Need Ideas for a Heavy Lift Flight Control System

Mojave

Mojave

Member
Hey everyone - I had a bad crash about a week ago during the testing phase of my heavy lift hexacopter. I intend on disassembling the copter and check the software and hardware to try to figure out if it was operator error or a component problem, I was using an A2 FC. While I make these determinations I would like advice from the community for ideas for heavy lift flight control systems other than an A2. By heavy lift I mean HexaCrafter 1100L, U7 490kV motors, CF 18x6.1 props to lift a Canon 5DII camera with corresponding gimbal.

The contenders would be Super-X, WooKong-M, maybe a Gemini controller - I am open to options that have worked well for others.
 

H

hunter_heli

New Member
Hi Mojave

Really sorry to hear about your crash. I wouldn't recommend A2's both personally and from my usual suppliers. I have built 2 Vulcan Mantis frames (Octo 8 and Y6) recently. On the Y6 I was supplied an A2 and couldn't even get it to talk to the assistant software so luckily swapped it out for a WKM. The Wookong's have the advantage that the firmware and hardware are 'mature' and both of these builds have been 'plug and play' for me! DJI won't admit to there being something wrong with the A2, although they are trying to sell them off cheap (the latest offer with the new S900 for example). Hope this helps

Ian
 


Mojave

Mojave

Member
I used the matching ESCs for the Tiger Motor 490kV U7s, Tiger Motor T80A Electronic Speed Controllers - I am confident it was not a motor or ESC issue. I do not know the nature of the crash as stated above; but I am going to rebuild and I figured that I would take this opportunity use another flight control system. I am hoping to get some input from forum participants on their favorite heavy lift systems.
 


stevemaller

stevemaller

Heavy Lifter
Without casting undue negativity on the DJI A2, I would say that there are a lot of stories lately about crashes with it, and I'm not sure if that'd inspire confidence.

As for me, I am a devotee of Mikrokopter electronics. Their 2.5 flight and 2.1 nav controls are really superb, and work just fine with the T-motor ESCs (although you lose some of their data reporting stuff). MK are very responsive about support, and there's a devoted community of folks using them for very high end copters. The discussions appear in numerous places, and are easy to find on Google (some are on other forums, and I'll not post a link here).

I have hundreds of flights on my Cinestar and custom X8 copters, and would not use any other system.
 

Remoteworks

Remoteworks

Member
Mojave said:
Hey everyone - I had a bad crash about a week ago during the testing phase of my heavy lift hexacopter. I intend on disassembling the copter and check the software and hardware to try to figure out if it was operator error or a component problem, I was using an A2 FC. While I make these determinations I would like advice from the community for ideas for heavy lift flight control systems other than an A2. By heavy lift I mean HexaCrafter 1100L, U7 490kV motors, CF 18x6.1 props to lift a Canon 5DII camera with corresponding gimbal.

The contenders would be Super-X, WooKong-M, maybe a Gemini controller - I am open to options that have worked well for others.
Click to expand...

Align fc is around the corner < 3months. I would wait and see how it performs
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Align-Corporation/194493419543
 
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kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
i do but it wasn't it's fault. We fly 3 of them now

25mph

 
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Mojave

Mojave

Member
Mojave said:
The contenders would be Super-X, WooKong-M, maybe a Gemini controller - I am open to options that have worked well for others.
Click to expand...

I did not realize there was a thread here: http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?21702-Which-flight-controller-for-S900-A2-or-Wookong with a similar question. I was hoping to hear a bit more about the Gemini, I made inquiries of users but to no avail. When I planned on getting the A2 at the beginning of the year it was going to be the best yet; and I know of folks that have had good luck with it. I don't want to start on the 'next best' again - at this time.

Since I have three DJI systems (2 Naza's and an A2). I think I want an FC that is different and has been around for a while; good support would be nice as well. I think I'd like to look at the MK system but I am leaning toward the SuperX.

Thanks for the input.
 

kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
forum support for superX is superb, but the company doesn't respond much more than dji, so just be aware. Drew does what he can supporting the sales problems pretty well, but after that your listening to users for tech support. The osd is pretty good, alot like osd markII but you don't need it to get the logging, that is built into superX itself.

I don't think mk would support the u7's, i'd look for one that did if you decide that route to make sure it's working for them, those motors are super dependant on them esc for some reason
 

F

fpmurphy

Member
Mojave said:
I did not realize there was a thread here: http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?21702-Which-flight-controller-for-S900-A2-or-Wookong with a similar question. I was hoping to hear a bit more about the Gemini, I made inquiries of users but to no avail. When I planned on getting the A2 at the beginning of the year it was going to be the best yet; and I know of folks that have had good luck with it. I don't want to start on the 'next best' again - at this time.

Since I have three DJI systems (2 Naza's and an A2). I think I want an FC that is different and has been around for a while; good support would be nice as well. I think I'd like to look at the MK system but I am leaning toward the SuperX.

Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking for a FC for an X8 that will be lifting ~20lbs. I'm using KDE motors and ESC's and I've gone through two controllers so far that won't work with the ESC's. Pixhawk and SuperX. Pixhawk won't arm a couple of the motors and SuperX loses sync. I'm also interested in hearing about the Gemini. I feel like I'm almost out of options.
 

kloner

kloner

Aerial DP
did patrick confirm the superX was the cause it was loosing sync?

I'd take a good hard look at the power distribution system
 

F

fpmurphy

Member
Yeah. Xaircraft is still trying to help though (Anthony from XA International is great!).

Chris (KDE Support) said it's because SuperX's refresh rate is only 333hz. Evidently KDE ESC's have problems with <400hz refresh rates. It's something they're looking into, but it's still a long way away. 3DR and KDE didn't really understand why they wouldn't work with the Pixhawk (my simonK esc's work fine).
 


KDE Direct

KDE Direct

KDE Direct, LLC.
fpmurphy said:
Yeah. Xaircraft is still trying to help though (Anthony from XA International is great!).

Chris (KDE Support) said it's because SuperX's refresh rate is only 333hz. Evidently KDE ESC's have problems with <400hz refresh rates. It's something they're looking into, but it's still a long way away. 3DR and KDE didn't really understand why they wouldn't work with the Pixhawk (my simonK esc's work fine).
Click to expand...

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the confusion, some of the information is incorrect and let me help clarify a few things.

The ESCs are indeed compatible with refresh rates below 400Hz, the ESCs are compatible with refresh rates from 50Hz up to 600Hz, with the standard 1520us widths Flight Controllers current use allowing up to 495Hz. The KDE Direct XF ESCs can push higher frequencies (up to 600Hz), but still waiting on a flight-controller than can take advantage of this and change down to 760us or alternate bands, something future technologies will bring.

Anyways, long story short - there does not appear to be a verified synchronization issue with the SuperX equipment, and it's being used by various customers worldwide. Freddie did see an issue with his setup, but we haven't confirmed there is a compatibility issue and there could be another issue occurring (such as amperage-limitation from the PDB). Does anyone have a direct contact at XA that I can speak with concerning their hardware?

We've been in discussions with 3DRobotics concerning their hardware and they are using our equipment on their machines, so I'll find out more where they are at with their control algorithm. The problem with the Pixhawk appears to be in their negative-ground, and it's not with the KDE Direct ESC, but with compatibility with true opto-isolation. The KDE Direct XF series are true opto-isolated to the control leads to prevent noise entering the controller and as such, the flight-controller needs to be designed to handle this. There are simple work-arounds, but I'll check in with them and find out the current plans moving forward with their hardware.
 

F

fpmurphy

Member
Thanks for the update! You guys have been really helpful through this. My end goal is to lift ~$40k worth of camera equipment and I'm pretty set into the KDE ESC/Motor combo. Their stuff is easily the smoothest/most well built that I've used. I've just had bad luck on the flight controller end of things.


KDE Direct said:
Hey Guys,

Sorry about the confusion, some of the information is incorrect and let me help clarify a few things.

The ESCs are indeed compatible with refresh rates below 400Hz, the ESCs are compatible with refresh rates from 50Hz up to 600Hz, with the standard 1520us widths Flight Controllers current use allowing up to 495Hz. The KDE Direct XF ESCs can push higher frequencies (up to 600Hz), but still waiting on a flight-controller than can take advantage of this and change down to 760us or alternate bands, something future technologies will bring.

Anyways, long story short - there does not appear to be a verified synchronization issue with the SuperX equipment, and it's being used by various customers worldwide. Freddie did see an issue with his setup, but we haven't confirmed there is a compatibility issue and there could be another issue occurring (such as amperage-limitation from the PDB). Does anyone have a direct contact at XA that I can speak with concerning their hardware?

We've been in discussions with 3DRobotics concerning their hardware and they are using our equipment on their machines, so I'll find out more where they are at with their control algorithm. The problem with the Pixhawk appears to be in their negative-ground, and it's not with the KDE Direct ESC, but with compatibility with true opto-isolation. The KDE Direct XF series are true opto-isolated to the control leads to prevent noise entering the controller and as such, the flight-controller needs to be designed to handle this. There are simple work-arounds, but I'll check in with them and find out the current plans moving forward with their hardware.
Click to expand...
 

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