand...

Yes sir, I " Upgraded " my X-650 V-4 to a V-8. A total waste of time and money, and have have wasted many many hundreds of dollars on parts because Xaircraft has some crap electronics and as has been said, you and I get to be un paid beta testers. I know someone will come back and say they have had nothing but the best possible out come with Xaircraft you could have. I sure didnt. And I have all the latest V-2 crap. New controller, new AHRS, new compass, new GPS and though heading lock and carefree modes worked pretty well, I rarely used carefree, saw no need. Return to home is usless and it should be called "Self Destruct" because it will never come back any where near it left from, and even though I lowered the gain for RTH to 30 from standard 50% when you engaged RTH the X-650 would rock over hard and rocket its self accross the sky to its death. If you switch it off seeing that its about to leave you all together, it rocks hard the other way, flips over and body slams its self to what ever is under it. Last time it was the top of a large tree. And it cant land its self, if it does work and comes back over your head, WKM and Naza do. If the battery gets low on the Xaircraft, it will fall from the sky, the WKM and Naza land when low battery is detected. Im 58 and had to climb my butt way up and out on a limb 20 feet up and hold on one handed while untangling the motor and esc wires from three snapped booms from around the branches. I just tossed the remains to the ground.

8 Motors was supposed to have redunantcy and I was told that it could lose a motor and still fly. Total and compleate BS!!! My fault, but after rebuilding it again for 4th or 5th time right after the tree thing, I failed to solidly connect one of the motors leads and two minutes into my first test flight hovering 4 feet up, the connection came loose, the motor quit, and it flipped over and crashed. All adding 4 more motors does is add weight, complication, and greatly lowers flight time. So V-2 crap is just that to me. I tossed the whole mess in my trash bin for wayward copters and quads. Nothing on it that I would want to re use on something else. I now have a DJI F550 hexa on the way, with the new Naza unit with GPS. Its $600.00 less than WKM, and does everything WKM does perfectly. Naza doent not have way point ability as yet WKM does.
 

W

Warlock

Member
Batfire said:
Hi Warlock

Man sorry to hear of all the problems with your quad. I have not tried the WK-M yet but may in future. I really don’t think I would be interested in the Naza gear due to all the complaints I see over on the RCG threads with copter just running away etc..... but all these controllers have issues even the 1,500,000 ones if you read the story on the copter drone that came back and crashed into the control van. That was really weird; I guess it killed all the controllers in the van. If you really want to be as safe as possible in this hobby I guess you have to go to fixed wing autonomous drones. They don’t seem to crash as much. When you’re dealing with flying bricks you are always the test pilot every single flight. This area of FC and drones is still taking baby steps. IF it isn’t the FC's it’s the esc's or the motors or the wiring etc........ Preflight is the most important one thing a pilot can do before flight. Being a pilot I follow these rules as I do with real aircraft and still the drone will flip and crash for no apparent reason. I chalk it up as part of the hobby. I think I am one of the best crash test pilots around. But I will say I learn from each post crash analysis I do.

Good luck with your copters
Click to expand...

Thanks very much sir. I have less than a thimbles worth of knowlege in this compared to you, and I value your oppinions. I will take a look at RCG and read up on the Naza. I have been on the fence as to which system to use. my brother has a Gaui 500 with Wookong and its never had a mishap, and flies beautifully. He as well just got a DJI F550 with the Wookong system and it too is awesome, has no issues, and instills confidence compleatly lacking in my self at this point. I have lot of helis, and a few planes and have a Turbo Ace 830, and a Walkera MX-400, "my first quad". I got the Xaircraft X-650 is V-4 form then converted to V-8. If I had your skills and knowlege I may have made something out of it. I may just go WKM and quit messing around. But even the shop selling me the 550 recommended the Naza set up with GPS for my use. A lot less expensive, but maybe worth it for piece of mind, your oppinion would be greatly appreciated.
 

W

Warlock

Member
Batfire said:
Hi Warlock,

I can help you all day long if you own a Turbo Ace 830. That is my testing platform. I will be using the X830 for all Fc testing including WK-M down the road after I am done with V1,V2 testing. I have found this to be a great platform with a large footprint. :nevreness: I really like the dynamically balanced motors. When you have this tuned up as in my tutorials you can barely hear the quad. All the tutorials I write are based on the X830 how to with compass, gps etc.... so feel free to stop by my blog. I update as often as I have things happening and when enough people ask the same questions over and over I will put together a Tutorial. My blog is located here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1670862

Speaking of FC's and what to buy, have you ever noticed as you browse through the sites that almost all the FC look alike? Did you notice they all seem to have the same functions but with different names? That is because they all are virtually the same controllers. When one company example XA comes up with a working prototype a bunch of the employees get together and take the prototype and research and run off and start another company. No kidding, it happens frequently in China but I won’t mention company names. I won’t mention them because it is blatantly obvious from looking at the different FC’s on the market from China. They don't have the same rules as the rest of the world I guess. Hence, this is why you see so much cloning. Even WK-M looks like they have this issue by looking at the YS-X6 system. Yes it works on wifi but that is just a quick electronic fix and wifi app. Did you know it also works on xbee and transmitter? You can do that to any FC but why??? In this case I think just to say they have a different FC and did not copy WK-M. Yeap and the checks in the mail, and I promise I wont.............you get the picture.View attachment 6888View attachment 6889View attachment 6887View attachment 6886
I will be picking apart all FC’s that I can get my hands on over the next year or two as my budget allows but I will say it again the FC V1 is a great unit as far as electronics go and the only real problem with it that I have not really shared on my blog etc.... is that it has a problem with what is called ground tracing. This contributes to the issues with EMI that cause havoc on this FC system. In my testing blogs I have shown how to get around this and get perfect dependable flights from this V1 controller with compass and gps. But you must set it up correctly. The V2 is still in the air. It is actually let it be known the same Fc as V1 ckt per ckt. It’s the software that changed. This is why the V2 and V1 are not compatible. You could actually load V2 with V1 firmware and it will work fine or V1 to V2. Its called the old, new improved rubber dog doo doo in different wrapper and different version name to keep you buying and hopefully stall you until they can figure out why it doesnt work right. Well it does work but maybe my answer is not as pretty as people would like but as I continue testing I will make it prettier to behold. :nevreness: I will stop there are go on for ever........
Click to expand...

With my lack of knowlege the most impressive factor with the X830 to me is the balanced beautiful looking motors. I never saw such great looking motors on any other quad, and the 35 amp ESc's are no slugs either. My X830 hit hard enough to break the 4 corner mounts of the controller, not at first but it slowly got worse. I have one motor broken off the support at the end, but the motor and mount are un touched, and the support is nothing to fix. I have the tall but rather spindly landing skids to clear the two axis mount that stupidly had me mounting the Go Pro under the mount nearly on the ground rather than in the mount. But thats what was called for. First time I lifted off with the camera and mount it raised up about 3 feet and flipped on its top. This caused the camera mount with all the weight at its farthest point to flip up and strip out the servo in a split second. Its been parked ever since.
 

W

Warlock

Member
Going with WKM on my DJI F550

I have been just about ready to buy the new Naza with GPS, but I just cant. I have been more than once bit and twice shy with heart breaking crashes that were not my fault in some cases. I would just feel better with DJI WKM and maybe even get a "warm fuzzy feeling" because of it :nevreness: And as well, my brother has had nothing but geat experiences with his, never a mishap, never anything close to a crash, and in winds that were way more than I thought even possible. I want to safe rather than sorry, cost regardless. Dissapointment has been most of what I know so far, Im ready for some fun. Who knows maybe even fly several batteries thru it and still bring it home in one ready to fly piece again. That would be brand new to me.
 

T

tazmoe

New Member
Batfire can I get your email address?

Hello Batfire,
I’ve purchased the X650-V8 version and have just completed my assembly. I bench tested it thru 2 battery cycles and made a test stand so it could fly up roughly 2 inches in height. It seemed to fly up ok and hold against the test stand but this was deceiving because it didn’t show how it was behaving. The first two outside flights have been discouraging I was just trying to get it to hover a few feet off the ground. No luck, in manual mode it seems to want to tip over and in GPS hold mode it flew off at an angle and I crashed it into a tree. My goal is to do aerial mapping using waypoints to create the flight path and do as little manual flying as possible.
Thank you in advance,
Robert
 
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W

Warlock

Member
Batfire said:
Hi Tazmoe

I am still doing some final testing on code so not ready to release it and not sure what implications it would have with Xaircraft since I have not talked to them so really don't want to release it until I have consulted with them. I don't even know if they will allow it but really I doubt it. That said, you need to do a lot of testing and get your copter straighten out before you could take on code anyway.

Sounds like you are having issues. I have a blog site you can visit and it walks you through what to do to get copter in peak condition before adding compass and gps. I assume by your problems you have V2 gear with autopilot. I have written all GCS software for V1 S-series not V2 P-series. I am working on V2 version now slowly as time permits but it is going slow due to so many issues I am finding with the flight control-AHRS unit. I haven’t even connected compass and gps autopilot yet due to this issue.

So far this V2 system I bought new on a RTF unit has been a complete piece of crap. I have found the V1 way more reliable and predictable but I will continue slowly finding out all the gremlins in this software. The software version is 1.36 and it has lots of problems and not predictability at all. One flight you’re ecstatic with the flight and the next flight you are lucky to get it down in one piece. I have been completely through the airframe components, tuning procedures even as far as to test esc individually and replace motors just to try to get this thing to fly right. I know for a fact it’s the software because I finally got so frustrated I swapped out FC systems and it flew fine with the other flight control system. It’s not the quad now that is the issue it is the (FC to AHRS V2) and I think I know why. They did a change to the AHRS so that it can do autogyro calibration when powered up. This seems to be causing erratic changes in AHRS but this is only a guess will have to investigate further when I have time to put it on an O scope.

The AHRS also has a problem in XA Center when you calibrate. If you are just connecting for example with AHRS only it works fine. If you have compass plugged in and connect to center and go to AHRS screen its dead. You have to recalibrate the AHRS before the screen will show anything about the AHRS. This is not right so this is first clue that software not programmed correctly. When you go out to fly FC-AHRS only first flight after calibration it flies great. Then after you power up again with new battery it is either pitching or rolling off one direction or other as soon as you go to atti mode. I have had it in Xa Center hooked up for and hour waiting to see AHRS drift and it is rock steady so that is another clue that it is the AHRS software most likely dealing with the autogyro calibration. Progress goes slowly.

I wondered why this wasn’t picked up by Wow Hobbies when they did the test flight video and after going back and examining the video I see where pilot was constantly correcting for it in demo flight. So this issue as stated was from day one with this quad and flight control.

So that’s where I sit for now. Please feel free to go to RCGroup and visit my blog. Remember to click on continue reading to continue to all tutorials.
Click to expand...


I wonder why Jeffery at Xaircraft who claims to be a major expert with anything Xaircraft has not figured this out as well? Had I known all this, I could have saved over $2000.00 easy. My X650 V-4 and later V-8 did like you described. One flight would be great. By great I mean only that I was able to hover it well, and cruise around a little, then land. If I could put it away to fly again just as it is, that was victory! Next flight, I most likely would be carrying the parts I could find to the shop for another rebuild. No way to go!

Batfire your knowlege is astounding, and your really doing some thing man. You would think that should you perfect your work and have repeated succesfull test flights to back up your code, Xaircraft would want to meet with you and cut a deal. Just a thought. :nevreness:
 

T

tazmoe

New Member
Batfire did you write the GCS from scratch?

Hello Batfire,
I was going to go with the DIY Drone software and hardware but the more I read the more it looked like the (Chinese DJI/XAircraft) had the basic flight and GPS fly to waypoints down. I read your blog and I thought I had learned enough to get the X650-V8 to at least hover in manual mode.I mounted the flight electronics on an EMI shielded board but I thought it may have made it to top heavy after the first flight attempt. So I lowered the GPS for the second flight but I did get enough time out of the flight to see if it made a difference. It seems way too sensitive to control input in manual mode. I turned the gains down to 40% thinking that would help but I didn’t get enough flying time to find out. I have seen plenty of videos of people flying the same craft and it seems to be responding fine. So maybe I just need a lot more simulator time before I try again. I thought I had enough to get it to hover but it starts going too fast for me to react properly. I think I want to try a tether on it next time I try it and limit it to maybe 20 ft. But that might end up it a ball of yarn after it tangles itself. Any suggestions?
Tazmoe
 

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W

Warlock

Member
Wow

tazmoe said:
Hello Batfire,
Did you start with some of the open source GCS software and get it to talk to the XAircraft electronics or did you write yours from scratch? If the former what GCS software did you start with? I was going to go with the DIY Drone software and hardware but the more I read the more it looked like the (Chinese DJI/XAircraft) had the basic flight and GPS fly to waypoints down. I read your blog and I thought I had learned enough to get the X650-V8 to at least hover in manual mode.I mounted the flight electronics on an EMI shielded board but I thought it may have made it to top heavy after the first flight attempt. So I lowered the GPS for the second flight but I did get enough time out of the flight to see if it made a difference. It seems way too sensitive to control input in manual mode. I turned the gains down to 40% thinking that would help but I didn’t get enough flying time to find out. I have seen plenty of videos of people flying the same craft and it seems to be responding fine. So maybe I just need a lot more simulator time before I try again. I thought I had enough to get it to hover but it starts going too fast for me to react properly. I think I want to try a tether on it next time I try it and limit it to maybe 20 ft. But that might end up it a ball of yarn after it tangles itself. Any suggestions?
Tazmoe
Click to expand...


Hi Tazmoe. I of course know you were talking to Batfire here, but I just cant help but ask the reason you mounted things the way you have? My other question is why are you using manual mode? I ask because everything I see here is nothing like I have seen before. You certainly seem to be knowlegable, and If I can learn something it would be great. Manual mode is generally not used in my experience, since you have just basically turned it into a 4 channel helicopter with no gyro. All inputs would be exaggerated and require constant control inputs in all directions to just keep it in the air, hovering would be harder, not that any of this is un do able if you have lots of stick time. I wonder why you mounted the GPS and the rest of the electronics up where you did? I include a couple pics of my X-650 V-8. My GPS uses the mount made for it to fit the back of the machine and it lays low. My compass is mounted on top of my AHRS, is this all wrong? All my electronics are mounted insde the frame where its was supposed to go, I thought. Do you ever use att-gps mode? Or even atti mode? I only fly mine in att-gps mode after waiting for the gps to aquire 8 or 9 satellites first. I must be way off, which could explain why I never had a luck with Xaircraft stuff.


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T

tazmoe

New Member
Warlock said:
Hi Tazmoe. I of course know you were talking to Batfire here, but I just cant help but ask the reason you mounted things the way you have? My other question is why are you using manual mode? I ask because everything I see here is nothing like I have seen before. You certainly seem to be knowlegable, and If I can learn something it would be great. Manual mode is generally not used in my experience, since you have just basically turned it into a 4 channel helicopter with no gyro. All inputs would be exaggerated and require constant control inputs in all directions to just keep it in the air, hovering would be harder, not that any of this is un do able if you have lots of stick time. I wonder why you mounted the GPS up where you did? I include a couple pics of my X-650 V-8. My GPS uses the mount made for it to fit the back of the machine and it lays low. My compass is mounted on top of my AHRS, is this all wrong? Do you ever use att-gps mode? Or even atti mode? I only fly mine in att-gps mode after waiting for the gps to aquire 8 or 9 satellites first.


View attachment 7465View attachment 7466
Click to expand...

Hello Warlock,
I decided to mount my GPS and AHRS on an EMI shielded platform because of what I had read on Batfire's blog. I know he is working with the older version but I figured it couldn't hurt to try and shield it. I tried all of the modes with no luck. No I wouldn't say you are doing anything wrong, I'm just experimenting. I don’t have enough experience with any of this to make any judgment calls, this is all new to me.
Tazmoe
 

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