MadMonkey
Bane of G10
Same. I'm REALLY interested to see how these are going to work out with cheaper gimbals...
Phobotic Centerpiece Brushless Gimbal Controller
- Thread starter SamurAchzar
- Start date
Same. I'm REALLY interested to see how these are going to work out with cheaper gimbals...
SamurAchzar
Member
Which one, for example?
Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
Samur, i saw on the other thread that you were not testing/competing with the zenmuse for gopro market. Are you confident that it would handle a light camera as well as the mid to heavier camera testing you've been doing? Since it has the ability to store multiple configurations (I thought I read 5), does this mean that the auto tune is recalled with a saved preset? Or is another auto tune needed?
thanks.
SamurAchzar
Member
Light cameras are fine, such as this RX100 (240g):
We're not testing with a GoPro because at the level we're at, right now, all GoPro footage would look flawless (or very close to). It's a combination of a very short focal length with the lens curvature, that masks horizon and stabilization problems very well. We'll make some new GoPro videos later probably, but we don't expect GoPro to be our primary market (although the GoPro footage this controller produces looks really cool).
As for the configuration banks, each one is completely independent. You can autotune on one, then autotune a different camera on the other and just switch between them; or you could autotune on one, copy the settings over to the second and tweak that one.
We're not testing with a GoPro because at the level we're at, right now, all GoPro footage would look flawless (or very close to). It's a combination of a very short focal length with the lens curvature, that masks horizon and stabilization problems very well. We'll make some new GoPro videos later probably, but we don't expect GoPro to be our primary market (although the GoPro footage this controller produces looks really cool).
As for the configuration banks, each one is completely independent. You can autotune on one, then autotune a different camera on the other and just switch between them; or you could autotune on one, copy the settings over to the second and tweak that one.
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Motopreserve
Drone Enthusiast
Makes sense. Seems the gopro market is probably a bit saturated. I'm sure if yours is working with the larger cameras, an appropriate gopro gimbal should be no sweat.
Kudos on being able to switch between the banks. Obviously camera mounting may change a hair and require retune. But just knowing that a simple switch may be made simpler is a huge plus.
is is it ever going to be possible to hook a Bluetooth module to the basic CP?
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SamurAchzar
Member
BT can't be added to the CP.
We haven't decided the direction of the Bluetooth in this system yet. BT is present on the HV but currently it's not activated. We have some plans for the future though, good plans involving wireless connectivity.
We haven't decided the direction of the Bluetooth in this system yet. BT is present on the HV but currently it's not activated. We have some plans for the future though, good plans involving wireless connectivity.
Subscribed,
You mentioned being able to tune the amount of accelerometer vs gyro being used. The AM boards have this ability as well, as you probably know but, on the AM boards if you give the gyros as much authority as possible the accelerometers still have too much leverage. If the camera is pointing straight ahead and you take off flying sideways the horizon will still roll off. I would like to have the ability to really turn down the accelerometers. The professional aerial video guys could care less if the mount starts drifting off after 15 minutes. If the mount can manage 7 to 8 minutes with no drift and suffer very little roll off due to fast sideways flight and climbing banking turns we would sell our first born kids to get one. I do not have kids so I can say that! I have been flying one of the Ronin gimbals for the past week and that gimbal would probably sit on it's stand for two months powered up and not drift, but that is not necessarily a good thing. When you take off flying sideways, camera sideways, it will roll off pretty good. The only saving grace is that the camera operator does have control of the roll axis, but manually flying the roll axis requires a VERY skilled camera mount operator.
I will have to order one of these controllers and give it a try. I love the performance I get from the 32 bit AM. It will be very interesting to see how this controller stacks up.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
You mentioned being able to tune the amount of accelerometer vs gyro being used. The AM boards have this ability as well, as you probably know but, on the AM boards if you give the gyros as much authority as possible the accelerometers still have too much leverage. If the camera is pointing straight ahead and you take off flying sideways the horizon will still roll off. I would like to have the ability to really turn down the accelerometers. The professional aerial video guys could care less if the mount starts drifting off after 15 minutes. If the mount can manage 7 to 8 minutes with no drift and suffer very little roll off due to fast sideways flight and climbing banking turns we would sell our first born kids to get one. I do not have kids so I can say that! I have been flying one of the Ronin gimbals for the past week and that gimbal would probably sit on it's stand for two months powered up and not drift, but that is not necessarily a good thing. When you take off flying sideways, camera sideways, it will roll off pretty good. The only saving grace is that the camera operator does have control of the roll axis, but manually flying the roll axis requires a VERY skilled camera mount operator.
I will have to order one of these controllers and give it a try. I love the performance I get from the 32 bit AM. It will be very interesting to see how this controller stacks up.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
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SamurAchzar
Member
Wayne, I hear you. We have invested a lot of effort on the IMU side to prevent drift. It is not perfect (no system in this market is, including DJI and Freefly) but it is excellent and heaps above what you're used to. The IMU is actually temperature controlled to avoid this drift you're talking about - we have a heater element which keeps the gyro at a steady temperature no matter what the conditions are. There are a few more tricks, but this is the one we can't hide so we might as well tell everyone 
Even without spending too much time getting the IMU parameters perfect it's already very very good. There are several things that are going to happen from here:
1. Further tweaks of the IMU parameters based on customer feedback. That should make everything much more stable still (we intentionally left too much accelerometer right now, to cover all bases, but it will go down with time)
2. Activation of the IMU's compass (it's a 9 axis unit) which should get drift to about zero
3. Additional enhancements by using the 2nd optional IMU (standard on the CPHV)
4. Finally, we have our professional IMU, called Serenity, in development. It's a real cutting edge unit, using the best stuff a civilian can buy. It's backwards compatible to the Centerpiece, so it'll be a simple upgrade. We expect it to be in the market in about 6-7 months, and with testers in 4.5 months.
Make no mistakes, we're going after the professional market in full force. We leave the $200 market alone.
It doesn't end with the IMU either, we spent a lot of time on both the R/C control and the follow mode algorithms to create a very cinematic system. You'll understand when you try it.
Even without spending too much time getting the IMU parameters perfect it's already very very good. There are several things that are going to happen from here:
1. Further tweaks of the IMU parameters based on customer feedback. That should make everything much more stable still (we intentionally left too much accelerometer right now, to cover all bases, but it will go down with time)
2. Activation of the IMU's compass (it's a 9 axis unit) which should get drift to about zero
3. Additional enhancements by using the 2nd optional IMU (standard on the CPHV)
4. Finally, we have our professional IMU, called Serenity, in development. It's a real cutting edge unit, using the best stuff a civilian can buy. It's backwards compatible to the Centerpiece, so it'll be a simple upgrade. We expect it to be in the market in about 6-7 months, and with testers in 4.5 months.
Make no mistakes, we're going after the professional market in full force. We leave the $200 market alone.
It doesn't end with the IMU either, we spent a lot of time on both the R/C control and the follow mode algorithms to create a very cinematic system. You'll understand when you try it.
Thanks for the reply SamurAchzar. I look forward to trying one soon.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
MadMonkey
Bane of G10
Any, really... I'm just tired of the choices being Movi or DJI to get acceptable video! I'm at the point to where we're about to start flying a Ronin in the next few days. Probably get 4 minutes of flight time... :apathy:
I guess I should rephrase... I can't wait to see real-world results because I'm excited
Hi SamurAchzar,
Will we ever see position feedback sensors for each axis like DJI and FreeFly uses on their gimbals? They can get away with much smaller motors than we can with AM based controllers as the motors have much more power around center with feedback sensors.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
Will we ever see position feedback sensors for each axis like DJI and FreeFly uses on their gimbals? They can get away with much smaller motors than we can with AM based controllers as the motors have much more power around center with feedback sensors.
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
SamurAchzar
Member
We didn't implement it because there are simply no gimbal mechanics today that can support it, apart from DJI and Freefly (who have their own controllers, of course).
You'd be surprised at how much torque the driving algorithms of the CP generate. I don't know about Freefly, but I doubt DJI gimbals can compare, and testers report of a 50%-200% increase over the holding torque with their Alexmos setups.
The professional system we're working on will support that (among other features), but we thought of it more as an OEM controller and not something people will buy separately and bolt on, like they would buy a CP.
You'd be surprised at how much torque the driving algorithms of the CP generate. I don't know about Freefly, but I doubt DJI gimbals can compare, and testers report of a 50%-200% increase over the holding torque with their Alexmos setups.
The professional system we're working on will support that (among other features), but we thought of it more as an OEM controller and not something people will buy separately and bolt on, like they would buy a CP.
Hi SamurAchzar,
Thanks for the info. A lot of the gimbals would support it, the problem is the end user would have to retrofit the feed back sensors to the gimbal, which would open up a whole can of worms. But the professionals among us will do whatever is necessary, including spending quite a bit of money to be able to fly at 40 mph in 25 to 30 mph gusting winds with a Red Epic in the mount and have perfectly stable footage with a 100mm lens.
The professional system you speak of sounds interesting. When will you be able to share details?
Thanks for answering all the questions,
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
Thanks for the info. A lot of the gimbals would support it, the problem is the end user would have to retrofit the feed back sensors to the gimbal, which would open up a whole can of worms. But the professionals among us will do whatever is necessary, including spending quite a bit of money to be able to fly at 40 mph in 25 to 30 mph gusting winds with a Red Epic in the mount and have perfectly stable footage with a 100mm lens.
The professional system you speak of sounds interesting. When will you be able to share details?
Thanks for answering all the questions,
Wayne Mann
www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
SamurAchzar
Member
You understand it exactly. You can't count on a user to fit an encoder; heck, even DJI has had problems fitting theirs ever since they stopped using Maxon motors and opted for their own versions instead.
Our goal is precisely 100mm+ usable footage in air, without a need for post stabilization.
Anyway, encoders don't make or break a gimbal. It's just another advantage, but there are other important variables we can optimize even on normal mechanics (and we do that).
We have cooperation with two serious gimbal manufacturers to bring the new system to the market. It should be a technological leap compared to what there is today. I can't share too many details yet, but this is something we work on as our resources allow (top priority is still to support and enhance the "prosumer" CP, it has a bright future ahead and lots of stuff planned).
Half of the new system is the Serenity IMU which will be completely compatible with the current Centerpiece/Centerpiece HV.
SamurAchzar
Member
That's when I ship them to TPPacks, it'll be there in 2-3 days.
SamurAchzar
Member
Funny, the Legacy happens to be our "go-to" airborne gimbal. We run it all the time. It works great: https://vimeo.com/99953282
This is a video out of testing (bad firmware and all, especially the horizon which has nothing to do with the performance on the release versions). It should perform significantly better than in that video - but it's good even there. And that's on a 42mm effective BMPCC setup, it should be really smooth on a 24mm effective like most GH setups are (12mm x 2.0 crop factor).