Tarot 2D Brushless gimbal gains issue

CoNa

Member
Have a slight jello effect wih my Tarot too.
I use 10" props on my F550.
Did a video of it.

http://youtu.be/lC2JNHnx2iI

I have now moved the gibal back towards the center to avoid prop wash,but t's still there.
Have ordered a prop balancer to see it helps.

I also have the horizon drift. It seems to get worse at the end of the flight.
Perhaps I should have a separate lipo for the gimbal?

An ideas for the drift issue? which parameter should I change to counter it?
 

CoNa

Member
The jello effect was fixed with balancing the props. Really smooth now.
The only thing that bothers me now is the roll drift.
 

giantpt

New Member
I have fixed problem with Tarot gimbal last week... how? I have thrown it into the trash :)
No matter what I did, I was simply not able to get rid of those nasty vibrations and buzz. I tried various "recommended" settings, played with motor gains (even lowering to 40/20 didn't help), made a lot of test flights and then .... I bought Zenmuse H3 and now I am getting silk smooth and vibration free video. No shakes, no vibraions, no horizon drift.

Hi all!!!

Stanleyy, what can I say?? After having updated the controller to the Firmware version 1.5, all the issues are gone.. Now I have a perfect gimbal.. as good as the Zenmuse.

BTW, if you don't want your Tarot, ship it to me, I will appreciate.

Thank you all for this amazing post.

Just one more thing for all the users with jelo problems.. I recommend to DIY or buy a rope isolator, I have built my own and is really effective, it has cut every single jelo (I am shooting in medium and narrow).

Cheers
 
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kyamon

New Member
I just joined the club of the Anonymous Tarot t2d owners... ;)

This post has been very helpful indeed. Unfortunately not to get my gimbal to operate consistently, but to not feel alone, and to get some imput about how to get the damn thing to work.
So, here is what I have:
At first, the gimbal seemed to work OK. Gopro 3+ on it, stable like a rock. Could control both angles externally, like expected.
Then I connected a liveview cable to the camera, and it did not stabilize at all. I searched and found that the plug/cable throw the gimbal off-balance enough to prevent it from stabilizing. So I started playing with every single parameter I can change, but never got it to work consistently. Mind you, I was not even flying the thing (it is on an F550, btw; Powering it with its own 3s lipo, directly. I know this could be an issue, and I find that quite outrageous, to be honest. Tarot can do better than that! Just include the BEC on the controller...), it was just sitting on my desk and swinging all over the place!
I gave up on the liveview for the moment, but now even without that cable hooked up it does not stabilize as well anymore as before. In general it seems to sit quite well (no vibration), but when I either tilt the drone or change the camera angle from my rc it starts jerking around or jump to a random position. It finds back occasionally in most cases. When I change the tilt from my rc it looks like at certain angles, always the same ones, it starts shaking. If I make it past those angles it is stable again.
So, what this makes me think is that the culprit is the sensor cable, going to the controller. If I move that cable then I can get the gimbal to shake, and in some cases stop it from shaking. This is consistent with the problems I have when mounting the liveview cable. Has anybody noticed the same thing?
It seems to me that the thing is so underpowered (or whatever does this) that even the slightest thing gets it off-balance, and then the gain parameters are suddenly wrong. With the cables of course this may mean that the gain parameters would have to depend on the angle(s) of the camera.

What I have also noticed is that some times the gimbal behaves differently when connected to the computer than when I disconnect it (with an outrageously flimsy and unreliable plug, btw).

Has anybody experienced these issues as well?

(btw - I am frustrated by the non-working thing right now, hence the tone. In all I believe the gimbal delivers, considering the price. There is a reason why other devices cost so much more. One useful, and probably simple, thing to add would be, for example, a self-learning PID. These things exist for other devices, and it would make our lives so much simpler! It could be programmed directly onto the controller, or in the software. All the user has to do is press a button and the thing optimizes itself...)
 
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kyamon

New Member
Hey again...
I guess I should apologise to Tarot. I have taken my copter out today, to fly in fairly strong wind (40 km/h with gusts) and the camera was rock solid, even when the copter was fighting the wind. While I was impressed by the stability of the F550 itself, the quality of the footage blew me away (no interesting filming, but extremely stable landscapes). Mind you, this was without any live view attached, so the bare GoPro was attached to the gimbal. But given the problems I had a week ago (see the post above), I would not have expected it to perform that well.

So, sorry Tarot. The t2d is a good product. ;)
 

ardo_ski

New Member
Would anyone know why when I hook the connection to the Tilt on my Tarot Gimbal and assign the knob on my DX9 the gimbal tilts up?? It doesn't respond to the knob either.
 

ardo_ski

New Member
Plugging the Tarot in to AUX4 on the RX. Looks the software configuration today and everything seems fine. Also I had it hooked up before, but it was on a 3 way switch and it worked. The switch would make it point up or down, but I couldn't control or stop it.
attachment.php
 

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ardo_ski

New Member
So switched the Default Mode and gimbal stop at the Max Angle Limit. If i unplug the "T" from the gimbal it levels out. Also the knob is assigned to the AUX4. One thing I noticed is when changing the default mode to "Position mode" it ignores the "Init Tilt Angle".
 

I bought the Tarot T-2d gimbal for Christmas and so far have found the settings listed in post #6 of this thread to be the best. Now I'm going to show you a video compilation I took today that clearly demonstrates my issues. In the first part of the video, all is good. No jello or shaking. In the middle you will see a fair amount of jello and gimbal shaking. Then toward the end you will see roll drift when I yaw. This only seems to happen when it's cold outside (was 37F degrees today). I tested the gimbal in a warm 60F degree warehouse and did not get these issues. Can anyone help me out? Or have similar problems? ... Or am I grounded until spring comes and we warm up? I hope that is not the case. I like filming snowy winter landscapes.

 

treeline

Member
In my experience the Tarot 2D totally freaks out in cold weather. BUT---for me it has to be colder than freezing. More like sub 20F for the erratic behavior to start. Go below 0F and it's pretty much worthless.

One thing to test is to try resetting it when it begins to act up by simply power cycling it a few times to see if you can slap some sense into it. That has occasionally worked for me.

I bought the Tarot T-2d gimbal for Christmas and so far have found the settings listed in post #6 of this thread to be the best. Now I'm going to show you a video compilation I took today that clearly demonstrates my issues. In the first part of the video, all is good. No jello or shaking. In the middle you will see a fair amount of jello and gimbal shaking. Then toward the end you will see roll drift when I yaw. This only seems to happen when it's cold outside (was 37F degrees today). I tested the gimbal in a warm 60F degree warehouse and did not get these issues. Can anyone help me out? Or have similar problems? ... Or am I grounded until spring comes and we warm up? I hope that is not the case. I like filming snowy winter landscapes.

 

In my experience the Tarot 2D totally freaks out in cold weather. BUT---for me it has to be colder than freezing. More like sub 20F for the erratic behavior to start. Go below 0F and it's pretty much worthless.

One thing to test is to try resetting it when it begins to act up by simply power cycling it a few times to see if you can slap some sense into it. That has occasionally worked for me.

Thanks... so I may be pretty much out of luck until spring it seems. Most winter days are 20F-40F here, with a few down to 0F or so... I'm in Wisconsin. I wonder why it behaves erratically in the cold...all the other components on my quadcopter seem to handle the cold just fine.

Since I've only had it in the winter so far, can you tell me how it behaves when it starts getting above 50F? We're usually above 50F from April thru November, and summer is 75F-90F, so I'm hoping it behaves beautifully at least in those warmer months?
 

treeline

Member
Works great above freezing for me. Totally worth the money. Here it is around 50F. All filmed with the Tarot 2D.


Still, I've filmed in some pretty extreme conditions and 37F just seems too warm for the kind of behavior you're getting. I'm guessing some of the weird behavior at really cold temps comes from the fact that the vibration isolation/dampening balls simply freeze and harden, rendering them useless. Therefore, all of the vibration from your multi rotor is transferred to the gimbal and the gyroscope starts sending data that the processors struggle to compensate for.



Thanks... so I may be pretty much out of luck until spring it seems. Most winter days are 20F-40F here, with a few down to 0F or so... I'm in Wisconsin. I wonder why it behaves erratically in the cold...all the other components on my quadcopter seem to handle the cold just fine.

Since I've only had it in the winter so far, can you tell me how it behaves when it starts getting above 50F? We're usually above 50F from April thru November, and summer is 75F-90F, so I'm hoping it behaves beautifully at least in those warmer months?
 

Check this out...

Took my quadcopter to work today and flew it inside the heated warehouse. It's between 55F and 60F in there. As you can see, no vibrations, no jitters, no shaking and NO JELLO.


After that, I immediately took it outside into the 25F air and it vibrates, jitters and shakes like crazy and creates ugly footage. I'm at a loss here... I'm guessing it's not the motors causing problems, but either the control board or the IMU board. They get cold and behave erratically is my assumption.

I wish there was a fix...
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Hoverfly had a temperature compensation procedure that calibrated the sensors for changing temperatures. This might be necessary for your board but if there's no procedure available then you're out of luck.

Have you allowed the equipment to acclimate by leaving it outside for a while before applying power?
 

No temperature compensation procedure for the Tarot board. These problems happen on the second and third battery swaps also, so I'm assuming it would be well acclimated by then?

Seeing as it works fine in warmer weather, there's gotta be something I can do to recalibrate it for cold weather... or is there no hope -- kind of like how your cell phone will be sluggish and slow to respond after being exposed to cold weather?
 

And I do find it funny they list these temperature specs -- which I have proven in this thread seem to be inflated as I have issues as warm as 4c.

- Working environment temperature: -15 ℃ ~ 65 ℃
 

Update:

I spent last night playing with my motor power and gains and then did a test video under the snow covered street lights. All looked fine, so I figured I'd do a video in the daylight. That video is below. First here are my gains and motor power settings:

Roll Motor
Total Gain: 100
Velocity Gain: 150
Integral Gain: 70
Accelerate Gain: 130
Motor Power: 60

Tilt Motor
Total Gain: 77
Velocity Gain: 80
Integral Gain: 190
Accelerate Gain: 93
Motor Power: 40


Notes:
In the beginning of the video it seems to lift off smooth, then gets some vertical "jello-like" trembles.
At 0:27 it has side-to-side shakes that transition to vertical movement again from 0:34 to 0:38.
0:39 to 0:44 we have side-to-side shakes.
0:45 to 1:02 we have side-to-side shakes that transition to more vertical like trembles at the very end.
1:05 to 1:22 looks pretty good (no side-to-side shakes) but then I see a few vertical trembles from 1:18 to 1:22.
1:24 to 1:37 looks relatively decent except for a few vertical trembles and small side-to-side shakes here and there.

I hope this can help nail this down. If you scroll up to my first video, I think this is an improvement from where I was... but if you look at the indoor video I did with the first settings, that was rock solid the entire time.... so these problems seem to be directly rated to the cold weather. It's 32F outside today. I left my quadcopter in my car all morning so it should have been perfectly acclimated before I powered it up.

Please tell me someone has an idea to solve this once and for all?

Thanks!!!!
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I would doubt that the software tweaks would be able to fully compensate for the weather issues. It seems you have pretty well narrowed it to that.

The Phobotic CP has an onboard component that keeps the IMU at a steady temp. This leads me to believe that changing temps (and definitely colder) would create issues, as you have found here.
 

Thanks for the input Motopreserve. How come Tarot states it operates down to -15C then? It's 0C today and it's operating poorly.

Would you agree that the issues I have are not jello related to my multicopter and it's gimbal driven? Do you have any ideas on how I can make it work in these colder temperatures, since warmer weather won't happen until April here.
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Firstly, expecting a company to be super accurate with their promises is only setting ourselves up for a big fall :)

Hard to tell whether it would be only gimbal driven. Or more specifically, controller driven. I can't recall whether you mentioned trying softer dampening balls due to the cold hardening them up. Not even sure that the balls come any softer than the stock Tarot versions. They are pretty soft to begin with.

Also, have you tried an ND filter over the lens? The brightness may be contributing to the issue.
 

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