testflight with the aibotix X6 - part 1

[independent-tester]

Hi all,

coming from Germany, I studied comprehensively the website from the manufacturer of the aibotix X6. ( aibotix.com , aibotix.de ) After that I had recently the opportunity to have this copter demonstrated over here in Germany. And yes, the idea was to purchase one of these tools to become self-employed with it. Looking backwards I do believe that what I noticed might be of some interest to other people as well, as this company sells or at least offers its products in a couple of countries around the world. The whole thing will be in 6 parts. So here it is:

1. collision avoidance: According to the website the aibotix comes with a sensor. This sensor recognises automatically any hindrance along the way and avoids a collision by bypassing it. They even demonstrate this in a video on their side and on youtube. A feature like that is commonly known as "unique selling proposition". And here it is something in which this company differentiates itself to its competitors. Asking about this feature on location I have been told that it is still in the development phase and not yet available. So as this statement is not correct I do consider this as cheating and deception. And I suppose that to retrofit a copter which somebody would by now at a later stage with that feature will involve some additional - hefty - costs.

2. stearing with the tablet: According to the website the stearing of this copter will be done via a tablet pc. And this stearing is so simple that everybody can learn it within 5 minutes. And if the pilot is working on a job together with his client, the client can stand right next to the pilot and give him instructions about the picture to be taken; as they both see on the tablet exactly the same what the mounted camera on the kopter sees. That's the theory.

In practice it takes 5 minutes to understand the different functions on the tablet. To learn to fly would take a couple of days. On a huge empty grassland with no trees and no wind. And the tablet reflects so hard - even in a shadow under a tree - that it is even just for the pilot very hard to see a thing. A second person next to him can't see anything at all.

 

[independent-tester]

testflight with the aibotix X6 - part 2

so that's part 2:

3. price for the kopter: After getting in contact with the company via email in April I received the price list which was valid back then.. This price list was valid from the first of March onwards. Back then the price for the X6 was 25.000 Euros without GST ( check the exchange rate with your country at oanda.com, it's $ US 31.480 at the time of writing ). The price for everything you need to get started comes to some 38.000 Euros. In the conversation at their premises it turned out that they increased their prices from the first of June onwards. And the copter does cost now 27.500 Euros. That's an increase of 10% within just 3 months. Unfortunately I do not know how much it did cost before the first of March.

4. price for the tablet: Currently the price for the tablet is given with 5.000 Euros without GST. Plus another 4-figure amount for the software. In my opinion a price like that is beyond anything and totally excessive. An Acer Iconia Tablet PC 10,1" costs about 500 Euros, even with GST. That's just 10% from what their asking price is.

5. price according to the terms and conditions: You will find the terms and conditions on the German website at the bottom, in the small print. Here it says: "We reserve the right to increase our prices in case we face increases of costs ourselves. And after closing the deal with the buyer." I do unterstand this in a way that after I ordered this copter and came up with a deposit it might be that I will be informed to fork out for example another $ US 2000.

 

[independent-tester]

testflight with the aibotix X6 - part 3

here's part 3:

6. lifespan of the batteries: According to the website this copter can stay in the air up to 40 minutes. When I asked the technican who was partly present at the demonstration about the lifespan of the batterie he told me a different story. If the Canon EOS 5D Mark II - which is currently the benchmark in this industry from what I understand - is mounted on the kopter the flying time is anything between 5 and 8 minutes. And even without any payload he told me the maximum would be something like 12 minutes.

The only way to recharge the batteries is via a power socket. Which means that for example for a photographer standing in a national park and the next power socket 20 miles away a set of 4 batteries - 2 batteries are needed for a flight - is totally insufficient. On top of that the technican mentioned that he recomends not to fly until the batteries are totally empty as this way the lifespan of the batteries comes down.

7. unanswered questions: The salesperson was unable to find a reasonable answer or an answer at all for a varity of questions. Questions I just came up with just after studying the website. And I assumed that he would write down these questions and later - maybe via email - come back to me. Nope. So the questions were:

- The operator of this flying robot has every year maintenance costs of about 300 Euros. What for? No idea.

- One of the areas in which this kopter can operate is "the determination of water in plants. This is useful in the field of agriculture". Asked about that - no idea.

- Every technical device deteriorates after a while. Asked what lifespan I could expect the answer was very vague. ( "There is a brushless motor inside which does not have any wear and tear. And it's very easy to repair the stable housing for propeller protection in case it should be necessary". ) With a copter in this pricerange ( overall we are talking about some 38.000 Euros ) I do expect that they would run an X6 with maximum payload until there are symptoms of fatigue on the material. Additionally some tests which would tell the flight time with a payload of 2kg, 1.5kg, 1kg etc. would be good.

 

[independent-tester]

testflight with the aibotix X6 - part 4

here*s part 4:

8.operating under windy conditions: After watching the videos on the website one might assume that the copter is perfectly capable of flying under 'normal' windy conditions. Although there is a certain likelyhood that any 2 people have a different opinion about 'normal wind', I do believe that the X6 is not up to that standard. Problems might occur in case of a gust of wind; generally it is better to wait until there is nearly no wind at all. And the pilot has to concentrate himself to avoid any collision with objects.

9. repair: There is no remote diagnosis in case that for any reason this copter simply won't fly. In this case the robot needs to be repaired and there is only one spot for that on the whole planet - and that is the city Kassel in Germany. Understanding that the company sells these copters as far away as Australia to other companies which they call "partner": Does people or organisations on other continents have factored in these additional costs for postage + the loss of earnings?

 

[independent-tester]

testflight with the aibotix X6 - part 5

here*s part 5:

10. the website has changed: Quite exactly at the same time when I was at the company's premises they changed their website; but failed to inform me about it. I find that irritating. There is for example a change in the terms and conditions. The old website said that if during the duration of cover something on the copter needs to be repaired, but the part in question comes from another supplier, the customer needs to get in contact directly with that supplier. But at least that paragraph has been abolished.

11. technology: What happens theoretically in case the copter loses the radio contact or the batteries are nearly empty is that the X6 flies automatically back to the operator - no matter what the operator on his tablet does. In practice a visual red signal turns up. It indicates to the pilot that from now on he has some 30 seconds to get the copter back.

12. change of batteries: Every time the batteries have been changed the system needs a kind of technical readjustment. That takes every time a couple of minutes. Considering only this fact I do not believe that the statement given by the sales guy - taking pictures of a huge utility pole takes just 28 minutes per pole - holds true.

 

[Ikarus31]

Hello,

well I'm amazed by your contributions and as an "independent testers"you are a more "Anonymous" one, which maybe is by intention !

You did not do a good research?

Where does your "motivation" comes from ?

- It is striking that you have the "thread" deliberately divided to achievea higher output with "Google"!

- It is striking that you have set the "thread", bilingual (English /German) and that you are only since the end of June a member here!

- It is conspicuous that you are looking primarily for "negativeargument" and that you swap the "truth with reality"

Icannot help, but I have the feeling ….. the taste that you belong to the concurrenceand you are on fear of a free market.

On the other hand, let your arguments leads to the assumption that you are mostprobably not know anything about drones / uav / uas systems or you have only a verybasic knowledge in this field.

I, however, I do not want to hide here at all!

Weare a Spanish company and currently we operating three different drones, whichwe use throughout the world (ie, here in Europe, North Africa and CentralAmerica).


Wefly in almost all applications with very different sensors!

All three systems have their pros and their cons.

I would like to state also, that all three systems come from Germany and theyare from this three companies:

- MAVinci
- Microdrone
- Aibotix

to keep the systems on a high level - do everything possible (technologicalsupport as well as customers support)!

For Aibotix and the X6 - I want to make it quite clear, that I cannot shareyour opinion, since we have made and are making very good experiences with them.

It would be only fair if you could behave more “objective” instead of beingonly subjective.

I am here for all "users" willing to share our results so that youcan built your own opinion.

Inthe case you want to contact me: phws@mail.com

 

[Bartman]

i-t,

if you post multiple threads like this again to manipulate our system i'm going to remove your ability to post anything here.

edit: actually reading through his posts now that i'm done moving everything, he seems to have legitimate questions.

 

[Flugroboter]

Hey independent-tester - what kind of crazy stuff is that??? You name yourself independent but this really smells like you´re a competitor of Aibotix. What a disgrace for you to blame other people without telling your own name. That´s really more than cowardly. Everybody sees, that the only thing why you created this account is to blog this. When you test copters - where are the other tests?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

A shame to see Multi Rotor Forums.com being abused in this manner...

It is sad to see what you have done here "Independent Tester"... Quite honestly, to go to all the effort to translate your rant in two languages just to get the largest view, and then to do it in multiple posts so that you can generate better search engine hits, just proves that you are trying to deface Aibotix.

If I were an Administrator, I would have you banned from this site for malicious intent and for abusing this forum. I trust you will remove your postings from this website, if not just to show some common decency...

I have flown the Aibot X6 for many different applications ranging from aerial video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deBA89ui2Vs), powerline inspections, aerial mapping, industrial inspections etc and find that it is extremely easy to fly, very safe thanks to its shielded propellers and on-top of that, everytime I fly, I get great results as my imagery is constantly sharp thanks to their unique camera mount. I have flown this copter in 8m/s winds and did not have problems there either. Just incase you think that I have only flown the Aibot X6, I want to tell you that I have flown Microdrones, Mikrokopters, DJIs and a variety of other platforms. Each have their own strengths and weeknesses but I can tell you that the Aibot X6 wins in my book as it is the most versatile VTOL platform around and also the safest.

So all in all, I hope that everyone reading your posts will take the opportunity to contact Aibotix and/or Aibotix distributors and see the plethora of opportunities and markets that the Aibot X6 opens up for them! Not only is their product great, but the vision that they have for the next generation of vertical take off and landing UAVs will change the way aerial imagery and data is captured... safely, quietly, affordably, and efficiently!

 

[Malaysianflyer]

The Aibotix unit I saw was using all MK hardware. I presume they are using their own code in place of the MK firmware? Or their own custom interface that connects to the FC? I have to admit that they did have the unit dialed in very well and smooth flying.

 

[Sky]

Just to share some of my experience using Aibot X6,

Well, its almost a year using this product. I do aerial shooting and photography. So far, it doesn't disappointed me.
I had it crashed, accidentally hit a tree and even walls during my job, and surprisingly, the protection that it has, saved the propeller especially the engine.
Yet, i manage to fly it again and complete my job!!. Tho got some scratches here and there... I can just fix it myself.

As for the flying time, i personally can tolerate with it.
My normal aerial photo shot just take me up to 2 minutes the most. I can just fly it again and again .. when i want to..
My tips, if you don't want to do the readjustment a.k.a calibrate the copter each time you change the battery, don't remove the first battery. Attached the second battery (which is full), then after that you can remove the first battery. So, as long as the copter didn't turn off, you don't have to calibrate it. Well, it works for me..

Dear independent tester...
The only way to recharge a battery is via power socket and it is 20 miles away?.. o.o
Well, I get myself a portable solar charger.. I can take it anywhere I go.. my concern is.. anybody can suggest me lighter solar charger? >.<...

 

[DucktileMedia]

I thought it was a piece of Ikea furniture at first glance until i saw the 5d on it. I didn't even know this existed. Nice to know there are other helis out there that arent a cinestar 8 with 2814's and a Gh2. Seems to be the only thing you hear about. An odd way to market it on here but interesting nonetheless.

 

[independent-tester]

Good day Ikarus 31,

I would like to answer your comments as follows:

- First of all - you did not get into any of the 15 points I came up with; which I find confusing. Why?

- "Where does your "motivation" comes from ?" Youl'll find the answer to this question right at the beginning of my post. Quote: "And yes, the idea was to purchase one of these tools to become self-employed."

- I divided my contribution into 6 posts, rather than one:The ideas was that this way it would be easier for anybody to answer a specific point. Say, for example, you want to answer or comment precicely point 11. However, as the administrator wrote, I should have put all into one post. The intention was not to get a higher google ranking. But I got it wrong. Sorry for that. Lesson learned.

- Research: In my view it's just the opposite: I did quite a bit of research. And as a result of that I do find the difference between theory and reality ( at least here in this case ) quite apparent and frustrating.

- Posts bilingual: What is wrong about writing about my experiences in German and English?

- Your next argument is "that you swap the "truth with reality" " No, I didn't. I just stated facts.
It is a fact that the website states that the running time of the battery is "up to 40 minutes". And that the technician said that the maximum is 12 minutes ( without payload ) . It is a fact that the website said that this kopter has a collision avoidance. It is a fact that they increased the price in 3 months by 10% for the kopter. It is a fact that they say that everybody can learn how to fly with it with the tablet in 5 minutes........
But as we are talking about not being objective: In my view the sales presentation form the sales guy left a lot to be desired. But I did not came up with that, as this is just my personal opinion.

- I'm only a member here since June: Before that I did not have any reason to join this forum. Looking backwards, however, I consider this as a mistake. I should have joined here earlier and asking relevant questions in the forum beforehand. About this point you are right.

- You have the feeling that I do belong to any competitor: I value your feelings. However, this is not the case ( and could be proven, of course ). My feeling, on the other side, is, that you belong to the company in question.

- Your next point is "the assumption that you are mostprobably not know anything about drones". : This assumption is correct in so far as from the technical side of things I do not know anything about drones.. And precisely this is the whole point: Any person reading the website might come to the conclusion they don't have to ( I mean, the vast majority of people woh can drive a car quite well are totally unable to conduct a simple oil change. And they don't have to.. ) . The video and the description says that anybody can learn to fly with the tablet within 5 minutes and it is just a piece of cake.....

- " I cannot shareyour opinion": I do not state opinions ( with very few exceptions ). I do state facts.

- " if you could behave more “objective” : Please take any of my 15 points and explain to me how I can be more objective. And I say it again: You did not come up with a reply to any of all the points mentioned.

Walter

 

[hjls3]

Walter - I did watch companies video and there are a few pretty bold claims. Something you might consider, that maybe help quite a bit...flight simulator. They can really help. Then perhaps consider buying a DJI550 or 450. Not that either would help too much with professional AP work, but both would do a great job teaching you a bit more about flying multi-rotors. Just throwing a few ideas out there. Sorry your multi-rotor experience seems to be a negative one so far. Maybe some stick time with a trainer type of MR or simulator will help you get closer to using your Aibot professionally. Good luck.

 

[independent-tester]

Hi Sky,

I find your post quite helpful. And I should have joined this forum much earlier and asking my questions here, rather than relying on the information given on the website. Apparently it seems to me, that you know a lot more about the kopter rather than the sales guy who demonstrated the whole thing. I assure you that, for example, I asked him how a battery can be recharged. And that he did say that the only way to do it is a via a power socket.

And it might be that you are fine with the flying time. And that maybe it would be fine for me as well. After some training, of course. The point is that I do consider the given flight time on the website as an unfair misinformation. I mean, I cannot sell you a car telling you that the maximum speed is 100 miles per hour. And after driving around you'll find out that the maximum speed is just 75 miles per hour..... And I do find the gap between theory ( up to 40 minutes ) and practice ( between 5 and 8 minutes ) as to big.

Crashes with your kopter: There are quite a few videos on youtube showing these crashes. And this, again, is my point: The given fact on the website indicates that there are no crashes anymore possible, thanks to the collision avoidance. And the difference is huge: I can fly your kopter with this system installed, but not without.

I do wish you heaps of great photos with your kopter,
Walter

 

[independent-tester]

Dear Administrator,

You critizise me for posting multiple threads.

The idea was not to manipulate your system or get a higher google ranking, like somebody told on another post.
It was really just that I thought it would be easier for someone who, for example, wants to comment or answer just one or 2 specific points.
However, a friend of mine who is technically more savvy than me told me the same thing - I should have put all into one thread.

I do apologize for that. It was a blunder. Lesson learned.
But I would like to mention that I stick to everything I stated on my comments.

Walter

 

[independent-tester]

Hi Flugroboter,

" this really smells like you´re a competitor of Aibotix": No, I am not. And it could be proven, of course.

"blame other people without telling your own name": Am I the only one on this forum who does not give his name? Where is yours?

"When you test copters - where are the other tests? " This was my first.

Apart from that: You did not come up with any specific argument about any of my points. Why not?

Walter

 

[enne70]

we wait for a lot of new testing activities...also to microdrones, mikrokopters, etc

Hi Indipendent Tester,

i'm very glad to you about your work with aibotix test. i have worked with microdrones gmbh for 3 years and i have never read on any forum about their weakness about delivery or about ability to make a different product from MD-200. I m waited for 1 year in delivery of a MD-1000. it exist? it fly? please indipendent tester...go to their factory and check their production.

In my dipendent testing activities i have to say:

1 - microdrones: MD200 is a good product but very aged...and a poor payload in 2012.
2 - mikrokopter: sum the costs of all parts, plus licensing for commercial users, plus every time that you land not so good and broke a component of the copter (a lot of plastic....and a little bit of carbon)
3 - fly good with X6 in italy with high wind or where microdrones loose on 30 meter of altitude every GPS signal and every RC signal....
4 - the carbon protection of rotors in X6 have gived to me the ability to take a lot of services works. Try to imagine to make 10 minutes of walk under a forest to reach a powerline pilon on a hill. pass througt with a MD or a MK....is a elephant in a shop of swarosky!!!!

WHY NO ONE WRITE ABOUT TEST MADE IN OPERATION ACTIVITIES?

1 - md have 30 minutes to start to fly
2 - with MK and X6 if you take more than 30 seconds you have other problems..not for the copter..
3 - put a battery on MD200 and start to fly...ops you have forgotten to turn on the camera, so you land... YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE BATTERY!!! 760 euros of batterY!!!
4 . make the same with MK or X6....start, land, start, land, start, land....until battery is discharged...and 100 euros of battery!!! on internet!!!


please, if you want to be an indipendent tester, PLEASE, BUY an MD200, an octocopter and a X6 (total amount: around 70.000 euros), and start to make testing, quality testing, comparative testing....

only in this way, as i have done, you are able to be a tester....and not only because a sales manager have loose some answers.

Copter market is in expansion now...and new players like Aibotix (with a special vision for me), are welcomed! They have the correct vision for CIVIL USES of drones... the others..MK included, have the idea to put a camera high in the air....

the market do not ask for it....the people that wants to work with civil uav wants other...

UAVs are needed not to make a picture...but a service in extreme environments.. otherwise, elycopters, airplanes, satellites...are more sharp!!.

best,

Nik

here*s part 5:

10. the website has changed: Quite exactly at the same time when I was at the company's premises they changed their website; but failed to inform me about it. I find that irritating. There is for example a change in the terms and conditions. The old website said that if during the duration of cover something on the copter needs to be repaired, but the part in question comes from another supplier, the customer needs to get in contact directly with that supplier. But at least that paragraph has been abolished.

11. technology: What happens theoretically in case the copter loses the radio contact or the batteries are nearly empty is that the X6 flies automatically back to the operator - no matter what the operator on his tablet does. In practice a visual red signal turns up. It indicates to the pilot that from now on he has some 30 seconds to get the copter back.

12. change of batteries: Every time the batteries have been changed the system needs a kind of technical readjustment. That takes every time a couple of minutes. Considering only this fact I do not believe that the statement given by the sales guy - taking pictures of a huge utility pole takes just 28 minutes per pole - holds true.

 

[independent-tester]

Hi Hijs3,

a flight simulator sounds like a good idea and a reasonable approach.
I should have done that and I should have joined this forum much earlier.

About the – in my opinion – misinformation on the website from the company in question: Somebody in the German – language forum wrote „welcome to reality; overpromise and underdeliver is common practice.“ But this is the only manufacturer I saw so far - so I'm unable to compare this company with any other.

Walter

 

[Ikarus31]

Hi Hijs3,

a flight simulator sounds like a good idea and a reasonable approach.
I should have done that and I should have joined this forum much earlier.

About the – in my opinion – misinformation on the website from the company in question: Somebody in the German – language forum wrote „welcome to reality; overpromise and underdeliver is common practice.“ But this is the only manufacturer I saw so far - so I'm unable to compare this company with any other.

Walter

"About the – in my opinion – misinformation on the website from the company in question: Somebody in the German – language forum wrote „welcome to reality; overpromise and underdeliver is common practice.“ But this is the only manufacturer I saw so far - so I'm unable to compare this company with any other."

...... well and what about "over confidence" and "hobby assessments" in talk show style ?
... and you say are unable to compare this company with others ?

Obviously you do not know how many manufactorers are on the market !

Sorry for getting a little bit strong in my words !

Since we have spent quite a big amount of money for three different drones and one training drone for flying basics, as well as two pro - pilots, I am giving you the following advice:

1. learn to make a real market study, based on that what you are looking for and not such a kind pre-school taxations

2. contact the companies and ask for infos (written) and also for references

3. then meet the people and communicate your Pros and Cons or your concerns

4. test the equipment in all matters, by flying and for specific applications and consulte "expierenced people" (maybe friend or a pro pilot)

5. read extracts of the manual to see if you can align the theory in practise

6. take your result and compare to all other equipment avialable - here take care because on the market we have a lot who
are buying "Chinese equipment" for a cheep money and they are mounting it up for you ! - good for the hobby, but not for the pro-world

7. re-assure the promises with written guarantees

7. take your decision

8. If you have any doubts contact me - I have offered this already in my first reply !

We are using this technologies now for almost three years, in a very wide field of applications and you can believe that I have seen and tested a lot
- Canadian and US - Systems as well as other German systems (for sure only those, which are in an acceptable price range) and also special software
and Yes - we did made our decision to use the systems we bought, because on our evaluation they are the best.

Just to give you some price ideas:

for our MD4-1000 we paid 50.800,- € + taxes with a Olympus camera - price list as of 40.000 - limited to 1 kg

for our Mavinci aircraft we paid 32.000 € + taxes limited to 500gr

for our X6 we paid 25.500,- € + taxes limited to 2kgs - yes price is now 27.500,- € but it comes with more extras

For sensors:

FLIR TAU 640 - 26.000,- € + taxes

FLIR TAU Core - 9000,- € + taxes

CANON 5D Mark II - 2400,- € + taxes

SONY 3D HD Video - 1500,- € + taxes

coming soon

Tetracam - 6 filter - multispectral - around 12.000 € + taxes


.... and for sure I can say that the products coming from somewehre of China or from Waterloo area - Belgium
or from Berlin area - Germany are not compatable for the time being.

I am Patrick (real name) - phws@mail.com (real email)