Sony NEX-5

[Bartman]

thanks for the dimensions. it's a bit wide for my camera tray. i originally set it up specifically for the T2i/550D but then added holes for the NEX and GH2 as well as a mounting spot for a GoPro underneath. the 5D will have to go into the future dev. folder.
thanks,
bart

 

[Macsgrafs]

I think what we are all after is this:-

Lightweight
Top quality

So the optics from a 5D, transmitted through a 5W video TX & have the recording side on the ground...problem cured.

This is a very nasty game as it stands. We want this broadcast quality video, with fast FPS, but we dont want the weight that goes with it.

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

... I have found the video quality of the Panasonic HDC-TM 900 to be better than the 5D and it is a huge weight/cost saving but it is sensitive to vibration...

I was disappointed that Panasonic changed over from 3CCD's to CMOS sensors in their consumer range. I avoid CMOS whenever possible precisely because of their sensitivity to vibration. Somehow doubt that the HDC-TM 900's 1/4" sensor is going to outperform the 5D's full frame.

 

[DennyR]

On stills no but on video it is remarkable.

Full frame has only one use in broadcast TV that is depth of field control. The opposite requirement for aerial imaging.

Canon in their own admission say that image quality from 7D/550D is more practical.

The worlds best aerial video system is the Cineflex and it does not use a full 35mm frame.

 

[Macsgrafs]

I was disappointed that Panasonic changed over from 3CCD's to CMOS sensors in their consumer range. I avoid CMOS whenever possible precisely because of their sensitivity to vibration. Somehow doubt that the HDC-TM 900's 1/4" sensor is going to outperform the 5D's full frame.

I always thought CMOS handled vibration better? What sensor has a gopro HD got in it?

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

... Full frame has only one use in broadcast TV that is depth of field control ...

Sorry, don't agree. Depth of Field control is certainly ONE benefit of full frame but that is not necessarily a limiting factor for aerial use since we also have iris control. However, I will concede that a dedicated video camera has many inherent advantages over a stills camera with video capability.

Can't agree about the Cineflex either, sorry. The Cineflex is really, really good, is the best known and probably the most widely used but the World's best aerial video system is arguably the Gyron.

I always thought CMOS handled vibration better? What sensor has a gopro HD got in it?

Ross

CMOS. That's why it is prone to the 'Jello' effect - a combination of the rolling shutter and its sensitivity to vibration. CCD's are more resilient and simply display vibration as a fuzzy image.



Anyway, to continue the main theme, and as the crappy weather prevents outside activity, I decided to mess with the method of attaching the 'lower MK stack', i.e. the flat battery bays and SLR2 camera mount. Previously, it had all been attached the MK way - directly to the lower hub frame member with four bolts (either plastic or metal). With all these 5D/5n comparisons and the rather soft looking images from the 5n I wondered whether vibration might in fact be an issue. After all, the camera was effectively bolted directly to the centre of the vibration source with very little in between to soak up vibes.

So a few bits of aluminium later, the little silicon pads from a previous experiment and the mounting bracket from a brand new but as yet unused AV200 and a new platform was fashioned ...

... and this was the resulting camera comparison video: (let's see if Ross can get it right this time !!:highly_amused

The fabricated 'wings' with the gel pads seemed to work very nicely with a good amount of compression available. The design allows the gel to be pre-loaded to suit different camera weights and the corner tabs on the 'wings', working with the opposite side and the top plates prevent the gels from floating around but keep everything totaly isolated from the frame. But, the Droidworx gear tubes flex under the weight of the 5D and the supplied grommets are too soft and they thus permit wobble. The Sony's lesser weight did not induce this problem and its resulting video is more stable.

BUT, the Canon's image resolution and colour rendition is far superior and more appealing. (Both cameras set at 1920 x1080p25, ISO 200, 1/50@ƒ16, Landscape mode, and the Canon was zoomed in slightly to around 30mm to match the NEX's widest 18mm focal length)

 

[Macsgrafs]

Left cannon. I do actually prefer the NEX(right) looking at this recent footage, if only it was as stable as the 5D Unless of course you wobbled on purpose to throw me off
The right hand image is a touch sharper I would say, the sky hasnt blown out so much & I prefer the WB.
Ross

 

[DennyR]

Having used both Gyron and Cineflex quite extensively over the years I can say without doubt that Cineflex is a much more highly developed smaller lighter and accurate. You dont find many Gyron FS on the front of an Apache. military funding will win in the end. Last time I used a Gyron was with a Arri 435 which goes back at least 8 years ago. Bob Nettman has made a mark that will go down in history as most stuff is a copy of his original inner axis sytem.

 

[MombasaFlash]

Left cannon. I do actually prefer the NEX(right) looking at this recent footage, if only it was as stable as the 5D Unless of course you wobbled on purpose to throw me off
The right hand image is a touch sharper I would say, the sky hasnt blown out so much & I prefer the WB.
Ross

Oops, velly sollee, wrong for the third time Ross. Maybe that's why you "do actually prefer the right image"! As you say, sharper image, gorgeous sky, correct WB. The NEX just looks like A.N.Other bland video to me. Absolutely nothing striking or remarkable to it whatsoever (sorry Dave). It barely even looks like HD.

Maybe you were thrown off by the wobbling - it was particularly gusty. But then the NEX did OK ??!

As I mentioned in the blurb, the painstakingly fabricated mount modification worked nicely for the NEX but the Canon wobbled - too heavy for the insufficiently substantial DW gear rails and soft grommets. Overall, there is no significant improvement that I can detect so the mount has been reverted it to the MK way so that both cameras can be used.

 

[MombasaFlash]

Having used both Gyron and Cineflex quite extensively over the years I can say without doubt that Cineflex is a much more highly developed smaller lighter and accurate. You dont find many Gyron FS on the front of an Apache. military funding will win in the end. Last time I used a Gyron was with a Arri 435 which goes back at least 8 years ago. Bob Nettman has made a mark that will go down in history as most stuff is a copy of his original inner axis sytem.

OK. Can't beat personal experience. With those credentials, faffing around with multi-rotors and consumer cameras must be a bit of a let-down. Sort of puts your comment about "only coming here whilst waiting for video to render" into perspective. Are there some examples of your work with Gyron and Cineflex to see somewhere?

 

[DucktileMedia]

I dont know if this helps but my 5n defaults to soft images. You can roll the dial and set it closer to sharp and it does help. But full sharp is too grainy and pixelated. Personally I think you guys are too fussy but maybe you have high end paying clients that require 444, 5k, 3d, imax perfection.

 

[MombasaFlash]

... You can roll the dial and set it closer to sharp and it does help ...

I did not know this. Whereabouts in the menus is this found? I have been through every single item but have not recognised the one to tamper with. The image does clean up pretty well later in FCP but then you get involved with rendering every single small change. More convenient to start with a sharper image.

 

[Macsgrafs]

So I did get the canon as the best quality

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

Yes you did. I reckon you got thrown off by assuming the Canon would be the less wobbly of the two and then disregarded everything your eyes were telling you.

Doesn't excuse the other two times though :shame:

I am still not convinced by this NEX. The majority of the video is soft and feeble looking to me. I want to try the same thing with a dedicated video camcorder thrown in the mix. Weather should be clear today with a blistering 7°.

 

[Macsgrafs]

I reckon you could be right, trouble is with modern day NLE's its easy to convert colours etc & end up with good material

Ross

 

[MombasaFlash]

Very true, but that video was made with un-tampered with camera files - other than splitting the screen - just selecting similar framing for the purposes of comparison. No colour, sharpening, stabilising ... nada.

Weatherman was wrong again. More jolly rain.

 

[DennyR]

I dont know if this helps but my 5n defaults to soft images. You can roll the dial and set it closer to sharp and it does help. But full sharp is too grainy and pixelated. Personally I think you guys are too fussy but maybe you have high end paying clients that require 444, 5k, 3d, imax perfection.

The 5D does not deliver unsharp images if used correctly. Most amateur photographers think that using a fast lens at full bore will give the best results due to faster shutter speeds. Just about all lenses deliver the best performance at around F8 / F11 therefore you should aim for that and adjust the other settings using the ISO setting. Other problems can come from autofocus and should be disabled. I shot about 1000 images from a microlite which is an extremely rough ride and one can only take up that which you can hold in one hand. All perfect to my surprise. You should buy the book and the video, It's called above Cyprus.

 

[DennyR]

Unless you are a producer then you don't get to see official show reals but I used the Gyron on a pop video for a great singer from Russia named Zara you may be able to find it on utube. As for Cineflex it is almost impossible to shoot unsteady footage. Suffice to say that after 12 GP's 2 RIAT's and five years of ENG with a R44 Newscopter I have enough experience with one. I don't think this is the thread or the forum for showing off with full size showreels.

 

[MombasaFlash]

The 5D does not deliver unsharp images if used correctly. Most amateur photographers think that using a fast lens at full bore will give the best results due to faster shutter speeds. Just about all lenses deliver the best performance at around F8 / F11 therefore you should aim for that and adjust the other settings using the ISO setting. Other problems can come from autofocus with should be disabled. I shot about 1000 images from a microlite which is an extremely rough ride and one can only take up that which you can hold in one hand. All perfect to my surprise. You should buy the book and the video, It's called above Cyprus.

I personally do not have a sharpness problem with the 5D. It delivers nice crisp images - as one should expect.

However, I do have an issue with the NEX-5n which does NOT deliver particularly sharp images, neither still not video. I usually aim for for an aperture around ƒ8. For video the shutter speed is usually left at 1/50 and any exposure shortcomings have to be centered with ISO settings.

This business of 'sharpness setting' that IrisAerial mentioned sounds ridiculous to me. Who on earth wants a soft image by default? The closest thing I have found in the menus to what he is talking about is under the 'Intelligent Auto' menu where Background Focus can be adjusted. Sure enough, if sharpness is increased then the image visibly sharpens. But this mode cannot be used because everything important i.e. shutter & aperture is fixed on auto.

Really stupid.

 

[Bartman]

FWIW, you can find a good used T2i on Craigslist for about $450. With a new Sigma 10-20 lens you're about $925 into the camera and it works great and weighs about 2 lbs.
I keep trying to embrace the NEX5N but I also keep getting scared away. I'd like to have 60 fps so my slow-mo looks better but maybe I'll compensate some other way.