Oh great... is this true? (registration)

[Pumpkinguy]

My question still stands.....
So I register everything ....
I go down to the end of the Cleveland Hopkins main runways and fly around causing a near aerial collision.
I get scared... land put it into my car and drive away before the authorities reach me......
How will the identify me?
"white" "small" "quadcoper" with "Green & Red flashing lights"?

Maybe every uav over a certain weight will need (as part of the registration process will "require") a transponder. That is the only way I can see them enforcing anything.

 

[Old Man]

Guys,

I work in the field that's driving the miniaturized transponder groups and I can say that as of now there's nothing available that we can afford, unless you feel ~3500.00/ unit before peripherals is affordable. They are also power hogs. They have to be to broadcast with the ranges ATC needs to see them. None of the previous addresses discrete transponder codes or altitude reporting. It's available in small packages, but it ain't cheap. I use them now in other stuff. Sage Tech makes some of the smallest out there, including ADS-B types, where the price goes up again. They will fit, but at an unaffordable cost in $$ and electrical power.

 

[Bartman]

even if you have the electric power available can the current generation electronics function with all of that RF power being beamed from onboard the aircraft?

 

[scotth]

I didn't see the newser but was there any mention of user/registration fees? Since we know the FAA is broke, it occurs to me that this may be their way of funding the UAS office, riding on the notion of air safety.

 

[Bartman]

I didn't see the newser but was there any mention of user/registration fees? Since we know the FAA is broke, it occurs to me that this may be their way of funding the UAS office, riding on the notion of air safety.

i thought that that went without saying?!!? lol

 

[scotth]

i thought that that went without saying?!!? lol

Ha. I'm thinking 10 bucks times a million under the Christmas tree. Which I'm all for if I can get someone to issue a COA in less than 60 business days.

 

[Old Man]

"Because your flying in FAA controlled airspace. Be serious, if your not breaking any rules you have absolutely nothing to worry about. This is just going to weed out all the bad apples."



That kind of like getting pulled over by a cop for no reason you can discern, he asks to search your car, but since you weren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

But hey, I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you BTW, after you land contact ground frequency for a telephone number you need to call.......

 

[Old Man]

Note how they might get around Part 336 and the prohibition from regulating model aircraft. Registration isn't regulation. The AMA has to be crapping bricks.

 

[Vermiform]

They'd also starve to death, without OUR tax money keeping them alive.

Most would drown if you left them outside standing in the rain unsupervised.

 

[Old Man]

even if you have the electric power available can the current generation electronics function with all of that RF power being beamed from onboard the aircraft?

Not without a lot of RF testing and shielding. That's a fact. Another kicker. If a transponder, functioning perfectly in sUAS with a type certificate and tail numbers, is not manufactured by an FAA recognized and certified manufacturer, and installed by an FAA certified technician, they'll make you shut it off in flight, even when flying in U.S. airspace. Is true.

 

[MadMonkey]

So much for hoping this was a conspiracy. I guess now we're just working on reducing the damage done to the hobby

 

[ProfEngr]

"Because your flying in FAA controlled airspace. Be serious, if your not breaking any rules you have absolutely nothing to worry about. This is just going to weed out all the bad apples."



That kind of like getting pulled over by a cop for no reason you can discern, he asks to search your car, but since you weren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

But hey, I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you BTW, after you land contact ground frequency for a telephone number you need to call.......

Yep, the tired, old adage of "if you're not doing anything wrong, what's the problem with [insert civil rights violation here]".

 

[Old Man]

Wow, this is a real conspiracy thread already. Well I think registration is not a matter of if but when- they are probably going to implement it in Europe too. It will only be a bad thing if implemented badly but done well it could be what the industry needs because we must have acceptance by the general public if we are to have a future. Registration if nothing else creates accountability. Our biggest issue in UK regarding enforcement is tracking down those that break the law. Registration done well wont guarantee traceability but it will help. More importantly it will make the dumb idiots that like to fly over airports and the like think twice before doing it for fun. Of course it wont stop the determined but it only has to work once and it has been worth it. So what negatives does it cause to me? Cant think of one rational thing apart from perhaps a small fee (if implemented well which I will re-iterate again!).

So what would well implemented look like? Well here is a thought:

Guy walks into a shop or orders drone online.
Takes drone home and it doesnt start
Now he actually gets the manual out to see what might be wrong at the same time as realizing their battery is not actually charged.
Sees that in order to work it needs plugging into a computer.
Puts battery on charge and plugs in FC to computer
Computer asks for name and address (registration we do each and every time we buy something on line so hardly and issue I would have thought)
This is the important bit, the registration website now has the chance to educate the user on what the basic rules are and safe use. At this stage the battery may be 30% charged.
Spends 10 minutes going through the educational piece (this is my opinion is one of the biggest issues with those doing dumb things- just ignorance, so this helps mitigate the ignorance)
Battery now nearly charged
Registration is complete and an enabling code is sent to FC.
Waits for battery to complete charging.
Data base now has a name and address and confirmation that the user is educated to a basic level.
Goes and flies.
Decides to sell drone after some great times.
De-registers
FC is now inoperative until it is reactivated with new owners details.
Repeat.

This need only be applied to drones that can present a real threat to other air users or the public. Lets say anything over 250 class or maybe anything over a kg or something like that.

Now I realise I have probably just lit the blue touch paper but I just cant see any real harm this would do but I can see what good this would do. So, my chest is now open and waiting for the tirade of verbal bullets to hit it!

Carapau,

In the above post you provided some good examples of how things could work, and should work, However, thus far the manufacturers and points of sale appear to be loathe to issue anything that mandates a buyer become even minimally cognizant of operation and safe use prior to using the product. I doubt government intervention would change that because those same entities that have thus far avoided doing anything that might slow down a purchase decision will suddenly change their perspective.

I fully agree that end user education is the foundation for safe and responsible operations but those providing the product are only concerned with the sale, which is why they would easily go along with registration. A registration process would be minimally restrictive to their current marketing practices but ultimately do nothing to promote safe ops.

The AMA has been more or less functionally useless with regard to multirotors and the Small UAV Coalition still focuses on concerns of the manufacturers with regard to assuring sales capability.

 

[sledge57]

One question, maybe I missed it, but what exactly is "National Airspace" everything above a foot AGL, or what?

 

[Bartman]

i'm afraid that when the FAA successfully appealed the definition of "Aircraft" and won they made anyplace an "Aircraft" can fly navigable airspace, including indoors. the way it is now, if you're flying something it's an aircraft and the Federal Aviation Regulations apply. Where you're flying it is navigable airspace and so probably part of the national airspace system.

i may be wrong but this is how i understand it to be.

 

[sledge57]

i'm afraid that when the FAA successfully appealed the definition of "Aircraft" and won they made anyplace an "Aircraft" can fly navigable airspace, including indoors. the way it is now, if you're flying something it's an aircraft and the Federal Aviation Regulations apply. Where you're flying it is navigable airspace and so probably part of the national airspace system.

i may be wrong but this is how i understand it to be.

Well lets see, they didn't say "drones" specifically, I believe it was "unmanned air craft" or what ever, so does this mean they intend to register the possibly millions of RC planes also?

After all I can be just as much a hazard with an rc plane as my M.R. God only knows how high my 120" sailplane has been, over 400' I'll bet.

Just like our government to go and waste a bunch of money they don't have in a knee jerk reaction to something....

 

[Old Man]

The FAA sort of left open that which will or will not be made to register. There's still the issue of why register if such registration fails to provide a means to track while airborne? By the omission they are telling us more regulation and requirements are forthcoming. This is the tip of the iceberg.

Bart,

I'm still under the impression that a property owner holds use control of the airspace in and above their property up to a certain level. That may be between 200' and 400' AGL, IRRC.

 

[Vermiform]

I'd be willing to bet the AMA pushes for only registering birds with a GPS since those are the ones causing all of the problems. This would protect their core base of hobbyists that fly traditional fixed wing and also their new revenue stream of FPV racing drones. One of the most popular FPV racing orgs is MultiGP and in order to participate you have to be a member of AMA.

Of course they will be hanging commercial operators out to dry, and although many of us are hobbyists as well, we're used to getting **** on already.

 

[fltundra]

Uncontrolled Airspace
Class G Airspace
Uncontrolled airspace or Class G airspace is the portion of
the airspace that has not been designated as Class A, B, C,
D, or E. It is therefore designated uncontrolled airspace.
Class G airspace extends from the surface to the base of the
overlying Class E airspace. Although ATC has no authority
or responsibility to control air traffic, pilots should remember
there are visual flight rules (VFR) minimums which apply
to Class G airspace.

The FAA does not control the airspace inside my warehouse.

 

[Old Man]

I'd be willing to bet the AMA pushes for only registering birds with a GPS since those are the ones causing all of the problems. This would protect their core base of hobbyists that fly traditional fixed wing and also their new revenue stream of FPV racing drones. One of the most popular FPV racing orgs is MultiGP and in order to participate you have to be a member of AMA.

Of course they will be hanging commercial operators out to dry, and although many of us are hobbyists as well, we're used to getting **** on already.

Commercial operators are already required to register their aircraft. It's a requirement in a 333 exemption. If you operate commercially you are supposed to possess a 333 exemption. If you are operating commercially without an exemption you are operating illegally with an illegal aircraft.

It just branches out exponentially from there.