Single Op Radio Set up using 8FG tx and R6208SB rx, S800 and Zenmuse

[rameshtahlan]

Hi
Need to know about Radian programming.. .although i have seen all the videos.. but still not clear in my head.
Do i have to connect the usb adapter to each Radian one by one and hook up to PC to tell each Radian as to which Radian it is.
so what i am saying is that i hook up one Radian to PC... tell it that it is Pan Radian, then disconnect it
now hook up next Radian to Pc and tell it that it is Roll Radian and then disconnect it
and then same for Tilt
Now i hook up everything in a Daisychain manner,, and attach usb adapter to Pan Radian and hook up to Pc
and now first click on Pan 1 tab, then click on Read tab, and set channels and gains.
Now click on Roll 1 tab, then on Read Tab... and set channels and gains
same for Tilt
Is this correct way ....
sorry for the long lines.
just want to be totally to my own logic thinking
thanking u guys in advance
Ramesh Tahlan

 

[maxwelltub]

Ok thought I had you then lost it again. How can you run the wkm out of an sbus and then the zenmuse out of the lower channels of another receiver bound to the same tx? By lower channels you do mean 1-8? Because I thought the take home message was the wkm with sbus will only respond to lower channels, so you would have two systems on 1-8. If that was possible I would have all the right gear. I think my solution is to get an rx that can respond to channels 9-14 for the z15. (via standard rx inputs)

I know this feeling too good..... :tennis:

The trouble with WooKong + Zenmuse in connection with S-Bus is the lack of flexibility. The S-Bus channels in the WooKOng/Zen are pre-set and cannot be changed....you have to stick with it or use the traditional method with a lot of wires. Someone would think that you should have a possibility (at least with the Zenmuse) that you have a setting where you tell the Zen to use upper/lower channels, but maybe they will implement this in the future. The funny part is that the S-Bus system in connection with S-Bus servos is the most flexible system so far, but only with S-Bus servos. When FUTABA invented the S-Bus, they didn't think (know) about Flight Controls of Multirotors. So what we have at the moment is some sort of hybrid solution, and if it gets a little more complex, we have to find work-arounds until we can change the S-Bus channels IN the WooKong / Zenmuse.

My set-up at the moment:

Frsky TRF8S for the WooKong via S-Bus
Futaba R7008SB for the Zenmuse, set to use lower channels via traditional connections.
Transmitter: Futaba T18 MZ

I also got the Futaba Wireless Trainer System (http://www.futaba-rc.com/accessories/futm1010.html) which just plugs into the trainer port of the Futaba Transmitter. That way you can have one-man operation, but with the flick of a switch you have a two-man set-up as well.

Chris

 

[hjls3]

Thanks Chris - I ws having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the S-Bus stuff and how it applies to WKM ZEM. That post helped alot.

S-Bus was originally intended as a way to give special S-Bus servos a unique adress in order to be able to hook up more servos than you have channels on your transmitter. Complex cable laying in large RC-Aircrafts became much easyier with S-Bus.
Here is a little background info: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1319025

If you use S-Bus, the traditional (normal) connections of an S-Bus receiver are the "mirrors" of you S-Bus channels, so if you have a 3-way switch assigned to S-Bus channel 3, whatever you hook on "traditional" channel 3 will be operated with the same 3-way switch.

If S-Bus is used with WooKong and/or Zenmuse there is a little problem: The channels are "fixed" in the WooKong and Zenmuse as per manual and cannot be changed (like with the programmable S-Bus servos), both require the "upper" channels 1-8

The workaround is to use WooKong with S-Bus on receiver No.1 and connect the Zenmuse in the traditional way with receiver No.2.

In the manual (page 2) for your receiver R6208SB (http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/r6208sb-manual.pdf) you can see the way to change the S-Bus servo channels to "MODE B" (Channels 9 -16), and as sayed before, S-Bus channels are mirrored to the traditional outlets, you can now connect your Zenmuse in the traditional way....but you need 2 receivers.

To make it more affordable (Futaba stuff is freaking expensive) you can do the following:

Get a Frsky TRF 8 S (!!! not the TRF 8 SB !!! ) as a second receiver for the Zenmuse. Its absolutely the same quality as the Futaba receiver, S-Bus compatible and dirt cheap. The channels 1-8 can be switched via jumper.....http://www.alofthobbies.com/frsky-tfr8-8-channel-fasst-compatible-receiver-1.html

PS: You can bind both receivers to one transmitter. ...


Chris

 

[ChrisViperM]

Ok thought I had you then lost it again. How can you run the wkm out of an sbus and then the zenmuse out of the lower channels of another receiver bound to the same tx? By lower channels you do mean 1-8? Because I thought the take home message was the wkm with sbus will only respond to lower channels, so you would have two systems on 1-8. If that was possible I would have all the right gear. I think my solution is to get an rx that can respond to channels 9-14 for the z15. (via standard rx inputs)

Sorry, there seems to be a bit of a confusion: Upper Channels means: channels 1-8
Lower Channels means: channels 9-16


So: Wookong via S-Bus on channels 1-8 on reciever No. 1
Zenmuse via traditional connection on channels 9-16 on receiver No. 2


Sorry for the upper/lower channel confusion, but that's how it is stated in a lot of manuals......


Chris

 

[maxwelltub]

Oh ok, I am the confused one. Thanks very much for all your help. If you are ever in Philadelphia I'll buy you a beer.

Sorry, there seems to be a bit of a confusion: Upper Channels means: channels 1-8
Lower Channels means: channels 9-16


So: Wookong via S-Bus on channels 1-8 on reciever No. 1
Zenmuse via traditional connection on channels 9-16 on receiver No. 2


Sorry for the upper/lower channel confusion, but that's how it is stated in a lot of manuals......


Chris

 

[ChrisViperM]

Oh ok, I am the confused one. Thanks very much for all your help. If you are ever in Philadelphia I'll buy you a beer.

You bet I'll take that offer.......:tennis:

Let's just hear any now and then how you get along with this...


Cheers

Chris

 

[maxwelltub]

Ya I ordered Frsky TFR8S, For now I just disengaged x2 and x3 on the wkm and used 5,6,and 8 for the Zenmuse. Thanks again.

 

[rameshtahlan]

Chris,
thanks a ton.
This is going to be exciting. Cant wait to get back home to my hobby shop to put it all together.
Its just great when the line between hobby and profession merge. I am thoroughly enjoying it
I was a fighter pilot ,, flew Jaguars, then after air force tenure. decided to just enjoy the hobby.
and now i realise i am getting into a second profession
thank to my friends who see what i do due to facebook
they have taken me on to do AP work for them
and that is the reason i have gone into a pro system like the CineStar cam mount with Radians
And that is the reason why i write very lengthy sentences when i ask a question
hope all u guys will bear with me.
Chris.. i got the connections figured. quite straight forward
but just confirm what i have written below ____
i can daisy chain all Radians the very first time out of the box
S Bus goes to first Radian which is Pan
and hook up to PC
the software will recognise the pan, roll and tilt Radians on its own
i have to just click on Pan tab first, feed in all the channels etc,
click on Write
and repeat it again for Tilt and then Pan
And thanks for everything
regards
Ramesh

 

[ChrisViperM]

Chris,
thanks a ton.

I was a fighter pilot ,, flew Jaguars, then after air force tenure. decided to just enjoy the hobby.
and now i realise i am getting into a second profession

....looks like it's easier to fly fighter jets than Multirotors.......:tennis:

Since I own a set of Radians, but never used them so far, I am not an expert with the channel assignement, but the way you described it looks ok to me.
....and don't worry about asking questions....

Incase you run into a serious problem and don't find an answer here, try to ask directly at the Freefly Radian forum: http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?forums/radian.23/

This might be of interest for you: http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/radian-and-sbus.265/

In the meantime I wish you good luck with your set-up........may the Gods of the Sky be with you


Chris

 

[rameshtahlan]

Chris,
thanks for all the best wishes
i tried the Radian Forum
but unfortunately no one has tried what i am trying to do which is in a ONE pilot operation to have control of multicopter and Radians through S Bus using a SINGLE receiver.
so could not get much help
So far it appears that i am the only crazy guy attempting it.. or if some one has done it... well.... its not there on any forum ...
I tried some other forum also.. .with no luck
this is the only forum where the discussion is moving forward logicallly
So i would be back home by sunday or monday
and get straight to my hobby room.
and get going on the set up the way u have explained
many thanks
Ramesh

 

[ChrisViperM]

Cool...let's just hear how you make progress


Chris

 

[olof]

I gave up on the idea of 1 radio to control both Zenmuse and S800 after starting down that route, and consulting with my dealer, he is exchanging the parts. It can be done but you need a lot of Sbus parts and a lot of programming including changing the channels on the Sbus hub. And it is not quick and easy to change to a 2 person setup, this is a drawback for me at least., the price difference is negligible, about $200.00.

I am getting another Fatuba to run the Zenmuse. It will be much easier to get smooth moves with the gimbal and you can use all the control options, I have the 5.8ghz video down link and the iOSD as well and those can be controlled from the TX as well. So in my case it just makes more sense to use 2 radios. I found it very hard to use the sliders to move the camera and hit center to stop movement of the gimbal, and I don't want to use switches for this, I want to be able to easily control and ramp the speed of the pan/tilt/rolls.

I will be building a compact mount for the RX, 9" monitor and Zenmuse control TX, that can be in front of you while flying solo or even mounted to your waist. This also makes it easy if you do want to use 2 person shooting. I will post photos once it is set up.

It would be great to have a single controller that was compact, and had a 3rd joystick (and a centering slider for roll) for the gimbal and a 4-5" monitor built in (or snap on/off mount), and it would need 18 channels or more. Maybe a future project I will take on.

What I plan initially is a version of this just using 2 Fatubas mounted together. It is really just a bracket to hold these parts and a shoulder harness for it, where you can easily detach the Futaba that controls the S800, for 2 person use. And a stand for the Zenmuse controller and monitor part of the rig.

Just my nickel.

 

[BorisS]

hi nickel you have to stay with futuba ? with jeti ppm instead of sbus its possible !

Boris

Switch on a second jeti radio and control the zenmuse or all from one radio.

Two receiver on the copter not connected to each other. You can freely assign which channel should do what on each RX.

 

[PeterLester]

Olof..... DJI also sells the 900Mhz and the 2.4Ghz Ground Control Station which emulates existing RC radio systems.... It is quite possible that these GCS's are able to simultaneously control your MR as well as your Zenmuse...... if not, it is just a matter of them completing the software programming to accomodate Zenmuse.... The 900 Mhz will provide extra long range around 15 km.

From the top of your state's Mt. Washington you would likely have a much longer range and lot's more air time if you plan for a remote valley landing.

 

[olof]

Boris, I like the setup, seems like a good start.
I take it this is the model you are using:
http://jetimodel.com/index.php?page=product&id=252

US store that sells it:
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-duplex-radios.aspx

Two Futabas with receivers cost about $900.00. And you get 4 sticks and lots of switches. True no telemetry but the iOSD gives you that. And I use a separate battery monitor with individual cel telemetry and alarm.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you control the gimbal smoothly? I know this was just a test flight, but in the video the pans were pretty abrupt, I like to ease into and out of pans, same with tilts or rolls. Can you assign them to a joystick?

What I am looking for in an ideal world would be 2 sticks for the Heli and 1 for the Gimbal pan/tilt (auto centering when you let go), and then a single axis stick/slider for the roll (also auto centering).

 

[olof]

Olof..... DJI also sells the 900Mhz and the 2.4Ghz Ground Control Station which emulates existing RC radio systems.... It is quite possible that these GCS's are able to simultaneously control your MR as well as your Zenmuse...... if not, it is just a matter of them completing the software programming to accomodate Zenmuse.... The 900 Mhz will provide extra long range around 15 km.

From the top of your state's Mt. Washington you would likely have a much longer range and lot's more air time if you plan for a remote valley landing.

Peter, check the webcam in my office:
http://www.westsidestudios.com/KEYcam/WaveWEBcam.html

It points at Mt Washington. I have actually shot a lot up there in 120mph wind even. Not with a RC heli though. I have shot up there with a full scale JetRanger and Tyler mount several times. The worst part about Mt Wash is all the RF up there, not to mention the wind max recorded wind was 231mph, over a hundred days a year with hurricane force winds.

Current conditions:


Mostly Cloudy and Windy
-6°F
-21°C

• Humidity18%
• Wind SpeedNW 59 mph
• BarometerNA
• Dewpoint-38°F (-39°C)
• Visibility110.00 mi
• Wind Chill-42°F (-41°C)

Last Update on 25 Jan 10:55 am EST


Current conditions at
Mount Washington (KMWN)
Lat: 44.28 Lon: -71.3 Elev: 6266ft.






Both TV and a lot of military stuff. It is hard just to get a clean recording on the ground up there in your camera. I think there are a few spots there where you could microwave an egg in the open air even today.

I have thought about the ground station setup, maybe I will go for it in a while.

 

[PeterLester]

Olof,
Yes, I was on top of that mountain back in the late 60's!!! The peak jut's into the jetstream. Could hardly stand up because of the wind.
Not the best launch site for Hang-gliding unless intentions are to get a free trip to Europe!

I just got my new serial number so that I can get my DJI Ground Control Station operating with the LK900 (DL900Mhz) and am starting out with the GoPro3 Black edition.....then work my way up from there gradually........ maybe a Red Epic someday!!!! in my dreams!

 

[maxwelltub]

The idea of one person using two transmitters just seems silly to me. That TX Boris has is awesome, but not in my budget... yet. For single operator I really dont intend to use anything but the Tilt, shutter, and mode functions, however I want to maintain full use of X2 and X3 channels on the wkm. I'm going with the idea Chris suggested as it seems to be simple and easy to add on another transmitter. Any moves that would require more input to the gimbal would be a separate designated camera operator. Good discussion.

 

[BorisS]

Boris, I like the setup, seems like a good start.
I take it this is the model you are using:
http://jetimodel.com/index.php?page=product&id=252

US store that sells it:
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-duplex-radios.aspx

Two Futabas with receivers cost about $900.00. And you get 4 sticks and lots of switches. True no telemetry but the iOSD gives you that. And I use a separate battery monitor with individual cel telemetry and alarm.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you control the gimbal smoothly? I know this was just a test flight, but in the video the pans were pretty abrupt, I like to ease into and out of pans, same with tilts or rolls. Can you assign them to a joystick?

What I am looking for in an ideal world would be 2 sticks for the Heli and 1 for the Gimbal pan/tilt (auto centering when you let go), and then a single axis stick/slider for the roll (also auto centering).

not sure which video you are looking at. But smoothly is only possible in a two man op with the zenmuse or whatever gimbal controlled over the sticks with probably some expo/dual rate on it. One man op will always be a compromise or either not being able to control the gimbal to its fullest or giving up control over the copter
and having some autonomous flight routines as assisting you.


This is possible with the jeti setup:

View attachment 9208

But it will stay a compromise in how smooth you can control the gimbal if you are using one radio, if you don't hack in another stick etc. which is doable but than again you only have two hands and somehow have to keep the bird in control. So quality will only be possible in a two man op. No matter which hardware wise
setups one can come up with. You will need two human heads to process it all and to deliver quality ! I personally cant keep the copter under control and moving object in the cam and do this all safely and with quality in the cam movement !

This it what I would love to do and could work at certain situations.

He is controlling the quad with the built in gyros in the DS 16. Now if you can take a bird up put it in GPS hold, flick a switch and start to control the bird via the gyros forward back left right etc ( dynamic GPS) and the stick become free to control the gimbals that could be a nice way. Flich the switch back the sticks are in control of the copter again and fly the bird back or reposition etc.

Boris

 

[ChrisViperM]

Boris, I like the setup, seems like a good start.
I take it this is the model you are using:
http://jetimodel.com/index.php?page=product&id=252

US store that sells it:
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-duplex-radios.aspx

Two Futabas with receivers cost about $900.00. And you get 4 sticks and lots of switches. True no telemetry but the iOSD gives you that. And I use a separate battery monitor with individual cel telemetry and alarm.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you control the gimbal smoothly? I know this was just a test flight, but in the video the pans were pretty abrupt, I like to ease into and out of pans, same with tilts or rolls. Can you assign them to a joystick?

What I am looking for in an ideal world would be 2 sticks for the Heli and 1 for the Gimbal pan/tilt (auto centering when you let go), and then a single axis stick/slider for the roll (also auto centering).

The main reason I went with two receivers was that I wanted to be able to take the S800 apart for traveling without always fiddling with ay bunch of cables....if you have just one receiver, you can either mount it on the S800 or the Zen, but in both cases the fiddling stays the same. Apart from that you won't find a single receiver - regardless which system) which can give you all channels needed, unless you can use S-Bus (or similar) . The main problem is the lack of ability to programm/assign the S-Bus channels in the Zenmus....it HAS TO HAVE channels 1-8, and the same goes for the WooKong/Naza. Stupid thing from DJI, since the ammount of components you can hook to a S-Bus system is only limited by the channels you have avalible on your transmitter. Maybe they will come up with a firmware-based solution.
The only 14-channel receiver I could find was the FUTABA R-6014 HS, but there is no S-Bus and you only get 14 channels...http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...R6014HS_14_Channel_2_4GHz_FASST_Receiver.html

The cheapes set-up (Futaba based) for a one man/two man operation:

1x FrSKY TFR4 SB 3/18 channels for WooKong (S-Bus) http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...h_2_4Ghz_S_BUS_Receiver_FASST_Compatible.html

1x FUTABA R-7008 SB (via traditional connectors) http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXBWGP&P=8

1x FUTABA WRT-7 wireless trainer system (or just a plain trainer cable) http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=1203


Regardless how you hook it up, all axis on the Zenmuse can be moved super smooth, it only depends on the stick imput....if you move the stick only 1mm, the pan/roll/tilt starts to move very slowly, the more stick you give, the faster it moves. I got best results to use a slider (can even be the trim slider since you don't need them), if you want it even slower, you put some EXPO on the input stick/slider.

The FUTABA 8FGA Super doesn't have Telemetry (there are Telemetrie modules avalible ) but you can ditch Futaba telemetrie...much too expensive and bulky telemetrie modules. If you use FPV, any cheap OSD system can give you more info for a fraction of the price.

You can control the Zenmuse with a Joystick (and programm it to self centering) : http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=486 Read the manual on that page, it tells you what and how you can do it.

You could even fly the S800 AND operate the ZEN, but there is a limit with how many channels you can use. The good thing is that you don't need any PC hooked up (like in a few alternative systems or the DJI Ground Station) to fly. It get's hooked to the trainer port.

Chris